Hornby 2 BIL

[dagrizz]

Running the  2 BIL this evening  it suddenly developed  a rather loud  squeek!!!!!!

 

Quick investigation  showed it wasnt  the power  car,  but  the  trailer!

 

Quite an unusual occurance, not  had  a new  unpowered vehicle in any of the scales  I dabble  in SQUEEK  for  some  years!,  

 

Anyway  a tiny drop of lubricant on the axle and the squeek was eliminated.

 

 

Buy some Bachmann Mk 1 coaches and you'll get some more squeaks.

[bazza.]

Thanks Steve,

     I'm considering Kadees for my BR buckeye units, but i they will spoil the appearance of the 2BIL units, that's why i fitted screw couplings, as seen on the real thing. The only way i can couple the units more closely Ken, is by using shorter or adjustable screw couplings, depending on sharpness of curves, so one has to make some compromises. If i fit Kadees to BR gangway units, the "buckeye" will have to be slightly proud of the gangway, since the latter is solid. Hornby's centre coupling is very neat, with it's bar and centre buffer. I'm starting to agree with others, that the collector beam is a bit on the heavy and deep side, but not a great issue. Looking at 2BIL pics, some seem to have acquired the heavy duty SM buffers, does anyone know how many were converted or did any have them from new? I shall add air pipes to hang down by the screw couplings.

     Yes, the person running Hamley's train department is a Hornby employee, Hamley's were also the first place to get the Thompson O1s last December, i was shown one from their stockroom, but they couldn't sell them, since they hadn't received the price code for their computer tills. Life is so complicated.     BK

Hi Brian,

 

The 2 BIL's were built in four batches. The first batch were built in 1935 (2001-2010)

 

A further three batches of 2 BIL's were built. The second batch were built in 1936 (2011-2048), the third in 1937 (2049-2116), and a final batch in 1938(2117-2152)

 

These last three 2 BIL batches had detail differences to the first batch, including  a larger Guards/Luggage area (more space for Hornby's motor bogie), one third class 8 seat compartment replaced with a 4-seat coupe, and a different type of electro-pneumate control gear. 

 

The last batch of 2 BIL units numbered 2117-2152 differed to the first three batches of 2 BIL units in having the large Spencer Moulton self contained buffers instead of the original oblong shank buffers originaly fitted to the other units.

 

I don't know if any of the early built 2 BIL's had their original buffers converted to the Spencer Moulton type, I would imagine that someone on this thread should be able to tell you. 

 

I like your idea of screw coupling your 2 BIL's together. That is how I couple my 4 COR to my 4 BUF, and when I get one of my Hornby 2 BIL's  I was going to screw couple it to my model of a 6 PAN. I don't know if 2 BIL's and 6 PAN's could or did work together , but I have seen a photo of a 4 BUF coupled to a 5 BEL ( both staffed by Pullman ?)

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Bazza,

     One of the books i'm looking at, seems to show SM buffers on units numbered above 2117, which matches your data.The earliest one i've found is 2121, i'll check other books for any altered sets, but i haven't found any so far.

 

                                                              Cheers, Brian.

[SRman]

I don't have any numbers to give you but a few earlier sets received the later buffers after repairs or works visits, for whatever reasons - I'm guessing accident damage would be the most likely reason for changing buffer types, which also means that the buffers at one end of the unit could have differed from those at the other after this.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks SRman,

        Like you say, probably just odd cars got there buffers swapped after mishaps or failures, quite possibly at only one end, which makes things complicated. The original buffers were presumably still good enough on most units, since many many units carried them until the end. I'll probably do at least one unit with SM buffers.

 

                                                          Cheers, Brian. 

[Gwiwer]

Addressing a few points:

 

First a very detailed article relating to theses and contemporaneous units appears on the SEG website and includes comment on detail differences between batches and units which may prove invaluable to modellers.  http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/semifastunit.html

 

Bil (and Hal) units could couple with any other screw-fitted electric units.  So in theory they could have run coupled with Pul, Pan, Bel and Cor units.  However IIRC their control systems differed meaning they were not able to work in multiple and had to be treated as trailer units with the traction current fuses removed.   The gearing was also different as Bils were semi-fast units while those others were express types designed to run at a sustained somewhat higher speed.  Bil and Hal units could match the 50 - 60mph balancing speed of those units but not without warming up some of the wiring over any sustained time.  

 

A lack of lighting in 2Bil units is entirely prototypical.  The interior lights were wired in series on two circuits one for each side of the coach with that on the corridor side also including the lights therein.  It only took one oik to have removed one (and trust me that happened rather a lot) for the entire circuit to be unlit; one out from each circuit would result in no carriage lighting.  I have travelled in them on numerous occasions when there was limited or no lighting available for that reason.

 

Buffers were occasionally exchanged as a result of accidental damage.  The SEG article includes some detail.  The only consideration being that a matched pair must exist at each end though the two ends could differ.

 

The south facing bay platform (platform 3) at Arundel was used by a shuttle service I have discussed earlier in this thread.  It connected into and out of the semi-fast Victoria (and London Bridge in the peaks) - Sutton - Horsham - Bognor / Portsmouth trains and offered connections around the triangle to Littlehampton and Ford.  It was almost invariably worked by a 2Bil and seldom had more passengers aboard than train crew.  Service patterns over the years have changed but at that time there was also a stopping Victoria - Crawley - Littlehampton - Bognor service which was more popular as it avoided a change; that too was often a 2Bil (sometimes two together) until 4Vep units took over.

 

The bay at Arundel was abandoned in around 1972 IIRC when the shuttle ceased.  The route now sees four trains per hour south of Horsham comprised of two portions from each of the two Victoria via Crawley trains.  Apart from one early morning trip in one direction only there is no direct train service between Arundel and Littlehampton and hasn't been for some years; passengers must change at Ford.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Gwiwer

[Stevelewis]

Buy some Bachmann Mk 1 coaches and you'll get some more squeaks.

We have  approx  30 currently,    and   no  squeeks  noted!!!!  ( bought  Bachmann  Mk1s  when  they  were first  released on the market  I have been into the  Hobby  for  many  years!)

Edited February 20, 2013 by Stevelewis

[Sasquatch]

 Another oddity is the lack of outer coupling, so if you buy two, you can't couple them as a 4-car until you've sourced your own couplings to clip into the provided NEM boxes. Having said that, i have bravely ( or foolishly? :-)  ) cut off the integral outer NEM boxes and gone for old-fashioned screw couplings, purely because they look the part. I'm a big fan of automatic remote uncoupling, but not at the expense of the appearance of the front end and how often will i be uncoupling them? Here's the new arrangement, the shunter hasn't got around to connecting the jumper cables yet. I told you it was going to Bognor Regis !

 

                                             Cheers, Brian. 

Don't be too hasty, in An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol.4 there's a note refering to a 2BIL being used to shunt banana vans in Portsmouth.

Always on the look out for a prototype for anything!

[Guest oldlugger]

Does anyone know what motor arrangement the 2 Bil has? Is it like the 4 VEP using a Hornby class 73 motor bogie, or is it more like the Bachmann EMUs with a motor and single cardan shaft drive? I'm wondering whether it would lend itself to a straight forward P4 conversion using the Ultrascale class 73 wheel set, or whether drastic surgery is required?

 

Cheers

Simon

[John M Upton]

The south facing bay platform (platform 3) at Arundel was used by a shuttle service I have discussed earlier in this thread.  It connected into and out of the semi-fast Victoria (and London Bridge in the peaks) - Sutton - Horsham - Bognor / Portsmouth trains and offered connections around the triangle to Littlehampton and Ford.  It was almost invariably worked by a 2Bil and seldom had more passengers aboard than train crew.  Service patterns over the years have changed but at that time there was also a stopping Victoria - Crawley - Littlehampton - Bognor service which was more popular as it avoided a change; that too was often a 2Bil (sometimes two together) until 4Vep units took over.

 

The bay at Arundel was abandoned in around 1972 IIRC when the shuttle ceased.  The route now sees four trains per hour south of Horsham comprised of two portions from each of the two Victoria via Crawley trains.  Apart from one early morning trip in one direction only there is no direct train service between Arundel and Littlehampton and hasn't been for some years; passengers must change at Ford.

 

And here is the finger board for it:

 

Of course any sound file for a 2-BIL recreating this train departing from Barnham will need to have the sound of the driver grumbling about there being no one to take him off his last Bognor whilst a smoke generator will be required for the ciggerette smoke in the front cab!!!

[brushman47544]

First off, I've received an email from Hattons this morning to confirm they've processed my pre-order for a DCC fitted BR green version R3162X, so they are now being shipped out to retailers that are not Hornby concessions. I preordered on 18 December in case anyone is wondering about their own pre-orders being fulfilled.

 

Addressing a few points:

 

The south facing bay platform (platform 3) at Arundel was used by a shuttle service I have discussed earlier in this thread.  It connected into and out of the semi-fast Victoria (and London Bridge in the peaks) - Sutton - Horsham - Bognor / Portsmouth trains and offered connections around the triangle to Littlehampton and Ford.  It was almost invariably worked by a 2Bil and seldom had more passengers aboard than train crew.  Service patterns over the years have changed but at that time there was also a stopping Victoria - Crawley - Littlehampton - Bognor service which was more popular as it avoided a change; that too was often a 2Bil (sometimes two together) until 4Vep units took over.

 

As I also posted earlier I was a mid/late 1960s user of the Arundel - Littlehampton shuttle, getting off the Victoria fasts from Dorking, and my 2-BIL will be given headcode 1 for that service when it arrives. In those days I remember the shuttles being quite full...

[Guest oldlugger]

Hi Simon,

 

I'm sure it will be one like this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-X6432-BRIGHTON-BELLE-DRIVE-UNIT-COMPLETE-NEW-SPARES-/321045727083?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid=111000&algo=REC.CURRENT&ao=1&asc=27&meid=5726766026149580348&pid=100033&prg=1011&rk=1&sd=321045727083%2

 

There could be a combination of wheel and gear in the Ultrascale range that would suit.

 

 

Good luck!

 

Colin

Thanks Colin. It looks very like the class 73 motor bogie so the Ultrascale wheels should fit. If anyone who already has one of these EMUs was able to photograph the underside of the trailing bogies that would be very helpful, to show how the wheels are held in place. The Bachmann trailing bogies are hard to convert to P4 so I am hoping that the 2 Bil just has pin point bearings allowing a straight swap of wheels.

 

Simon

Edited February 20, 2013 by oldlugger

[New Haven Neil]

I had no interest in 3rd rail modelling until I discovered St Mary Hoo..........I'm sunk now.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

    I just stumbled across this Flickr album photo (and others) of unit 2088 derailed at Barnham in 1962. Mercifully, no one was badly injured and bizarrely, the train's passengers are all standing around on the platforms.   

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/3358812021/in/set-72157615369425444/    BK

[bazza.]

I see that a number of suppliers are offering the chance to pre-order from the next batch with number R3162A.  Does anyone know if this will have a different running number from the first batch (2134)?

Hi RFS,

 

I have just received my e-mail telling me that my pre-order for R3162X (DCC fitted) has been changed to a pre-order for R3162AX due in June this year.

 

Like you I would like to know if Hornby are producing another run of this model, will it have the same running number.

 

As my old DCC unit has only 99 locomotive allocations. I use the last two numbers of locomotives or EMU's for my DCC model ID. I hav'nt got 99 locomotives or EMU's, but I was lucky not to have allocated numbers 34 or 90 (NRM 2BIL unit 2090) to a model yet.

 

I know that I can re-number this future model, and I will re-paint the shiny grey roofs, but it seems wrong to have to re-number a brand new model as well.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[brushman47544]

Hi RFS,

 

I have just received my e-mail telling me that my pre-order for R3162X (DCC fitted) has been changed to a pre-order for R3162AX due in June this year.

 

Like you I would like to know if Hornby are producing another run of this model, will it have the same running number.

 

As my old DCC unit has only 99 locomotive allocations. I use the last two numbers of locomotives or EMU's for my DCC model ID. I hav'nt got 99 locomotives or EMU's, but I was lucky not to have allocated numbers 34 or 90 (NRM 2BIL unit 2090) to a model yet.

 

I know that I can re-number this future model, and I will re-paint the shiny grey roofs, but it seems wrong to have to re-number a brand new model as well.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

 

I think it is almost certain that the A version will have a different unit number. This will also encourage people who have managed to secure one from the first batch and want a second without having to renumber to buy one. So it should have greater sales potential.

 

Once again this announcement is interesting in that it suggests Hornby can make changes to its future production slots at relatively short notice. I wonder what will be delayed as a result...

[Guest oldlugger]

Could someone tell me what diameter wheels in 4mm scale the 2 BIL has? I would imagine that the will be something like 14mm. I am considering converting the new Hornby unit to P4. Also, does the Hornby unit use pin point axles for the non powered bogies, allowing a straight swap of wheels? Any photos of the underside of the Hornby model would be most helpful.

 

Many thanks

Simon

[Madcaravanner]

No experience of the 2BIL but all my recent new buys of Hornby rolling stock has pin point axles 

 

if that isa help to you 

[Adrian Wintle]

I'd point you to the 2BIL thread in the Hornby section, but you've already asked a variation the same question there.

 

I know there is a lot of chaff in that thread with people getting upset that Hornby misjudged the demand a year ago when they made the production decision, but I expect that your question will eventually be answered.

 

Adrian

Edited February 21, 2013 by Adrian Wintle

[Miss Prism]

Still no 2 BIL for me - was it something that I said ?!

Yes. You won't be getting yours until all the mags have announced it's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

(And I note Mr Kohler has avoided the motor bogie question in his response to MREMag.)

[tender]

Could someone tell me what diameter wheels in 4mm scale the 2 BIL has? I would imagine that the will be something like 14mm. I am considering converting the new Hornby unit to P4. Also, does the Hornby unit use pin point axles for the non powered bogies, allowing a straight swap of wheels? Any photos of the underside of the Hornby model would be most helpful.

 

Many thanks

Simon

14mm, pin point axles (non powered bogie), power bogie same as 5bel with a few detail differences.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ray.

[Guest oldlugger]

Brilliant! Many thanks Ray; that was very kind of you to post these excellent pics. I can see possibilities here especially as I already have some Ultrascale class 73 P4 wheels (a tad under scale at 13mm).

 

All the best

Simon

Edited February 21, 2013 by oldlugger

[Miss Prism]

What exactly was the question that MREMag posed to Mr K?

Someone on MREMag wanted clarification on the BRM review referring to 'incorrect dimensions of the outer bogie of the trailer car' (I don't know what the exact words of the review were, perhaps someone could clarify), and Kohler responded merely that the official drawings "show 8'9" wheelbase for the motor bogies", i.e. he avoided the issue of the different frame shapes, presumably on the basis that Hornby think the prototype has two drive bogies...

Edited February 21, 2013 by Miss Prism

[Guest oldlugger]

Too true Mike.

 

Anyway, as a bit of a tease here is a very nice photo of a real 2 NIL that escaped from the pre order scheme unnoticed...

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00001-d-salmon-2xBil-2-b.JPG

 

And another that jumped the boat from China...

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/000001-d-salmon-2xBil-7b.JPG

 

Cheers

Simon

Edited February 21, 2013 by oldlugger

[The Stationmaster]

Too true Mike.

 

Anyway, as a bit of a tease here is a very nice photo of a real 2 NIL that escaped from the pre order scheme unnoticed...

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00001-d-salmon-2xBil-2-b.JPG

 

And another that jumped the boat from China...

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/000001-d-salmon-2xBil-7b.JPG

 

Cheers

Simon

Very nice links there Simon.  For some obscure reason I always rather liked the look of the ends with the yellow patch and the black triangle - s'pose it was because it was the Southern carrying on doing things in its own way.