mikemeg Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 We've had to rethink the springing of the front carrying wheels, on this chassis, as using the High Level springy beam components prevented the outer slide bars from being fitted, both upper and lower set. You might be tempted to wonder whether it is actually worth fitting the inside motion at all. These locos did have quite a bit of the internal motion visible from the normal viewing angle, as this photograph illustrates. The balance levers with weights and the lifting links as well as the lower part of the eccentric links were all clearly on view, so, perhaps, it is worth adding this motion. The chassis is very slightly nose up as there is no counteracting force (weight of the loco body) depressing the front springing, which now uses Gibson springs bearing on the axleboxes and held on short spigots soldered to the inside of the mainframes. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Having come this far, with the inside motion, it seems a shame not to complete it by the addition of dummy crossheads and connecting rods. So out with the .040" plasticard, from which a strip 4 mm wide was cut, this for the crossheads. Looking at a General Arrangement drawing for the NER Class R (later D20) which was about the same vintage, gave the overall dimensions and shape of the crosshead. The rod is cut from the same material, filed up and then fluted. Ok I know, this will barely be seen but I intend to fit this, or a similar arrangement to the A6's, the J73 (and that had Joy valve gear) and the J71 and 72 so this is the trial run. This lot took about twenty minutes to cut and file up and those crossheads are 4mm x 5mm so quite small. This will be painted before it is glued into the slide bars to save losing the shiny brightness of the slide bars. This man must be mad! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 It can't be long before you're wondering how to make the inside motion work....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 It can't be long before you're wondering how to make the inside motion work....... Trouble is, Horsetan, this loco will drive on the front axle, the one which would be cranked, so not on this one. I know there are folks who have made the inside motion work and I think some of the 4 mm etched kits available provide for this if the builder wants to do it. What I am after is that look of the space between the frames being full of working bits, as they were. It is something of a foible with me that the inside motion - at least that which is visible - should be as comprehensively represented as possible, even if it doesn't work. This is especially true on older locomotives where high pitched boilers really did expose the working 'innards' to view. So while the second set is drying, I've fully assembled the right hand motion with its piston rod, crosshead and half a con rod - I can't impinge on the gearbox space - and, finally, the top set of slide bars. Is this worth it? Well this lot (the valve gear and motion) will have taken around four hours to build and fit on a model which may be around for years. I can't come back and add this later on, so I think it is worth it. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sheardown Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I think what you're doing is great Mike, and well worth the effort, as in my view it really lifts the model - superb!! Are you planning to give similar attention to the backhead? I'm looking forward to following your progress. Best wishes Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted August 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2012 I think what you're doing is great Mike, and well worth the effort, as in my view it really lifts the model - superb!! Are you planning to give similar attention to the backhead? I'm looking forward to following your progress. Best wishes Mike Mike is awaiting a new backhead casting from me. It will have the sliding firedoor (non working) with separate details in lost wax. It will take a little while but we will get there! I have the injectors and gauge glasses also the clack valves. Next the reverser. This is screw moving the reverse lever with quck change. Tricky this one! ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Apart from the final fettling of the coupling rods, to ensure free running, and the fitting of the crankpins and pickups this chassis is now complete. The brake gear on this chassis is quite fiddly, especially as the brake hangar spindles cannot span the frames - the motion plate impedes the front brake hangar spindles and the compensating beams impede the rear set. So to ensure accurate spacing of the brakes from the mainframes, I glued tiny pieces of 0.5 mm wire into the top journal of each brake, protruding by around 1.5 mm and then fitted two of the very tiny (around 1 mm outside diameter) washers, from Arthur's washers, handwheels and boiler bands etch, to each spindle, leaving around .5 mm of the wire proud. This was then superglued into the locating holes on the mainframes. The brake linkage does go together beautifully and the spacing of the pull rods exactly matched the locations of the bottom journals on the brakes. The rear part of the motor shaft needs to be cropped off with the slitting disc, which will be done when all other adjustments are complete; the gearbox and motor can rotate to allow this to be done without touching the driving wheels. The balance weight on these locos, as with many inside cylinder locos, were not symmetrically placed. The front set were opposed to the inside cranks; the rear set were opposed to the coupling rod journal. So just a little more to do on this one and then a return to the final detailing of the loco body and the tender. Anyway, as the weather is now taking a turn for the better, I can feel a bout of gardening coming on, perhaps even a game of golf, later this afternoon. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Both tender sub frames have now been fitted with continuous springy beams, using High Level Models 2 mm axleboxes, hornguides and beam carriers. Despite their small size, these components do go together very well and required a minimum of fettling to achieve a free sliding axlebox. The fulcrums for the beams are Alan Gibson short handrail knobs, soldered into the frames. I did find that putting a very slight countersink each side of the holes for these handrail knobs aided the soldering process. Why spring the tender? I intend to use tender pick ups on this loco so having all of the tender wheels in contact with the rails should make the pick ups much more reliable. Now to assemble the tender sub frame and add the brake gear. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 The tender sub frame is now assembled and the wheels have been temporarily fitted so that the sit of the tender with respect to the engine can be determined. The tender will need some weight, perhaps three or four ounces, which will be placed as low as possible and centrally over the centre set of wheels. Nearly there on this one, at least as far as I can go until the coal rail (four rail, plated) and the castings are available from Arthur. It is starting to look like a Tennant. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Lovely model. In a way, I am glad it's 4mm, because if there was a 7mm kit for this I would be sorely tempted. I love these earlier engines - in fact as I grow older I seem to be more and more attracted to the older types. There's just something about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 It's a strange place this Hessle Haven, especially in mid 1950; all sorts of odd things can be seen passing through. The train spotters, on the bridge, must have wondered whether they had gone back in time, twenty five years, as this came through on the down slow. No number, not even a livery, and since when were locomotives almost entirely made of brass? Looking at this photo showed that the handrail knob positions, on the tender, must be changed to match the positions of the handrails knobs on the cabside, this at both front and back of the tender. The Victorians would never have allowed such a mismatch, it would have offended their sense of aesthetics. The loco to the left of the Tennant is a J71, converted from the Bachmann J72, on test on the main line. So far it has managed to pull or push thirty wagons at around walking pace. I can't actually get any more on this section of the railway, so I don't know how many more it could move. Mashima 1224's and High Level 108 : 1 gearboxes do give these small tank locos pretty good haulage capabilities. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Dear Mike, I must have looked out of the windows of Hessle Haven signal box several thousand times, but I never saw a Tennant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 One of the parts which Arthur has been working on, and has now done, is the four rail plated coal rail, to go with two rail plated and unplated coal rails, for the 2651 and 3038 gallon tenders. Lunchtime post, today, and one of those padded envelopes arrived through the letterbox - said coal rails, plus various other bits which Arthur has developed, not least those rear window guard irons. So, no time to lose; this must be fitted. These coal rails are very delicate etches and can easily be bent and damaged. Removing any burrs, from the etching tabs, is best done with a very worn needle file; one which will hardly drag at all. Also the piece should be held as close to the filing action as possible, again to avoid distortion. Anyway, after a half hours cutting out and cleaning up, followed by half an hours bending up and soldering the vertical supports, the coal rail was fitted to the Tennant's tender. There are always some parts which, just by their sole inclusion, impart so much character to a model. On North Eastern tender locomotives one such part has to be the very distinctive tender coal rail. Now I can complete the tender and prime it, just to avoid having to keep cleaning the brass. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Oh boy... You and Arthur have done it again It's also a shame, in some ways, to paint it - there's something about a nicely burnished brass model... Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 It's also a shame, in some ways, to paint it - there's something about a nicely burnished brass model... Mark There is, as you say, something about a nicely burnished model. However, these brass models are about as labour intensive to keep clean as the real things were. Next week, at this time, this will be a slightly duller looking thing and next month at this time will be tarnished and in need of another good burnishing. Many thanks for the kind comments; Arthur designs em' and I build em'. Seems to work. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Dear Mike, I must have looked out of the windows of Hessle Haven signal box several thousand times, but I never saw a Tennant. Attached the most exciting thing I ever saw at Hessle Haven, Two "Type2's" on "Tilcon". Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2017 Do you happen to know what colour the Tennants were painted in LNER days, Mike (or Arthur, or anyone else)? I'm not sure they were repainted by the LNER and think they kept their crimson frames. Any thoughts? Thanks, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2017 I think they all got full LNER passenger green, they won't have had crimson frames since the 1890's at the latest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 The Tenants were actually withdrawn between 1926 and February 1929, so I believe they all did receive repaints in the apple green livery of the LNER at least once. There are a few photographs of these locos on the various NER and LNER reference websites so it should be possible to deduce the frame colour from thse photographs. I can't offer any better info than that. Just as an aside, I looked at my last posting, on this particular thread to see that it was dated September 21st, 2012. My God, was it really five years ago that I did this one? Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 One LNER photo here https://www.lner.info/locos/E/e5.php Early Apple Green livery with the number on Tender. The frames are in shadow , I have never seen any LNER Loco with other than Black frames in this case lined Red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2017 Thanks to all of you. Yeadon says they were lettered LNER, but that doesn't mean they were repainted. B&W photos seem to show the frames a different colour from the s.box and other black areas. I was assuming they were just left in NER livery and re-lettered, but Paul's post suggests they didn't even have crimson frames at the end of NER days. Is that right, Paul? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted October 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2017 I think the livery it is in now is the original or at the latest the T W Worsdell livery, W Worsdell simplyfied it to green and black. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8379/8516110819_dc64084431_b.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2017 Thanks, Paul. I understood only the lining was altered. Record Volume 3 says claret but makes no distinction between periods, and I can't see anything in Ken Hoole's Illustrated Locos. EDIT: found it in Hoole, p.213: all engines 1894-1904 (and all passenger engines to 1922): outside frames, tender frames black lined red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted October 15, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2017 I'd be grateful for some help on the tender. I can't make any sense of the instructions. They say: "Bend the tank well sides (9&10). I have added "Bendy" lines on the inside to make it easier. This is a small radius (about 3mm)." This is all normal for an NER tender: the inner walls of the water tank, where they protrude ahead of the coal gate, have curved edges. So I assume that this is what the instructions are referring to with "tank well sides". However, things are complicated by the fact that parts 9 and 10 in the adjacent diagram, and in the list of parts, are the tender top flares and the tool box base. Presumably, what is meant is parts 4 and 5, referred to in the list of parts as the "coal well walls". OK, so just another mis-numbered part - par for the course with this kit. However, there are no "bendy" lines on the back of 4 and 5, just a single line, suggesting that a right angle has to be made. And the tender top has no curves on these leading corners either, again suggesting that a right angle should be made. And I notice that Mike has made up the part in question with right-angle bends in the photos on this thread. So my question is, why do the instructions say there should be a curve here when all the parts of the kit suggest there should be a right angle? If these tenders were basically a proto-version of the 3038, then I'd expect curves. Thanks a lot in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 I'd be grateful for some help on the tender. I can't make any sense of the instructions. They say: "Bend the tank well sides (9&10). I have added "Bendy" lines on the inside to make it easier. This is a small radius (about 3mm)." This is all normal for an NER tender: the inner walls of the water tank, where they protrude ahead of the coal gate, have curved edges. So I assume that this is what the instructions are referring to with "tank well sides". However, things are complicated by the fact that parts 9 and 10 in the adjacent diagram, and in the list of parts, are the tender top flares and the tool box base. Presumably, what is meant is parts 4 and 5, referred to in the list of parts as the "coal well walls". OK, so just another mis-numbered part - par for the course with this kit. However, there are no "bendy" lines on the back of 4 and 5, just a single line, suggesting that a right angle has to be made. And the tender top has no curves on these leading corners either, again suggesting that a right angle should be made. And I notice that Mike has made up the part in question with right-angle bends in the photos on this thread. So my question is, why do the instructions say there should be a curve here when all the parts of the kit suggest there should be a right angle? If these tenders were basically a proto-version of the 3038, then I'd expect curves. Thanks a lot in advance! Dave, There are, indeed, right angle bends on these tender tank fronts, as you have identified from the photo of the build. I can't comment on the instructions as I didn't have any. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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