The cess in 4mm

[Tim Hale]

Hi,

 

The median strip between landscape and the proper ballast has always been a bit of a mystery, especially where the track main line branches into a siding - our local railway just doesn't have sidings, therefore nothing to be gained by looking at the prototype.

 

However for creating a scene fifty years ago, what do you use for the ground cover 'twixt the ballast proper and the surrounding landscape? I don't think much of the Carr's Ash Ballast, far too grey, maybe tea leaves?

 

The layout is a simple rural station with a couple of sidings therefore no vast swathes of coal dust or cobbles, any suggestions for the groundwork in the yard that isn't ballast but neither is it the grassy hinterland.

 

Thank you

 

Tim

[The Stationmaster]

Ah - some common sense on this matter at last! All too easily overlooked in these days of Grassmasters that back then the cess was looked after and kept clear of undergrowth and grass - the railway was usually tidy except on some lines that were soon for the chop or which had been reduced to an irregularly used status. Ranting bit over but Tim has raised an excellent point.

 

Now material. The Western (wrong railway I know) normally used ash - which I think included smokebox char - and probably crushed clinker and I know the LNER/Eastern Region and the North Eastern Region did the same in many places. The reason it was used was because it was available in quantity at no cost and it drained well and deterred plant growth (note the latter point). The alternative - increasingly used as steam declined - was stone chippings but also 'stone dust'; the latter (basically graded quarrying waste) provided a much firmer walking surface than chippings so was much safer for paths where shunting took place but once it had been wetted a few times it tended to go off like concrete and become near impervious presenting drainage problems.

 

As far as the Southern was concerned a few pics and ancient memory suggest it too would have used 'ash' for cess paths ('Southern Way' might contain some helpful lineside and yard pics to confirm or deny my memories?) but in later years as steam declined and then end it too used chippings and something usually referred to as 'Meldon dust' which I believe was actually chippings with a sieve size of less than 3/8ths of an inch down to 'dust' size - Southernman46 will probably know a lot more than me about that I'm sure.

 

So I think you'll probably be looking at a largely ash based surface for your time period although possibly with some use of small stone/dust (which in my experience very rapidly lost its natural quarried colour). What I can't be so clear on is how to represent I'm afraid; I was looking at a layout yesterday where St Simon has used 2mm scale track ballast as the ground cover for modern depot walkways and it is not too bad a representation, I think, of something surfaced with chippings - but ash surfaces were, in my experience, much finer than that so I wonder about weathering powders on a smooth base material such as air drying clay (Chris Nevard I'm sure has done something in that line, something written up n 'Model Rail' a while back?).

 

Sorry it's more a matter of possible leads rather than firm help Tim but I'll be interested to see what you come with as I have a glimmer of a possible little project in mind which will be looking for a similar answer so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and your experiments.

[Tim Hale]

Many thanks

 

Some experiments with varieties of well washed tea leaves will be useful

 

Tim

[DaveF]

I don't know if these photos of mine will give you any ideas?

 

The texture is usually very fine. Have you looked at the Woodland Scenics ash ballast which is almost black?

 

 

 

 

David

[Poor Old Bruce]

Have a think about starting with a coat of matt black paint. That seems to pass the 'three foot' viewing test. if you don't like it afterwards, you can always give it another coat and sprinkle your scatter of choice before it goes off.

[The Fatadder]

Another thought for a possible paint based solution, would be a coat of one of the plasticote type textured spray paints, then airbrushing with a mixture of dark greys to get the colour

(much like the method used to model roads/concrete)

Looking at photos this looks like it would give a close match, though it is not something I've tried (yet)

[Chris Nevard]

Most proprietary ballasts like WS are far too course, air clay or Das is the key. We tend to overdo fine textures as model makers, but as other prototype photos posted here show ash is very fine indeed. I cannot go into too much detail here, but I'm covering this in a future Model Rail Polbrock workbench feature (part 3 out soon). I did a featurette for Model Rail May 2008 covering Air Clay (Das is better btw as well as being easier to get hold of). The below snaps will give the idea though...

Tip: avoid using colours that are too dark, even ash yards look quite pale on a summer day and nothing like black.

 

 

 

[buffalo]

...Tip: avoid using colours that are too dark, even ash yards look quite pale on a summer day and nothing like black.

Interesting to note that Chris' last photo shows a bright day whereas Dave's are all in wet weather when the surfaces are quite dark. That said, they all look like yards that are much larger than Tim mentions in his OP, so I'm not really convinced that either are typical of what Tim is looking for. As to the topic title, I reckon Carr's ash is ideal for the narrow cess alongside running lines. It certainly matches the dark strip that contrasts with pale ballast in my main areas of interest (GWR Somerset branches and the northern half of the Somerset & Dorset). I don't really understand what Tim means by "too grey". Mike's comments match my fading memories and photos for this area in that the cess was clean and uniform in colour up to the late fifties. Thereafter, it becomes more patchy and speckled with other material.

 

Yards, at least those not covered in coal dust (for which there's no substitute for real coal dust), appear from quite early times to often be a mix of ash and other lighter stone, quite likely something akin to the dust that Mike refers to. At the moment, I'm experimenting with various mixes of Carr's ash, chinchilla dust, the stuff out off water filters and various other substances. The chinchilla dust is a very fine buff coloured material, actually dried clay, which makes a good representation of pale limestone chippings. Maybe I'll also try taking a hammer to the cat litter. So far, I've not really reached any conclusions, other than that they all need some work with weathering washes to get anything like an acceptable finish.

 

Nick

[The Stationmaster]

I have posted this pic previously on another thread in which GWMark was asking about the transition between ballast and other surfaces but it is reasonably appropriate for this discussion too I think. It is Western Region but back in 1963 when I took it the Southern (and much of BR) was no less neat at the lineside than can be seen in this view. Incidentally the line visible over on the left had been taken out of use a couple of weeks previously when the section was singled - prior to that it had normally carried no more than one freight trip daily (SX) plus occasional passenger excursions but the cess was still maintained and kept clear of weeds etc.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Interesting to note that Chris' last photo shows a bright day whereas Dave's are all in wet weather when the surfaces are quite dark. That said, they all look like yards that are much larger than Tim mentions in his OP, so I'm not really convinced that either are typical of what Tim is looking for. As to the topic title, I reckon Carr's ash is ideal for the narrow cess alongside running lines. It certainly matches the dark strip that contrasts with pale ballast in my main areas of interest (GWR Somerset branches and the northern half of the Somerset & Dorset). I don't really understand what Tim means by "too grey". Mike's comments match my fading memories and photos for this area in that the cess was clean and uniform in colour up to the late fifties. Thereafter, it becomes more patchy and speckled with other material.

 

Yards, at least those not covered in coal dust (for which there's no substitute for real coal dust), appear from quite early times to often be a mix of ash and other lighter stone, quite likely something akin to the dust that Mike refers to. At the moment, I'm experimenting with various mixes of Carr's ash, chinchilla dust, the stuff out off water filters and various other substances. The chinchilla dust is a very fine buff coloured material, actually dried clay, which makes a good representation of pale limestone chippings. Maybe I'll also try taking a hammer to the cat litter. So far, I've not really reached any conclusions, other than that they all need some work with weathering washes to get anything like an acceptable finish.

 

Nick

 

DAS? Well if you can guarantee that your efforts are not going to be subjected to frost or damp at any time in the future, it might be interesting to try, otherwise be prepared to consign it to the bin as it cracks. That's my unfortunate experience and wouldn't use it again for that purpose.

 

Chinchilla Dust? must come in differing grades, most I would consider the wrong colour and grain size - the stuff I have is more suitable for normal ballast.

 

If you are looking for something akin to Carrs Ash Ballast then you might consider a trip to your local pet supply store and have a look at what they sell for keeping your average lizard/reptile happy. Black Desert sand of a very fine nature can be had - should cost you no more that about 10 pounds for 4.5 kgs, probably more than you'll ever need of course for the average layout.

 

From memory the average yard 'finish' was quite dark in steam days, almost black.

[Tim Hale]

http://timhalesblog.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Layout

 

 

As seen in the photos on the blog, I think that the periphery of the ballast needs raising rather than just filling in with a thick layer of hoggin, possibly some good quality corrugated cardboard to compensate for the thick Peco sleepers? This might give me a fighting chance to create the cess at the right level.

 

I have already used Plastikote textured paint on the track, it is lovely stuff and their, now withdrawn, Cappuchino spray will be used on the raised cardboard cess.

 

As for Chinchilla dust, I have included a photo within the above link - certainly not the right colour for my purposes but a nice size for ballast and it looks just like the stuff being used on the SW Mainline through Sherborne.

 

Thanks for the ideas, most of my photographic inspiration comes from Southern in Colour from Kevin Robertson - lots of differing styles of rural yards - some with the sleepers buried in the muck with others, such as East Leake, where the sleeper ends are well exposed.

 

Tim

[Campaman]

I have a nice tub filled with real ash from the BBQ last summer using briquettes, and that's what I use, stuck down with PVA.

 

(I also use crushed BBQ briquettes to represent coke for wagon loads)

[Trog]

The ballast edge was sometimes set using a string line to give a nice smart transition between ballast shoulder and cess.

 

Now days you are lucky if there is a cess at all, let alone a neat one.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Tim. I know it's a bit off your patch but on the Waverley, great pride was taken on the appearance of the line and it's immediate environs. (it still is!)

The ballast edge was kept very neatly and precisely with a band of tamped down ash in the cess area, typically 12 to 18 inches wide. Beyond the cess, any growth was kept cut back for a distance of 10-15 feet. On a line where engines were worked very hard through grassy uplands, I'm sure the reasoning is self explanatory!

 

Dave.

[mikemeg]

On my Hessle Haven model I used a product ( I think by Peco) called path. It is dark grey, fine textured - much finer than ballast, even 'N' gauge ballast which is what I use in 4 mm. I just painted on a strip of PVA, by the side of the ballast, and then sprinkled this stuff onto the wet PVA, removing the excess when it was dry.

 

Though the colour is quite a dark grey, it is not the grey of tamped ash ballast, which was almost black, so I painted the whole cess area with very dark grey and then just added a few rust couloured and various other coloured highlights.

 

Anyway, here's a photo of the finished cess; this one with the rodding stools fitted and awaiting the point rodding.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ColHut]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread. I am puzzled by the term Ash Ballast. Is this just firebox ash? Most Ash I have seen, or seen photos of in piles by engine shed roads, appears variously white through grey, and with quite different shades in the same pile (allowing somewhat for black and white photos). Yet most model ash ballast is black. Am I missing something here?

 

regards

[Blandford1969]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread. I am puzzled by the term Ash Ballast. Is this just firebox ash? Most Ash I have seen, or seen photos of in piles by engine shed roads, appears variously white through grey, and with quite different shades in the same pile (allowing somewhat for black and white photos). Yet most model ash ballast is black. Am I missing something here?

 

regards

Ash ballast was and is just that the ash out of the smokebox, depending on if its wet or dry it can look either black or grey.

[davefrk]

Ash ballast on Wharfeside.

 

 

And a defined edge to the mainline stone ballast as per photos of the real thing.

 

Dave.

[ColHut]

Ah post #20 and #35 here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72038-ash-from-locomotive-fireboxes/page-2

has some excellent links.

 

Seems as if colour depends in part on if the ash comes from the smokebox or ash pan.

 

Definitely not a uniform full black colour, but I suppose as it got mxed up it would tend to various shades of grey.

 

regards

[bécasse]

Gordon Gravett describes his use of talcum powder (and the like) sprinkled on to wet gloss black paint to replicate road surfaces. That isn't how I do tarmac roads (I use "polyfilla" darkened with neat black acrylic paint worked into before spreading which is then sanded once it is dry), but I reckon that Gordon's technique offers considerable possibilities for the realistic representation of cesses (which remember weren't always long and narrow as the photos show) especially if various powder mixes are experimented with.

[HeatonLodge40]

I followed Gordon Gravetts technique for roads to the letter for Heaton Lodge. I don’t recall him using black paint but Humbrol Pale Grey or dark admiralty grey. This is the result of those colours and talc

[rovex]

Radical thought, but what about using "ash".

 

Alright I have a coal fire and so a ready supply. My only concern - not having thought it through - is the potential harmful effect of any acidic chemicals in the ash itself, but unlikely to be an issue since it won't be in touch with the track.

[DCB]

As most of the pictures of Steam era ballast shoulders are black and white or slightly dodgy vintage colour it seems to me the critical thing is to get a difference between the ballast colour and the cess colour with a clearly defined edge to the ballast and a clearly defined edge to the carefully cropped grass on embankment or cutting side. 

The idea of the cess as a walking route seems to have disappeared as steam ended and the ballast and cess alike have disappeared under a carpet of weeds on many lines. 

I suppose the scruffy mess ballast shoulders frequently modelled probably belong to the Blue era (Best forgotten era) but look very wrong on modern (2010 on) or pre 1965 layouts alike.

[Wheatley]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread. I am puzzled by the term Ash Ballast. Is this just firebox ash? Most Ash I have seen, or seen photos of in piles by engine shed roads, appears variously white through grey, and with quite different shades in the same pile (allowing somewhat for black and white photos). Yet most model ash ballast is black. Am I missing something here?

 

regards

 

Think 'clinker' rather than 'ash'. The hard crunchy dark bits rather than the powdery grey bit. Piles of firebox ash in a loco shed will contain both, by the time it's been laid as ballast or hardstanding the powdery bit will either have blown away or migrated downwards as a sort of muddy gloop the first time it rains.

[ianLMS]

Here is a pic from Sheringham showing the cess. Looks dark grey to me. The second pic is from Google Images or Flickr and shows the cess supposedly in 1939. Again, looks quite smooth and dark grey.