RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2011 Afternoon all, Can anyone hint on whether the Farish or Dapol 66 is the better product? I am thinking in terms of accuracy and also performance. I have the Farish but am pondering taking a Dapol one too, so would be keen to hear others experiences. Its not intended to be a controversial topic - just some constructive criticisms. Many thanks in advance, Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercig studios Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Hi Pete Couple of things to note is that the Dapol batches have 2/3 different chassis designs depending on how old the batch is. The below assessment is based on the latest batches that have the 'super creep' chassis although just to further confuse you some of the later batches don't have the high definition bogie side frames but can be bought as spares from Dapol. I think you will find a pretty much 50/50 split on this as there is not much in it between the two, for what it's worth here is my evaluation Dapol Better looks.... particularly the bogies where there is no gap between the bogies and underframe and have the prototypical chunky look of a 66... the Farish ones seem a little slim. Better for DCC as it is DCC ready. Farish Heavier and has better traction Comes with a nice accessory bag for detailing On the whole my vote goes to Dapol but that is because I am more concerned with the look of a loco than the way it performs, so will leave that area to others to discuss. Both are nice locos so I don't think you will be disappointed with either. Hope that helps M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 It depends which particular model/livery you are going for in my opinion, and a lot of personal preference. What looks right to one person, doesn't to another. Farish's decoration tends to be better in colour, lettering and finish. Not sure if I still have a Dapol Freightliner, but will fot one next to a Farish if I do. I tend to make the choice on livery accuracy and price, and run the two makes quite happily side by side, and thats really all there is between them. Being picky, the etched cooler group grill on the roof of the Dapol is a nice touch, but the model one on the Farish doesn't look bad, in fact it looks better than a poorly fitted etch. The bufferbeam is better on the Farish, with coupling hook, pipes etc and a cosmetic fixed baffle plate. Fine detail is nice on both, where one is better, the other is better in another area. Big downside on the Farish is the join between the headlights Mercig mentions the bogies - the original Dapol 4 door models had horrendous bogies very similar to the Lima ones in 4mm, with huge chunks missing. The retooled bogies they've done are a hell of a lot better. As I said earlier, what appeals to one person, won't to another, and personally I feel the Farish bogie frames are better. The Dapol ones fill the space better because they have a representation of the rubber concertina style parts, but in terms of detail appear almost as a cartoon of the real thing to me. The Farish ones are a better shape (perfect match to an overlaid photo) with excellent detail, and I think the "fresh air" look is due to a lack of the rubber concertina bits. Here's a pair of side on pics which highlight the bogies and underframe well - the sand pipes on 66952 are my addition btw Hope this helps you rather than adds to your dilemma Pete! cheers jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 HI All I'm more of a Farish man myself as i dont like the separate handrails on the front as they look to chunky, a case of separate might not be best, and having had both, the farish one run better on the layout at shows. The layout being Law so they do get put through there paces. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 5, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2011 Hope this helps you rather than adds to your dilemma Pete! :blink: Thanks Ian and Jo Excellent critiques...and now I am sitting on the fence. I am after an EWS one so I can represent Moorswater in later times. I have the Farish Freightliner version, but realised just recently that I could squeeze in the EWS version. Hattons have both...the Dapol one is pre weathered with a stag motif, the Farish one not. Decisions Decisions... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 5, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2011 Arran, Thanks also. I have normally been a Farish disciple, but I understand some of the latest Dapol run very well, so I guess it comes down to appearances then... Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The side on shot here http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=31444 shows that this one retains the early style bogies. Dunno how much of a detractor it is to you, but I'm not a fan...it does have the most recent chassis though, so should run nice jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 5, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2011 Jo - thanks Doesn't the description say 'retooled high definition bogies' though?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The side on shot here http://www.ehattons.....aspx?SID=31444 shows that this one retains the early style bogies. Dunno how much of a detractor it is to you, but I'm not a fan...it does have the most recent chassis though, so should run nice It should also be noted that Dapol sell the new style bogies as spares for swapping out those of the older style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Here's a couple of fots side by of some EWS ones, shows how close they are Shows the moulded v separate handrails up well. Also shows some variation in the quality of printing, too. Farish seems to have the edge in terms of fine moudling, comapre the cabside window frame surrounds Farish left, Dapol Right Farish left, Dapol Right Farish top, Dapol bottom jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 6, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2011 Thanks Jo That's really helpful. A very interesting comparison...I see what you mean about the mouldings on the front - the Farish looks more delicate... Hmmm....time to flip a Euro and see how it lands I feel... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2011 I have been buying class 66's for my new layout of Banbury. As the layout is going to be DCC operated, decoders are being fitted as locos are bought. The Farish 66 requires soldering decoders to the circuit board on top of the chassis and this can be very diddly to do. Whilst most of my Farish class 66 decoder installations have gone well, I do have one EWS loco that has had three different decoders fitted but still won't run. On taking the decoder out and reinserting the clips onto the circuit board the loco runs fine on DC. I have emails Bachmann but the reply was very much " you must have done something wrong". The Dapol 66 takes a plug in six pin decoder which is much simpler to install. However experience so far with both the 66 and 67 is the running quality is much poorer than the Farish one. Also about a year ago whilst at a show a friend purchased a Dapol 66 and when the retailer tested them on DC it took some time to find one that ran well. We fitted a six pin decoder into the loco but it would not respond so it went back to the trader. We haven't purchased any more Dapol 66's since then. I have fitted many decoders in various scales for some years so am pretty sure I had installed the decoders correctly plus the decoders still work and have now been fitted to other locos. In terms of detail I agree that they both have their pros and cons. just disappointed with the DCC operation . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I have experience of both. As has been said before, you need to be careful with the Dapol 66 in terms of mechanism - there are several out there. The first batch (mainly EWS) has a 3 pole motor (which does not look to have replace-able brushes, so when they're worn it's a new motor ), metal chassis blocks. These can be somewhat ropey in terms of running - I've seen 7 now (only one being mine) and they all had hideously tight gearing (to the point one fried it's motor) - the gears wear sandwiched in the bogies between the sides. This is fixable but takes a complete strip down and freeing up of the individual gears one at a time. This transformed the running of the models - instead of being sluggish and some slowing after a bit of time running they were all much more responsive. The current consumption was immediately halved from an excessive 300mA+ to less than 150. I also fitted brass bearings to the worm shafts which were rattling around making one hell of a sound. The early ones aren't DCC ready (no socket). The later models seemed to also suffer from stiff gearing - Dapol posted on their website to say it needs oiled prior to use, though I think I'd still be sceptical that there isn't some tightness in the gearing given the past experiences - I'd be inclined to check early on if you take this option to ensure you don't run into future problems. Also, the most recent ones have the newer 5 pole skew wound motor fitted together with finer wheels - this motor is a much nicer unit, and has brushes that look to be replace-able so in theory should be cheaper to maintain in the long run. I think the only EWS one so far to this spec has been the limited Hattons run of 66111. The Farish mechanism runs using a 3 pole can motor (so again no brush changes), and seems to perform well. I think the 66135 batch did have some problems with split gears (not a deal breaker as they are easy fixed) as there have been quite a few reports I've read on this. I think now it's probably a toss up as to which is best. The Farish outshone the early Dapols in terms of performance and mechanism I think, but the most recent Dapols have closed back up and are probably now as good. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 My preference is the later Dapol one for the DCC socket and for the fact I've not had any mechanical problems with them, while the Farish one I have is only running by scavenging parts from another busted one. I don't know if the recent 66s are ok but the early Farish ones seem to have had quite a few problems with gears failing. Moulding wise I think the Farish has the edge on the finer mouldings but the Dapol etched roof work is vastly superior to the plastic grille blob on the Farish. Both are however great models, and when introduced its probably true to say that the class 66 was the best and the second best N gauge UK outline diesel ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 The later models seemed to also suffer from stiff gearing - Dapol posted on their website to say it needs oiled prior to use, though I think I'd still be sceptical that there isn't some tightness in the gearing given the past experiences - I'd be inclined to check early on if you take this option to ensure you don't run into future problems. Also, the most recent ones have the newer 5 pole skew wound motor fitted together with finer wheels - this motor is a much nicer unit, and has brushes that look to be replace-able so in theory should be cheaper to maintain in the long run. I think the only EWS one so far to this spec has been the limited Hattons run of 66111. The Farish mechanism runs using a 3 pole can motor (so again no brush changes), and seems to perform well. I think the 66135 batch did have some problems with split gears (not a deal breaker as they are easy fixed) as there have been quite a few reports I've read on this. I think now it's probably a toss up as to which is best. The Farish outshone the early Dapols in terms of performance and mechanism I think, but the most recent Dapols have closed back up and are probably now as good. Cheers, Alan In addition to 66111 for Hattons, Dapol have produced the latest-spec 66 in EWS as 66181 and 66222, both of which were general releases. I have one of these, and two Farish sheds in my fleet, and I feel the newer Dapol loco has the edge in terms of both performance and looks. My Farish locos are earlier releases (200 and 701) and both have been affected by split gears - straightforward to deal with, but there are other things I'd rather do with my modelling time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 IMO the best would be a hybrid mix of both; the Dapol body is more convincing (has etched roof grille and separate windscreen wipers whereas the Farish grille is plastic moulding, the wipers are moulded in the glazing and the front face has a detachable split line across it) although the plastic Dapol front handrail needs replacing with wire; fitted on a Farish underframe/bogies (detail has more realistic undercut 'depth'); and motor mechanics from either (depending on which was the better running). So at the end of the day it's probably the one that is the best deal/cheapest for the livery you want (although Dapol tend to offer a larger range of liveries/running numbers). G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 6, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2011 Thank you all for all the recent replies/observations/experiences. Interesting that hybrid option - has anyone tried it? Presume they should fit after fettling? I'm thinking a Hattons Dapol dummy (66250) for £20 on top of the cheapest Farish (66701) for £49 giving £69 tops. Worth a punt...or the reverse...a more expensive option though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Looking at ewsjo's photos posted above, the most dramatic difference in my eyes is in the "face" of the cab - the Farish model looks much finer and more convincing to me personally. I don't own either model though, so this might be a bit different to look at up close in person. However, in the photo of the two locos face on, there appears to be quite a dramatic height difference in the windscreen and front handrails, and to a lesser extent, overall height. Is the Farish model sitting on different size wheels? Or is one of the models significantly out of scale in this respect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 7, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2011 Good point Justin...I was wondering whether the Dapol 66 was slightly forward of the Farish which may also explain it? Over to you Jo... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Looking at the photos it looks as if the Farish one is a mm or so taller than the Dapol one. I wonder which is correct? The Farish "face" does look slightly finer but is spoiled for me by the join line between the lights. Mind you I suspect you would eb hard pressed to tell the two models apart at normal viewing distances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Anything that looks to be at different heights/levels is down to slight perspective and angle effects. On the track, everything lines up. - Except - The handrail on the Dapol is noticably lower, meaning on some liveries the yellow panel looks undersized HTH jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 9, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 9, 2011 Thanks Jo The coins landed...it looks like I will go with the Farish one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted April 10, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2011 By way of an addendum, I ordered a Farish one earlier today. I may still opt for the Dapol body on the Farish chassis but Jon (43179) kindly alerted me that the original Farish EWS 66135 appeared on the Coombe - Moorswater branch. Although hard to source these days I have opted for the Farish 66701 and I can get the 66135 body only as a spare from Bob Russell at BR Lines. Also leaves the door open to get a Dapol body only as well some time. Sorted - Thanks all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercig studios Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Hi Pete If you are up for a bit of a challenge then TPM do a very nice detail kit for the Farish 66: http://www.tpmodels.co.uk/modern_loco_detailing.htm M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Indeed they do - something I'd completely forgotten! I still haven't got round to finishing the one I started. I have another pack to do, too. The mirrors in particular are so simple yet effective cheers jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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