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Bachmann announce GWR 'City'





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#26 The Stationmaster

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:03

Frame strengthening plates are different too. On COT there are two separate strengthening plates over the axle boxes on the left/firemans side ( a stage 3 repair I believe), whereas on the right/drivers side, it is one continuous plate (stage 5 repair). The two sides are totally different, faithfully recreated by Bachmann. Photo evidence may reveal two locos the same, but the repairs were made as required rather than a preventional cure to the whole class.

I am sure it has been covered before, but the red frame locos did not receive the top feed pipework leading to the safety valve until later after 1911, at a time that the simplified livery was about to appear. COT had no topfeed during the time of the high speed mails run. It has been written that COT only received the earlier livery in order for the original number of 3440 to be used. In 1957, the BR books already had a 3717 in the form of a Pannier tank. (now there's a marketing opportunity for Bachmann to produce - both 3717 locomotives in a boxed collectors set).
Non of this is going to stop me buying another one (or two) though.Etched plates for 3712/6 already ordered.
Mike Wiltshire


I think it's more than fair to say that to strictly accurately represent almost any (?) member of the Class at some time in its original working life the Bachmann 'City' will require a bit of work unless one is satisfied with a simple rechristening and ignores the pattern of patching. But I don't think this would necessarily harm sales as Mike's post clearly demonstrates.

And I truly hope that the level of sales will encourage Bachmann or somebody to produce some coaching stock to go with the locos and suitable for at least one point in their lives - I'd like a suitable looking train to go with my two 'Truros' :angel: Alas :O as it looks like a very heavy Western (Region) year rapidly coming up over the horizon I don't think I'll be going for locos this far out of my chosen field and not quite so suitable for 'railtour' use as the first NRM loco (even if the frames are the wrong colour).

Edited by The Stationmaster, 18 March 2012 - 10:06 .




#27 Ozexpatriate

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:36

Pictures of the Cities are now on the Bachmann website:

GWR 3700 Class 3433 'City Of Bath' GWR Green Garter Crest

GWR 3700 Class 3439 'City Of London' GWR Green Monogram (same picture as the top of this thread)

These are curiously listed as era "3", when both pre-date 1923.
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#28 Jon Fitness

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:49

City of Truro appeared in BR lined black in one of the mags as an April the 1st spoof (early to mid eighties if the grey cells arn't to depleted) when she was at the Severn Valley for an overhaul, she was painted on one side only so that when a rep from the NRM came to see her he was only shown the green half.

Cheers SS

It was only Black for a week in October and the mag published the following April! No-one saw it who shouldn't have, and by the time it was published, the loco was in it's component parts and the tender re-painted green. Great fun!!!! :diablo_mini:
cot03.jpg
cot09.jpg
Having said that if they released one in that livery I'd have one for old times sake
JF(one of the proud&guilty ones!)

Edited by Jon Fitness, 21 March 2012 - 17:51 .

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#29 gwrrob

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 18:09

Having said that if they released one in that livery I'd have one for old times sake
JF(one of the proud&guilty ones!)


If Bachmann release one in this livery I will pack up railway modelling and stand naked in Broadgate.Disgusting.
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#30 Siberian Snooper

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 20:18

If Bachmann release one in this livery I will pack up railway modelling and stand naked in Broadgate.Disgusting.


I think that the BR black suits her quite well as does the livery on the Dukedog, this from a dyed in the wool GW man

Cheers SS

A half decent win on the lottery I'd probly pay Bachmann to do limited addition run, just to see the news.
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#31 Bon Accord

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 20:30

I thought she looked quite smart in BR black.
What surprised most was the sheer amount of backlash from the G**** W****** fans, the bile or should I say hate that was unleashed was something to behold. As in many times since, it just proves they have no sense of humour......
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#32 Siberian Snooper

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 20:38

I thought she looked quite smart in BR black.
What surprised most was the sheer amount of backlash from the G**** W****** fans, the bile or should I say hate that was unleashed was something to behold. As in many times since, it just proves they have no sense of humour......


The places where I work(ed), it is (was) always, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined!!
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#33 Ozexpatriate

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 20:50

What surprised most was the sheer amount of backlash from the G**** W****** fans, the bile or should I say hate that was unleashed was something to behold. As in many times since, it just proves they have no sense of humour......


There's some mighty broad generalizations there!

As an April 1 joke, the lined black livery was pretty funny and the point of April fools jokes is to catch people out using a plausible absurdity.

The GWR City is an inflection point between 19th and 20th century locomotive design. The outside frames belong to the 19th century and the tapered boiler and Belpaire firebox look like everything Churchward did and then inspired for the better part of the next 50 years. It has nice lines and it's not surprising that a coppertop with a shiny brass safety valve cover and name plate would look nice in lined black. And it does.

Green is of course better ... and proper.

Edited by Ozexpatriate, 21 March 2012 - 20:52 .

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#34 Bon Accord

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 20:56

Green is of course better ... and proper.


If you mean BR green with electrification signs and a diagonal yellow stripe on the cab then I agree entirely, she'd look mightily smart. Anyone care to do a photoshop?
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#35 Gilwell Park

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 21:52

If Bachmann release one in this livery I will pack up railway modelling and stand naked in Broadgate.Disgusting.


Well, you know what you look like in the nude!

Roger.
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#36 Jon Fitness

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 23:19

If Bachmann release one in this livery I will pack up railway modelling and stand naked in Broadgate.Disgusting.

Wow it still works after all these years! My best work......Thats just the reaction we had in 1984...
I'll have the camera ready!
JF
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#37 cary hill

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:01

If Bachmann release one in this livery I will pack up railway modelling and stand naked in Broadgate.Disgusting.


Surely Lady Godiva has beaten you to it by a good many years and is still there and possibly a more attractive sight?
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#38 Horsetan

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:33

Surely Lady Godiva has beaten you to it by a good many years and is still there and possibly a more attractive sight?


Yes, but in her case, she was attending an event and complained that she had literally nothing to wear.

#39 gwrrob

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 17:24

I'll have the camera ready!
JF


You would need a wide angle lense Jon. :O :no:

#40 BR60103

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:47

Surely Lady Godiva has beaten you to it by a good many years and is still there and possibly a more attractive sight?


could we get one lettered for City of Coventry?
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#41 brushman47544

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 09:36

"City of London" is already here:
http://www.kernowmod...ive_number_3439
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#42 jukebox

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 23:23

Could i ask for thoughts/opinions/recommendations from those here who know these things, on the preferred sources for etched plates to renumber one of these models? Thanks!

Edited by jukebox, 26 March 2012 - 23:34 .


#43 Coach bogie

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:40

Could i ask for thoughts/opinions/recommendations from those here who know these things, on the preferred sources for etched plates to renumber one of these models? Thanks!


Both 247 Developments and Model Master supply a range of names and numbers. If you are renaming City of London, beware you will have to paint the base of the nameplate indian red to match as the plates from both suppliers will have either a green or black plate area below the name.

I have usually defended 247 in the past, but I, amongst other, are experiencing order issues with Gary. Recommend buying via a show (he is at York next week).

http://247developmen..._gwr_names.html

Model master (ex Jackson Evans range) are more expensive but offer a much larger selection of names and online payment. I ordered plates recently in the morning and they arrived next day.

http://www.modelmast.../GW_City440.php

Mike Wiltshire

#44 Craigw

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:48

There are also CGW plates who appear to be the only ones who supply converted Atbara plates. Fox transfers also do ones for Truro. I second the comments on the service from 247. I ordered dome plates when he was still doing commissions, had an acknowledgment of it and then absolutely nothing. Lovely plates if you can buy them at exhibitions (as I am in Australia I have to rely on people visiting and doing me favours) but mail order and replying to emails? Dismal. CGW take cheques but their service id quite good and the plates are lovely. The other option is Guilplates which I think I will try as I wasnt plates for Durban.

Regards,

Craig W

#45 jukebox

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:06

Both 247 Developments and Model Master supply a range of names and numbers. If you are renaming City of London, beware you will have to paint the base of the nameplate indian red to match as the plates from both suppliers will have either a green or black plate area below the name.

I have usually defended 247 in the past, but I, amongst other, are experiencing order issues with Gary. Recommend buying via a show (he is at York next week).

http://247developmen..._gwr_names.html

Model master (ex Jackson Evans range) are more expensive but offer a much larger selection of names and online payment. I ordered plates recently in the morning and they arrived next day.

http://www.modelmast.../GW_City440.php

Mike Wiltshire


Hi Mike - thanks for the assessment. I, too, have been unable to get a response from 247 developments for a multi-product order recently, and ended up at Modelmasters as well, where the service was first class, and I am very pleased with the etched products.

Not sure I quite understand your comment about painting the plate Indian Red - as per this shot of Truro, below, wouldn't a plate with green below the name be appropriate?



Posted Image

There are also CGW plates who appear to be the only ones who supply converted Atbara plates. Fox transfers also do ones for Truro. I second the comments on the service from 247. I ordered dome plates when he was still doing commissions, had an acknowledgment of it and then absolutely nothing. Lovely plates if you can buy them at exhibitions (as I am in Australia I have to rely on people visiting and doing me favours) but mail order and replying to emails? Dismal. CGW take cheques but their service id quite good and the plates are lovely. The other option is Guilplates which I think I will try as I wasnt plates for Durban.

Regards,

Craig W


Hi Craig - thanks for the heads up! I, too, am down under, but without the luxury of someone to buy for me, as I mentioned to Mike, have sent my business to Modelmasters. I understand the plates from CGW are excellent, which makes the inability to purchase them that little more frustrating!

Regards

Scott

#46 David Bigcheeseplant

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:27

The plate below the name plate should be red, it was on the 1957 repaint, although the sandboxes were red back then too, although when the loco was in sevice there were no sandboxes above the footplate to paint anyway!

The bachman model with red frames is totally incorrect for any City other than Truro in preserved condition, as when the class had red frames the following differences were noticable.

shorter smokebox no rivets,
no sandboxes above footplate
no top feed
tender with combined D shaped filler rather than dome
no patched frames with rivets
cast iron tapered chimney
square socket lamp irons rather than flat bar.
slide rather than piston valves
different style of front bogie

Oh the double lining is a myth anyway should be just a single line either side of the black line with no green line between like the later livery

Edited by David Bigcheeseplant, 28 March 2012 - 12:33 .

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#47 GWR-Fanatic

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 17:44

I thought she looked quite smart in BR black.
What surprised most was the sheer amount of backlash from the G**** W****** fans, the bile or should I say hate that was unleashed was something to behold. As in many times since, it just proves they have no sense of humour......


I must break the mould then, because I've been told I have rather wicked sense of humour! :D ^_^ :)

If Bachmann (well, in my personal case, GrahamFarish, as I am an N gauge modeller), released a City class in this livery, I'd be quite happy, as most of my stock is BR era, with one or two GWR locomotives in their original livery. I also think it works well on the "Dukedog" at the Bluebell, certainly does not bother me in the slightest.

As long as it's GWR in origin, it's not the livery that matters to me, it's the history. Though it is nice to see locomotives of that particular company in their original livery.

#48 Coach bogie

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 18:09

Not sure I quite understand your comment about painting the plate Indian Red - as per this shot of Truro, below, wouldn't a plate with green below the name be appropriate?


It's that preservation versus original time.
No one can be 100% sure as there are no known colour photographs pre 1912 of the class. I have a coloured lithograph that show the area below the plate as red matching the frames.

The official photo grey does not help as it is all grey (and it wasn't Truro photographed, they patched the Truro plates in afterwards)

Mike Wiltshire

#49 Bon Accord

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 18:48

I must break the mould then, because I've been told I have rather wicked sense of humour! :D ^_^ :)

If Bachmann (well, in my personal case, GrahamFarish, as I am an N gauge modeller), released a City class in this livery, I'd be quite happy, as most of my stock is BR era, with one or two GWR locomotives in their original livery. I also think it works well on the "Dukedog" at the Bluebell, certainly does not bother me in the slightest.

As long as it's GWR in origin, it's not the livery that matters to me, it's the history. Though it is nice to see locomotives of that particular company in their original livery.


Hi Matt,
I'd quite agree with all of that. A loco very dear to my heart is the Caley Single, and whilst it never carried BR black I imagine it would look quite smart in that livery and wouldn't have any qualms in seeing it in those colours for a limited time.
I don't model the pre grouping era, but I find the liveries and designs wonderfully nostalgic and harking back to a prouder age. Unfortunately what that means in practical terms is that I tend to be very weak on the odd occasions such locos are released, even though it's completely out of region/era for me! Ergo in my loco stable there's an LSWR liveried M7, a few Terriers, LT Panniers (not PG but similar!), GCR liveried O4 (NRM), re-released Caley Single in CR blue and City of Truro (NRM), although I have restrained myself from buying the Compound - for the moment.
Unfortunately I think I might cave in yet again for Butler Henderson in GCR green, although it'll go nicely with the O4!

Edited by Bon Accord, 28 March 2012 - 18:52 .

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#50 Craigw

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 21:06

If Bachmann (well, in my personal case, GrahamFarish, as I am an N gauge modeller), released a City class in this livery, I'd be quite happy, as most of my stock is BR era, with one or two GWR locomotives in their original livery. I also think it works well on the "Dukedog" at the Bluebell, certainly does not bother me in the slightest.

As long as it's GWR in origin, it's not the livery that matters to me, it's the history. Though it is nice to see locomotives of that particular company in their original livery.


History records though that the large wheeled GWR 4-4-0 locos were "masacred" in the late 1920s and early 1930s. They have absolutley no relevance to GWR shirt button, or any BR livery for that matter. The BR livery was done on Truro as a joke - and only one side of the loco was painted (by the looks of photos).

So any model of a City done in a BR livery is pure fiction and nothing more. One wonders if there would be just as much jumping for joy if Bachmann put a face on the model and made it a Thomas loco - because it is just as accurate as a city in BR livery.

Craig W
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