NER Tennant 2-4-0

[mikemeg]

So, here we go again, this time with the Tennant 2-4-0. The Tennants were a class of twenty locomotives, designed in 1884 by a committee under the chairmanship of Henry Tennant, the then General Manager of the North Eastern Railway. They were ordered in December of 1884, with the first entering service in May 1885, during which year Darlington and Gateshead works each built ten.

 

Initially used on the North Eastern main line from York to Newcastle, introduction of various 4-4-0 classes during the 1890's, caused the Tennants to be relegated to secondary main lines quite quickly, as train weights increased. They were then allocated to the Scarborough - York - Leeds, Darlington to Penrith and Darlington to Tebay routes.

 

Their final allocations, during the later 1920's was Darlington - 7, Kirkby Stephen - 4, York - 3, Sunderland - 3, Durham - 2, West Hartlepool - 1. The class was designated as E5 by the LNER with withdrawals commencing in 1926, the final example - 1474 - being withdrawn from York in February 1929. One example - 1463 - did survive to become part of the National Collection and is now housed in the NRM at York.

 

The first task is to separate the footplate/outside frames from the etch, dress off the tabs, press out the various bolts and rivets and then fold up as per the instructions. For the bolt/rivet pressing I used one half of a 'disembodied' set of drawing compasses with the the point first sharpened and then very slightly blunted to save puncturing the metal completely. A rivet press would, of course, be better.

 

As is customary, with these threads, let's start with a photograph of the prototype; this one taken post 1922 as the locomotive is carrying LNER markings.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

What on earth is happening to this site? SQL errors, mid way through a transaction, very slow response, system locking up completely and postings and edits not being actioned or, again, locking up mid way through. Ok I know this site is free to members but the performance is now becoming appallingly frustrating and I, for one, am tempted to abandon any further attempts at creating and maintaining threads until the performance is substantially improved.

 

Anyway, we'll have a go again. Next job is the fitting of the upper footplate to the lower footplate/outside frames. It is worthwhile spending some time on the curving of this footplate to ensure that the footplate profile matches the profile of the side frames, prior to soldering the two parts together.

 

There is a temptation to use the soldering process to 'iron out' any discrepancies in curve profile between the two parts and a small amount can, perhaps, be ironed out that way, but the closer the curve profiles of the two parts match, the better. I used a combination of variously diametered 'things' - drill shanks, a plastic pen, etc. and fingers. There is no real shortcut to this process, just trial and error against the side frames; clamping the two parts together as a check and then separating them and doing further adjustments.

 

It's actually as much about patience as it is about skill and technique! Once the curve profile is achieved then the two parts can be held together using 8BA nuts and bolts and the front lamp iron etching, though care must be taken not to solder these up solid, as yet.

 

Anyway, this seems to have worked so we can now move on.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[billbedford]

What on earth is happening to this site? SQL errors, mid way through a transaction, very slow response, system locking up completely and postings and edits not being actioned or, again, locking up mid way through. Ok I know this site is free to members but the performance is now becoming appallingly frustrating and I, for one, am tempted to abandon any further attempts at creating and maintaining threads until the performance is substantially improved.

This sites server is in Montana or Idaho or some such foreign place that is seven hours behind us. So their dead of night were the IT bods do maintenance on their servers just happens to co-incide with our morning rush to post.

[mikemeg]

This sites server is in Montana or Idaho or some such foreign place that is seven hours behind us. So their dead of night were the IT bods do maintenance on their servers just happens to co-incide with our morning rush to post.

 

That may explain the early morning performance but these performance problems do not seem to be limited to any particular timeframe; they happen throughout the day. One edit, on the posting above, took almost ten minutes to action. Anyway I'm sure that there are others experiencing the same issues and, probably, dedicated threads covering these issues, so nuff sed on this thread.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[jwealleans]

You're not wrong, Mike; the whole site is being rehosted in August (I think - there was an announcement last week). I think they may be looking to move to different software as well and frankly it can't come soon enough.

 

What are you going to power this beauty with?

[mikemeg]

You're not wrong, Mike; the whole site is being rehosted in August (I think - there was an announcement last week). I think they may be looking to move to different software as well and frankly it can't come soon enough.

 

What are you going to power this beauty with?

 

I don't know what I'm going to power this with, though the motor probably won't be very big. I am looking forward to playing with some 7' 0" driving wheels; I've never built anything with such large wheels.

 

In fact I'm looking forward to the entire build as this is a very unusual prototype.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Kenton]

There is a temptation to use the soldering process to 'iron out' any discrepancies in curve profile between the two parts and a small amount can, perhaps, be ironed out that way, but the closer the curve profiles of the two parts match, the better. I used a combination of variously diametered 'things' - drill shanks, a plastic pen, etc. and fingers. There is no real shortcut to this process, just trial and error against the side frames; clamping the two parts together as a check and then separating them and doing further adjustments.

 

Such a temptation must be avoided in any similar build - the quickest way to get a bent, out of shape foot/running plate.

 

The server issue is well covered in the ongoing SQL error topic. The remedy being a move to more than one server in Ireland and no change in the software. Optimistically that will fix it. Meanwhile it is good practice to keep a copy of the post before sending it or using the back button and resending (once you check it hasn't got through.

 

Have to agree an interesting and unusual prototype.

[Mrkirtley800]

Thanks for your bit about the difficulties you were having with the site, Mike. I have been seeing the same problems, but I am such a computer ignoramus that I thought it was me, so never said anything. I almost gave up on it completely.

Re your Tennant 2-4-0. I scratch-built a Kirtley 800 class, which I think is about the same size, and powered it by an Ultrascale motor/gearbox unit. I never imagined the unit would fit until I tried. But it resulted in a powerful and reliable loco.

Good luck with your engine, I will follow the progress with interest.

Derek

[ArthurK]

Yes I also have had trouble posting here. Another problem I have is that I can no longer click on "New Content". No matter how I try altering the parameters it alsways comes up with "no new content found". Any help on that one?

 

Now that I have posted something on the thread it will appear in my own conten and much easier to find.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Such a temptation must be avoided in any similar build - the quickest way to get a bent, out of shape foot/running plate.

 

Have to agree an interesting and unusual prototype.

 

Thanks for the comment. I managed to avoid this temptation but included the comment to reinforce Arthur's instructions and the fact that there is no shortcut for this; just trial and error until the curve profiles are identical on both pieces.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ArthurK]

What are you going to power this beauty with?

 

Whilst hot wishing to add too many comments on mike's thread, this is my solution. Mashima 1224 (or is it a 1024? both will fit) driving a stanard highLevel Roadrunner 54:1. I am sure that that will be enough to power the trains that it will be expected to pull.The rear end of the shaft is just about flush with the cab front. Should be just enough room for a small flywheel.

 

Incidentally this uses a rocking front axle rather than the sprung one the I sent to Mike

 

 

 

 

ArthurK

[davknigh]

Hi Mike,

 

As far as power and suspension go you might find this thread useful; http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1277

 

Cheers,

 

David

[£1.38]

Don't wish to sound pedantic, but is it not Tennant, spelt with 3 Ns? See here. If I am wrong, I apologise.

[mikemeg]

Don't wish to sound pedantic, but is it not Tennant, spelt with 3 Ns? See here. If I am wrong, I apologise.

 

It is indeed. So the thread title and references to 'Tenants' have been amended. Many thanks for pointing this out. Incidentally, I did visit the reference in your comment - The biographies of the LNER and LNER constituent CME's - fascinating. I never knew that Edward Thompson was Sir Vincent Raven's son-in-law.

 

So following Arthur's instructions, the detailing of the footplate is done while more platework is added. The front splashers have been completed along with their riveted strips around the splasher and the first of the much larger driving wheel splashers has been assembled - though its decorative brass strip has not yet been added - and checked for fit. A few strokes of the file and it fits though this splasher is not yet fixed. This model seems to be an exercise in making and matching curves, but all the more fun for that.

 

If Edwardian locomotives were simple and quite elegant, then these Victorian designs were much more flamboyant and beautifully embellished with brass fittings and trimmings.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

I guess anyone who has built models of Victorian or Edwardian locomotives or almost any GWR loco will be familiar with the problems of making and fitting the brass beading on the splashers. So I've got to show you this; this is Arthur's approach to the provision of the brass beading on his Tennant kit.

 

The splasher has a recess half etched into it across its entire periphary. The etch contains the beading strips, already curved to exactly the right radius and of an exact width to fit into this recess. Care does need to be exercised when this strip is cleaned up to remove the etching tabs and is tinned, to avoid adding to its width and depth, but with just a minimum of solder on the back of the beading and careful soldering, the result is just lovely.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Jol Wilkinson]

Whilst hot wishing to add too many comments on mike's thread, this is my solution. Mashima 1224 (or is it a 1024? both will fit) driving a stanard highLevel Roadrunner 54:1. I am sure that that will be enough to power the trains that it will be expected to pull.The rear end of the shaft is just about flush with the cab front. Should be just enough room for a small flywheel.

 

Incidentally this uses a rocking front axle rather than the sprung one the I sent to Mike

 

 

 

 

ArthurK

 

I much prefer the "underslung" motor installation.

 

 

The LNWR Coal Tank frames pictured uses 38:1 gears in a LRM motor mount with a 1224 motor. This clears the underside of the cab floor and leaves space above the motor for lead weight.

 

For larger wheels I find that 50:1 works well although I have used 38:1 on a LNWR 2-4-0 with 6' 3" drivers, which also works well with a 1224. Obviously the Mashima 10xx motors will fit between 00 frames, so the same configuration can be used in all 4mm scale gauges.

 

Jol

[mikemeg]

Jol,

 

Many thanks for the suggestion and the accompanying photo; certainly worth consideration.

 

So the next job, according to Arthur's instructions, is the rolling of the boiler and smokebox; adding the brass ring between the two and then adding the boiler bands. When I knew that I would be building several etched loco kits I decided to invest in one of the G.W. Models 6" mini-rollers. This is now the third or fourth boiler on which I have used this roller and now can't really see how boilers could be successfully rolled without one, though I'm sure that they can.

 

This boiler took no more than twenty minutes to roll (and I rolled it slightly under its required diameter and then eased it out a little), then straighten out the sides of the firebox. The resulting boiler is pretty well circular when it comes out of the roller.

 

After rolling, the front of the boiler, where it is a complete circle, was seam soldered and then the etched, circular former soldered in around 2 mm from the end. This after soldering an 8 BA nut to the back of the former.

 

I guess like all of these things, it gets easier with practice, but I am delighted with the results obtained using the mini-roller.

 

Now onto the smokebox.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ArthurK]

I much prefer the "underslung" motor installation.

 

 

The LNWR Coal Tank frames pictured uses 38:1 gears in a LRM motor mount with a 1224 motor. This clears the underside of the cab floor and leaves space above the motor for lead weight.

 

For larger wheels I find that 50:1 works well although I have used 38:1 on a LNWR 2-4-0 with 6' 3" drivers, which also works well with a 1224. Obviously the Mashima 10xx motors will fit between 00 frames, so the same configuration can be used in all 4mm scale gauges.

 

Jol

 

Jol

You mention the wieght problem. I have taken that into consideration in the design of the Tennant. The Firebox and the ashpan is designed to be filled with 'liqid lead' or other lead weight. Using the underslung motor would necessitate cutting away much of the firebox/ashpan so losing the nice box carring a lot of lead. There is still room for lead above and in front of the motor although we don't want too much ahead of the leading friving wheels. I am also looking into the possibility of adding cast white metal weights inside of the rectangular splashers in the cab. I don't think that we will have a traction problem unless we try to pull ten or more LNER 61' 6" coaches.

[mikemeg]

The mini-roller came out again, this time for the smokebox wrapper. This smokebox is formed in exactly the same way as all of Arthur's smokeboxes, with a fold up piece providing the front, bottom and rear of the smokebox; a pair of spacers which bridge the front and rear of the smokebox and which interlock with them, and a wrapper which is designed to be added flush with the front former, leaving a .5 mm overhang at the rear of the smokebox, into which the brass joining ring fits.

 

No real problems here other than the distractions which, in early July, seem to abound. Not least of these distractions, at least for me, is Wimbledon; I've been watching this for well over fifty years. Anyway Andy Murray's match with Ferrer stopped all modelling activity, and we were all rewarded with a Murray victory.

 

It'll be tomorrow, now, before anything further is done on this model; tonight is quiz night at the local - yet another distraction.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Worsdell forever]

Fantastic stuff Mike.

[mikemeg]

Thanks for the kind comment, Paul.

 

It has to be said, though, that I am getting a lot of practice - this is the third loco that I've built since the end of March and the fourth this year. I guess one benefit of that kind of intensity, is that lessons learned on one are still fresh in the memory on the next and so re-inforced. So I shouldn't repeat mistakes; shouldn't being the operative word, because I still do. But processes like rolling boilers and smokeboxes, soldering fine details, etc. have become very much easier with practice.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Now comes one of the key processes, at least for me; detailing the boiler. First thing I did was apply a coat of primer just to the front of the smokebox, this to check that there are no joints showing or no spaces where solder has failed to fill. This will be gently rubbed off later. One characteristic of NER locos, for many years, was the brass ring located at the junction of the boiler and smokebox. Arthur makes provision for this ring to be formed from either .75 mm or 1.00 mm brass, half round. This is soldered to the very front of the boiler. When the boiler and smokebox are then fixed by screwing an 8 BA bolt into the 8 BA nut on the boiler former, this half round ring is pulled into the boiler wrapper; this is the intention of the .5 mm overhang on the rear of the smokebox wrapper. Sounds difficult but with care it can be quite easily accomplished.

 

The boiler bands can then be added along with the washout plugs. I might have to slightly adjust the rearmost boiler band just at the intersection with the splasher cut-out. The final boiler band is actually 'interrupted' by one of the washout plugs and by the brass safety valve cover, so will probably be added in seperate pieces.

 

I'm afraid that I'm a bit of a fiend for cleaning the model up as I go along. The soldering was nowhere near this neat before I cleaned it up. I get through any number of refills for the glass fibre brush when building these things and finish up with fingers full of tiny glass fibre shards.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Horsetan]

..... Anyway Andy Murray stopped all modelling activity....

 

I had no idea Murray was a railway modeller.....!

[mikemeg]

I had no idea Murray was a railway modeller.....!

 

Another of those 'Eats leaves and shoots' statements, perhaps. Since amended!

 

Regards

 

Mike

[Horsetan]

You learn something new every day.