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Pencarrow: pg225 Cracking on with C&L turnouts (31.5mm)

7mm Southern Cornwall Bodmin Withered Arm Bulleid Maunsell Beattie Clay




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#1 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:04

Pencarrow - A Cornish odyssey set on the former LSWR lines around Bodmin.

1. Intro
It has occurred to me that since originally creating this thread back in March 2013, my thoughts and ideas have moved on somewhat.

Back then the idea was a layout with a 12' scenic section as shown in Part 2 below.

The move to 7mm was spurred on by Dapol's (since cancelled) Beattie Well Tank and a number of threads on here showing others progressing well in the 'senior scale', such as David Siddall's 'first tentative steps' thread. My outline ideas for a layout were inspired by Gordon Gravett's 7mm Modelling books.

Between then and February 2014 we arrived at the plan below, which has a 9' scenic section:
ScreenHunter_07 Feb. 25 20.48.jpg

2. Track Plans
First Stab AnyRail Track Plan
o Gauge 2.jpg

Martin Wynne's Templot Track Plan (thanks Martin)
post-1103-0-04095200-1364147359_thumb.png

A re-think on the length of the layout.
9x3 version RH Fiddle.jpg

And a swap in the handing.
9x3 version LH Fiddle.jpg

A transfer to Templot.
market_street_2014_02_24_1206_15.png

An overlay with the revised AnyRail plan showing some changes.
ScreenHunter_03 Feb. 24 07.34.jpg

Key features.
ScreenHunter_06 Feb. 25 20.47.jpg

3. Stock Building (Plastic)

The start of wagon building, wagon progress update #1,
Bill Bishop talks about coachng stock
25T Pill Box Brake Issues...ooops!, 25T Pill Box planking mods
LNER Toads on the line
Thinking about suitable wagon stock
Paul throws a LSWR brake into the pot
Some more modelling at last - Parkside 12T LMS Open
Wagon compensation
Rob has another go at getting me to join the dark side (WR)
Weight of wagons
Chat on couplings (also an off-thread discussion about Lincs couplings)


4. Stock Building (Brass)
In July 2014, suitably encouraged (pushed and abused) by various folk on here, I made a start on building my first every brass (well NS) kit. In the absence of a suitable (accurate and available) kit for a Beattie Well Tank, I decided to go instead for a kit of the loco that replaced them on the B&W - the GWR 1366 Dock Tank produced by Agenoria. The build is covered by a separate thread here. It's been a massive learning curve for me but here are a few photos of the key stages so far:
IMAG1026.jpg

IMAG1296.jpg

IMAG1311.jpg

IMAG1458.jpg

IMAG2360.jpg

IMAG2465.jpg

Having reached an impasse with the 1366, and having received a second loco kit for Christmas 2014, I decided to have a go at my Connoisseur LSWR Adams O2 0-4-4T. This has been an all together different building experience and a pleasure so far. The build thread is here.

And this is where I'm up to as of the start of April 2015.

IMAG4084 - Copy.jpg

So very nice to build something that's been well thought out, where all the bits fit and the cast parts are of a good quality.

5. Track Building
In early February 2014 I thought I'd finally bite the bullet and have a go at track building. After a fair amount of reading around the pros and cons of 7mm standards I decided to go for 31.5mm and bought some lovely gauges from Deb's of this parish.
IMAG4990.jpg

A few progress shots are included below:
IMAG4984.jpg
IMAG4991.jpg
IMAG5044.jpg
IMAG5047.jpg
IMAG5067.jpg

As of February 2014 the second point was started and attention turned to finding out more about the sleeper spacings on plain track panels. Much of the discussion was held off-thread in the LSWR Sleeper Spacings discussion. But in addition Old Gringo posted a few observations on the track around Bodmin (Old Gringo talks about track panels) in this thread. This was later followed up by more discussion on panel lengths and sleeper spacings here.

Out of interest, the image below shows a comparison on Templot of 4 different configurations of track panel used by the LSWR / SR:
ScreenHunter_01 Mar. 03 22.18.jpg

The data used to generate these panels in Templot is in the PDF below:
Attached File  SR Plain Track Sleeper Spacings V2.pdf   180.79KB   104 downloads

In March 2013 there was a mass chair trim - 600 done in 2 hours!
post-6675-0-06840300-1394050548_thumb.jpg
post-6675-0-12045900-1394056593_thumb.jpg

6. Signalling
The image below includes the whole of the layout's trackplan, including the imaginary off-scene closure of the loop. I know nowt about working out how a trackplan would be signalled and controlled and so I asked for a few points as per the questions on the image.


I've had lots of support in devising the first drafts of the signalling plans and the ones below are drawn up from the fantastic details provided by Mike (StationMaster):
ScreenHunter_02 Feb. 28 19.30.jpg
ScreenHunter_01 Feb. 28 19.29.jpg

Thanks to Paul Cambridge I've now got the plan below to stock inside the signal box (when I've built it) and to hang on the wall...
Pencarrow Bridge Version 2 by Paul Cambridge.jpg

Cheers to Mike and Paul for all their assistance.


7. Scenic Treatment and Inspiration
A summary of the ideas I have for scenic treatment and the prototype structures that could appear on the layout.
ScreenHunter_03 Feb. 27 22.48.jpg

Some discussion here.

8. Buildings

My 7mm cheat sheet
Building the 'Wenford Bridge Goods Depot', the fag packet sketch, coming together, the roof goes on,

May 2014 saw mock ups of all the major buildings being made.
IMAG5629.jpg
The station building will be based on the Colonel Stephens one at Calstock. Since that has long gone, instead I'm using details of Bodiam on the KESR (another Col Stephens jobbie).

Here's the mock up: http://www.rmweb.co....1465/?p=1453401
9. Baseboard Construction

Stubby starts off talk of baseboard construction

March 2014 saw the board construction cutting list planned.
ScreenHunter_02 Mar. 10 21.57.jpg

ScreenHunter_03 Mar. 10 21.57.jpg

Board 1 done http://www.rmweb.co....1465/?p=1384598
IMG_3913.JPG

Board 2 completed http://www.rmweb.co....1465/?p=1439846
IMAG5515.jpg

April 2014 and the three main boards were completed! http://www.rmweb.co....1465/?p=1441440
IMAG5557.jpg

And placed up in the train room.
IMAG5574.jpg

10. Useful External Links

Gauge O Guild Traders page

AC Stadden Figures
Agenoria Loco Kits (AM62 GWR 1366)
Connoisseur kits (LSWR 24T Brake, Queen Mary Brake, other wagons, LSWR G6 and LSWR O2)
CRT Loco and coach kits (1366 and Bulleid coaches)
Laurie Griffin Minatures (Adams Radial, O2 and T9)
Martin Finney (Adams Radial and T9)
Meteor Models (LSWR O2 and LBSCR E1R)
Modern Outline (Q1!)
Omen Figures
Pete Armstrong 'Heroes of the Footplate' figures
Phoenix (SandD) figures and vehicles
Purple Primer figure painting
Railtec Transfers (O13 Clay, PO WOpen Wagons)
Roxey Mouldings (G6, Adams Radial, O2, Beattie Well Tank)
South West Digital DCC Sound
Scorpio Kits (GWR 8750 and B Set)
WEP Models, brass wagon kits (Going to need a few of their CM34 GWR O13 Clay wagons)
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#2 PD&SWJR

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:09

Methinks you have seen the light and gone 7mm??  If so, join the club, you know it makes sense!!


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#3 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:11

Well, I've been a 4mm modeller all my modelling life. My interests started with the LMS, as my first HST trainset failed to work and a Duchess set was the only available alternative. The majority of this time though has seen my interests end up in the SW on England, modelling and learning about the Southern's Withered Arm. Treneglos (see link in my signature), built along with Damian and John was a result of this interest. 

 

Treneglos was built 10 years ago and since then I've collected more suitable 00 stock, got suitably diverted working on various other projects (DitD, Outlaw and BCB) but have totally failed to build my own dream BR(S) terminus layout set in North Cornwall. Work has been and will continue to take a shed load of time and therefore I've come to the conclusion I need to aim at a smaller more achievable project until time is less of an issue. 

 

I toyed with the idea of something in 4mm based on Lyme Regis, and that's still attractive but didn't quite hit the spot. Over the last year I noticed I was spending more time looking at the Slaters and Parkside 7mm wagon kits. Then last year I accidentally bought a Slaters kit for an open shock wagon. Expectations were high. Reality was more of a disappointment, but I was was relieved when David Siddall found the same in his early posts.

 

At Christmas I was fortunate enough to be bought some Parkside wagon kits by the in-laws (thanks Mike and Joan). These were much better - the mouldings were crisper, the parts fitted better and the range included a SR brake van. Nice. 

 

Since then thoughts have been turning to something based on the Bodmin / Wenford / Wadebridge neck of the woods. Something involving slate or clay, a Beattie Well Tank, a Bulleid or Maunsell BCK and, perhaps much later, an O2. 

 

The main learning point is that moving to 7mm is almost like starting out in railway modelling all over again. Finding the suppliers, working through different standards and getting your head around size / scale.


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#4 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:33

Methinks you have seen the light and gone 7mm??  If so, join the club, you know it makes sense!!

 

I should also add you to the 'blame list' too Paul for Kelly Bray....


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#5 ELTEL

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:40

Well that beer I was going to buy you at Alley Palley will now have to wait till the Telford "O" Gauge bash in September normally a reasonable real ale on sale

Good luck with 7mm

Eltel
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#6 steve fay

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:40

Welcome aboard.
Your right it is like starting all over again and finding your feet. One thing I wasn't prepared for is there is some rubbish stuff available and I thought O gauge was all about the extra detail, but once you've started I don't think there's any going back.
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#7 PD&SWJR

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:52

I should also add you to the 'blame list' too Paul for Kelly Bray....

I'll take it like a man!  

 

Just beware that in 7mm, you can end up modelling some really minute detail, such as the bolts that keep the goods shed doors shut.  Or even more bizarrely, Cornish Pasties.... honest!  Out of the banter that is the SWAG RMWeb Taunton 2013 show, grew an earnest discussion on these west country delicacies.  As this is a modelling web, I had the inspiration for a whimsical micro-diorama.... :crazy:


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#8 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:57

Welcome aboard.
Your right it is like starting all over again and finding your feet. One thing I wasn't prepared for is there is some rubbish stuff available and I thought O gauge was all about the extra detail, but once you've started I don't think there's any going back.

 

Thanks Steve

 

I also got caught out by the assumption that everything 7mm would be better because it was bigger and more expensive than 4mm. I was heartily disappointed by the Slaters kit and have realised, having read threads on here, that there's things that need working on even on the better kits. The problem with 7mm is that, because it's bigger, the errors are more noticeable. 

 

Trying to get my head around track at the moment. Almost bought a length of PECO flexi at the last show but forgot. Now contemplating knocking up a length of C&L. Still scared of building points, but hopefully it's easier in the senior scale, better for my naff soldering. 


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#9 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:59

Well that beer I was going to buy you at Alley Palley will now have to wait till the Telford "O" Gauge bash in September normally a reasonable real ale on sale

Good luck with 7mm

Eltel

 

Drop the pint off on the way back up country Terry!



#10 bbishop

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 22:51

Chris,

 

You will need to ask questions before you start any projects.  For example, I enjoy building Slaters GUVs and CCTs, but didn't get on too well with the Maunsell / Lynes coaches.  A strange plastic, a bit like a toasted cheese sandwich.

 

Bill


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#11 ELTEL

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 22:56

Also seen a few disappointing reports on Skytrex 7 mm products

#12 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 22:57

Chris,

 

You will need to ask questions before you start any projects. 

 

Oh yes! 

 

Two main questions at the moment: which track and SR coaching stock?



#13 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 22:59

Also seen a few disappointing reports on Skytrex 7 mm products

 

Saw them at Donny show in Feb - not impressed. Great for the garden railway and playing trains though. 



#14 durham light infantry

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 23:02

Oh yes! 

 

Two main questions at the moment: which track and SR coaching stock?

 

C & L, and Slaters. Building the Maunsells was covered in an MRJ a couple of years ago, the GUV, PMV and Van B and C  are excellent.

 

Mike

 

P.S. Big fan of Treneglos, you are going to do something inspirational in 7mm


Edited by durham light infantry, 22 March 2013 - 23:03 .

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#15 2ManySpams

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 23:06

C & L, and Slaters. Building the Maunsells was covered in an MRJ a couple of years ago, the GUV, PMV and Van B and C  are excellent.

 

Mike

 

P.S. Big fan of Treneglos, you are going to do something inspirational in 7mm

 

Thank you. 



#16 trisonic

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:31

Following this......

 

I got interested because the scale might be better for both my eyes and my stubby, calloused fingertips - not sure whether to try 1/48 US or 7mm UK. Finescale, 1/48 models are like hens teeth locally....and all the road models are 1/43 (why)?

 

 

Best, Pete.


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#17 2ManySpams

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:19

Welcome along Pete!

 

Morning folks,

 

My original plan for this weekend was to pop over to the C&L stand at the Ally Pally show and get a few trial bits and bobs. Unfortunately I'm working this weekend and can't attend the show with BCB. Thankfully Damian has gone along and I've decided to ring an order through to him whilst he's at the show...

 

Like Mr Siddall, I've concluded that a C&L Turnout in a Bag is a good place to start as it includes just about everything and the roller gauges. A B6 seems to be a good choice and should be usable in my cunning plan.

 

I'm also toying with the idea of ordering some track but I'm torn between going for a box of 8 lengths of flexi (F7STR) or getting the component parts 8'6" sleepers (7SL101A), 3 bolt chairs (7CH101A), rail (7RA101A) and 60' panel template. Any advice?

 

Oh and a stupid question - roughly how many sleepers are there in a 1m length of (60' panel) track? I'm trying to get a measure on how much track a bag of 100 sleepers will build....

 

I'll also order two sets of Slaters spoked wagon wheels - the Parkside kits I'm building have been packed with 3-hole disc but my reference shots show they should really be spoked. 


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#18 Jon Gwinnett

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:46

I think 100 sleepers should do about four panels (from memory, don't shoot me etc etc) although I don't have SR track specs to hand.

 

I spent about 10 years doing 7mm, inspired by Hursley and Ditchling Green (try and get a copy of MRJ 50 if you don't already have it) but gave up when I concluded I didn't have enough space. The stock went to my father, who built Chagford, which was lovely. Nowadays wondering about getting some of the stock back and doing a 7mm micro.

 

Beware skytrex wagons - fine for garden layouts (30ft rule) but not so good for up close. 

 

As I'm sure you've realised, some things work just so much better in 7mm, like three link couplings and sprung buffers. but beware, texture becomes incredibly important - far to many 7mm layouts have beautiful stock but crude surroundings  (IMHO)


Edited by Jon Gwinnett, 23 March 2013 - 08:51 .

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#19 Donw

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:05

At about 2ft 6ins between sleepers it works out at 50 per metre. The flexi track doesn't have chair detail so in station areas where it often means cutting up small pieces between turnout I would make up the track from parts but perhaps use the flexi track for long runs.

 

Welcome to 0 gauge.

 

Don


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#20 PD&SWJR

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:18

.......

Beware skytrex wagons - fine for garden layouts (30ft rule) but not so good for up close. 

......

I picked up a Skytrex wagon for £15 last year, the 'Suncole' coke version.  The intention is to fit new wheel sets and really go to town on the weathering, replaced planks, BR numbering (Pxxxxx) on black patch panels, real 'coke' load etc..  For the money, it's worth a bash just to develop the artistic side of modelling.


Edited by PD&SWJR, 23 March 2013 - 09:19 .

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#21 2ManySpams

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:20

Thanks folks.

 

The fag packet plan I have at the moment has sort of ended up a bit Ditchling Greenish. 6 Turnouts fitted in a 3'x12' (max) scenic section. I'm having a play with the C&L templates in AnyRail but it's taking a bit of time getting my head around the difference in scale! Oh and working out AnyRail and getting points not on baseboard joints!

 

I'm using B6 turnouts as a starting point - does this sound about right for locos like the Beattie Well Tank and O2? The biggest item of stock is likely to be a Bulleid or Maunsell BCK coach.



#22 David Siddall

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:24

...roughly how many sleepers are there in a 1m length of (60' panel) track? I'm trying to get a measure on how much track a bag of 100 sleepers will build....

Um... the real track experts would know but I had to go upstairs and count them. 2 x Timbertracks 60' panels (just over 1m) = 52 sleepers.

 

Still reeling slightly from the citation but as my middle daughter frequently reminds me... "Most things are your fault Dad, even if they aren't!" :-)

 

However... since your new project will undoubtedly be awash with all the atmosphere and superbly observed modelling of Treneglos it'll be a compulsive and inspiring 'follow'. Nuff said really... :-)

 

David

 

PS... (and here comes the heresy)... on a compact branch layout which'll only feature short wheelbase motive power you might like to try A5 turnouts rather than B6s?


Edited by David Siddall, 23 March 2013 - 09:45 .

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#23 cromptonnut

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:24

You may find joining the Gauge O Guild useful.

 

One of the big struggles I found when I started playing in 7mm was the lack of traders I could find, then I found this useful list: http://www.gauge0guild.com/x-links.asp

 

However, one of the big Guild shows is a great discovery to find out just what is available - Kettering and Telford should both be within your reach.


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#24 2ManySpams

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:27

Thanks all for the assistance - much appreciated.

 

Looking forward to this! 

 

Right better get back to work (job not modelling).


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#25 PD&SWJR

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:28

Thanks folks.

 

The fag packet plan I have at the moment has sort of ended up a bit Ditchling Greenish. 6 Turnouts fitted in a 3'x12' (max) scenic section. I'm having a play with the C&L templates in AnyRail but it's taking a bit of time getting my head around the difference in scale!

 

I'm using B6 turnouts as a starting point - does this sound about right for locos like the Beattie Well Tank and O2? The biggest item of stock is likely to be a Bulleid or Maunsell BCK coach.

'Kelly Bray' is 16' 6" x 1' 9" deep.  It has 4 turnouts and a single slip.  I used Slaters 1:6 templates and my Beattie Well tank and O2 are fine for shunting 4 wheel goods stock through the point work.  Even the Adams Radial runs OK through the points, but you cannot shunt the 58' coaches through the crossovers.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 7mm, Southern, Cornwall, Bodmin, Withered Arm, Bulleid, Maunsell, Beattie, Clay

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