What have you done with your Keyser kit

[NigelP]

Dean Outside Frame 0-6-0 Goods

 

Next episode in the kit build - the cab interior. Having decided to have a more detailed backhead I finally decided on a 14xx backhead (Dapol detailing component) from Mainly Trains. Not quite prototypical, as it has a down-and-under regulator and is fitted for autocoach operation, but it's a lot better than the original K's (which sat too high). I also ordered an etch of a reverser lever (Ian Rice) again from Mainly Trains. The bits finally arrived on Saturday (we stll have Saturday delivery in the US), so a start was made over the weekend.

 

The white metal backhead casting is quite deep and so the remainder of the backhead was filed flush with the front cab sheet. I also removed what remained of the cab floor, and filed the sides flush. I soldered a support from brass sheet to the frames under the cab floor and between the wheels so that it was flush with the body floor. The new floor will rest on this. The splashers are going to be a bit wider than the prototype (a combination of old Romford wheels and slighter under gauge EM) and the cab floor will be slightly narrower, but there's still room for the volute springs. I then did a rough test of a new cab floor made from 0.005" brass sheet (cut with the tin-snips after first drawing it up in CorelDraw) and the backhead propped in place. I think it looks OK, so the next step will be to make one up using the jewelers saw with the splasher sides soldered to the floor. The backhead still needs to be slightly higher, I'll go with 0.01" brass for the floor, 0.005" for the splasher sides and tops. I soldered up the reverser lever as well, nice looking piece of kit.

 

That's it for the moment, as i need to work on the narrow gauge Baldwin. Pictures tell the story.

 

Nigel

 

 

 

[Brassey]

The cab interior is beginning to look good.  I'll have to post some more pics of my ex-K's Dean Goods which is getting a similar treatment.

 

Peter

[Coach bogie]

One conversion from the K's outside frame 2361 class is to remove the from driving wheels, fabricate a new outside axlebox or morph one from a Wills metro tank and you have a 2-4-0 Stella class.

 

I recently sold my Finney one as I have a spare K's for the conversion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[NigelP]

One conversion from the K's outside frame 2361 class is to remove the from driving wheels, fabricate a new outside axlebox or morph one from a Wills metro tank and you have a 2-4-0 Stella class.

 

I recently sold my Finney one as I have a spare K's for the conversion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Interesting conversion. I've only got Russell Volume 1 to hand, so the usual disclaimer. Several things struck me. The 35xx sand boxes were further back. That big bearing box for the front wheels and the over-slung springs on the frames looks to be more Dean Single than Metro. Were the chimneys different? I think new frames from the front driving wheels forward are going to be required, as the front wheels were 3'8" in diameter compared to the driving wheels of 5'2" diameter (which means a different axle height), and there is an integral frame step between the front wheels and front driving wheels. I'll be interested in seeing how the conversion goes. I was at one point contemplating a conversion to the earlier Dean Outside Frame Goods with an S2B boiler and the dome further forward. Not difficult, but what do I do with the B4 boiler and firebox? Scrap white metal!

 

Nigel

[NigelP]

Just remembered, the Dean 1661 class 0-6-0 pannier used the same frames. The body from the Hornby 27xx class is pretty close. Although just using the frames from the Keyser kit is a bit wasteful. Etched ones in N/S would be more appropriate, so I'm drawing some up, as well as some for the Stella 35xx (help fill the etch sheet). I may use them on the current kit build, as those spring holders on the W/M ones are a bit fragile for my sausage fingers. Plus they're a poor fit on the running plate.

 

Nigel

[Coach bogie]

Interesting conversion. I've only got Russell Volume 1 to hand, so the usual disclaimer. Several things struck me. The 35xx sand boxes were further back. That big bearing box for the front wheels and the over-slung springs on the frames looks to be more Dean Single than Metro. Were the chimneys different? I think new frames from the front driving wheels forward are going to be required, as the front wheels were 3'8" in diameter compared to the driving wheels of 5'2" diameter (which means a different axle height), and there is an integral frame step between the front wheels and front driving wheels. I'll be interested in seeing how the conversion goes. I was at one point contemplating a conversion to the earlier Dean Outside Frame Goods with an S2B boiler and the dome further forward. Not difficult, but what do I do with the B4 boiler and firebox? Scrap white metal!

 

Nigel

 

The conversion is based on an existing one completed by a good friend. The Wills Metro frames I have, do not include the axlebox and the correct one can be fitted. Talking to my friend he has a master for the conversion and is going to cast up a few, so I may not have the challenge of morphing the two togther. Chimneys, I will sort out at the time but he used one from the Mitchell pool, and I will no doubt do the same.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

While most modellers are getting excited over the recent Bachmann release, two friends both ran theirs in on my line and the haulage capabilities was not sufficient for trains on my line.

 

Not exactly mothballed , but K's 3201 St Michael had not been run for a while. A quick service and clean up of the paint work and 3201 is back on the layout hauling trains of six kit builds up my inclines. The joy of heavy white metal bodies and tenders balanced on the drawbar to keep the rear drivers on the track

Mike Wiltshire

Edited February 17, 2014 by Coach bogie

[hayfield]

Mike

 

Folk forget the fact that heavy locos pull more stock, OK a well built chassis, decent wheels and motor also helps, and keeping the wheels in touch with the rails assists the electrical pick up. The weight of these locos also adds to feel of the loco when held in the hand

 

By the way, nice loco

Edited February 17, 2014 by hayfield

[NigelP]

I finally got around to making a start on the tender last week. It was soldered it up using 100°C solder, although with the castings being 2mm thick it turned out to be more like welding. It's a solid lump, weighs a lot, and nothing is ever going to drop off. A fair amount of filing and cutting was required. There are still gaps around the coal well sides that need filling. The tender mushroom air vents were not that great, new ones will have to be sourced. The side coal sheets were removed, as I wanted to backdate it to around 1900-1905. It has a water fountain pipe for the water return from the crosshead pump, a hangover from the broad-gauge tenders that disappeared with the advent of steam injectors. I was not happy with the domed water filler and separate water access cover. Looking at Russell (GWR engines volume 1) and my Hornby Dean Goods a half-lozenge dome/filler would appear to be more appropriate for the period I am modeling.

 

I also made-up some axle frames using a Branchlines etch. This comes with brake gear and a white metal water scoop. No 2mm bearings, but some 2mm brass tubing is supplied that holds the axles and act as frame spacers.

I was just about to start bashing the Hornby Dean Goods tender for the dome /filler when I remembered I had two Dapol ex-Airfix City of Truro kits in the spares box. These are a useful source of bits and pieces, brake standards, vacuum tubes, etc., and the kit contains a Dean tender with the lozenge dome/filler, which just needs some hinges. Looking at the kits, I realized that I could in fact do a representation of a tender with the axle springs above the frames. Not quite accurate, as the tender body would have been narrower. There is a nice photo of one of these (with coal rails) behind a Dean outside frame 0-6-0 goods in 1904 on page 76 of Russell (volume 1). I removed the springs, hangers and axle boxes from the sides of one kit using a fine flexible saw. The frames were cleaned-up using a flat file and #600-emery paper. I also removed the coal sheets and the handrail moldings from the front, sides and ends of the tender. The axle boxes and lower hanger bushes were glued back onto the frames after cleaning-up; for the springs I used the driving wheel springs (2_^1/2 per kit, the two half springs were glued together), which were glued onto the body with a small styrene spacer at the back. The spacer will be removed when the glue has set at the bottom of the springs. I used some styrene rod to represent the hangers. The tender was put together using styrene glue. I fabricated the tender coal rails from brass rod (0.8mm diameter) soldered-up flat and bent to shape. They are fixed in place with CAA. It passes my QC standard (i.e., it looks OK from 3 feet away). Needs some tidying-up of the rails, and some 1200 grit on the body work.

 

 

 

This was certainly more cost effective than a brass tender kit (£6.50 for the City kit and $3.69 for the brass rod versus £40.00+). It now looks like I have 2 tenders and one chassis. I’m going with the Dapol tender for the moment, if only to keep the weight down. I don't need to get some balance (as described above for the 32xx) but I’ll find a use for the white metal one.

 

That is it for the moment. Next up will be the axle bearing tubes; the wheels and axles (Alan Gibson, EM gauge), the water scoop and rod, the brake rods and brakes; and some handrails using bass rod. I have some Maygib Dean tapered sprung buffers from the spares box as well. I need to source those mushroom vents, and fabricate a water fountain pipe for the Dapol tender. Plus I’ll need one of those communicating/warning bells on the side of the tender and a bracket for the line in the tender when it was used with passenger stock (like the Dean Goods, these engines were in fact designated mixed-traffic). A bell from a GWR autocoach should suite. I have some back in Montréal, so that will have to wait a few weeks.

 

Nigel

 

 

[NigelP]

While most modellers are getting excited over the recent Bachmann release, two friends both ran theirs in on my line and the haulage capabilities was not sufficient for trains on my line.

 

Not exactly mothballed , but K's 3201 St Michael had not been run for a while. A quick service and clean up of the paint work and 3201 is back on the layout hauling trains of six kit builds up my inclines. The joy of heavy white metal bodies and tenders balanced on the drawbar to keep the rear drivers on the trackIMG_0748.JPG

Mike Wiltshire

Looks like the latest 4-4-0 offering from Bachmann suffers from the same problem as their City - 3 bogie clerestory carriages and it's reached it's limit, and that's on the flat. No room in the body for weight either. Same problem with Hornby's Dean Single offering. The real things pulled 6-8 carriages without any problems. Airfix were onto something with their magnetic wheels and steel rails.

 

Nigel

[N15class]

. Airfix were onto something with their magnetic wheels and steel rails.

 

Nigel

Triang did this many years before Airfix,

[devonseasider]

Airfix were onto something with their magnetic wheels and steel rails.

 

Nigel

 

Think you'll find that was Triang's (?) / Hornby's (?) "Magnadhesion".

[twiggy1969]

ks bulldog with a perservance compensated chassis ds10 motor and branchline single stage  gearbox i think

 

[NigelP]

Think you'll find that was Triang's (?) / Hornby's (?) "Magnadhesion".

Airfix on the brain (or air, more likely, given my advancing years). Triang "Magnadhesion" it was. Reportedly runs better on steel rather than N/S rail (although both are magnetic, so another myth?). Which I keep meaning to try, as nickel does oxidize slowly and the oxide coating is non-conductive .The reason (I have read) why we all need to go over the track on a regular basis with the cleaning rubber. I suspect dust, dirt and oil are more likely.

 

I had another look at the K's tender last night. I'll start backdating to an earlier version of water filler and attach some coal rails. Prototypical even with the springs on the frames.Shame to waste all that solder. Given the variety of tenders running in the early 1900's I suspect most combinations of engines and tenders would have been found lurking on a quiet branch line.

 

Nigel

[N15class]

Looks like the latest 4-4-0 offering from Bachmann suffers from the same problem as their City - 3 bogie clerestory carriages and it's reached it's limit, and that's on the flat. No room in the body for weight either. Same problem with Hornby's Dean Single offering. The real things pulled 6-8 carriages without any problems. Airfix were onto something with their magnetic wheels and steel rails.

 

Nigel

Why not put some wieght in the tender, spring the front two axles and make the front of the tender bear oh the rear of the loco. This will add to traction. If I were still modelling 4mm scale I would also remove all the DCC bits and add lead to the loco.

[buffalo]

Airfix on the brain (or air, more likely, given my advancing years). Triang "Magnadhesion" it was. Reportedly runs better on steel rather than N/S rail (although both are magnetic, so another myth?). Which I keep meaning to try, as nickel does oxidize slowly and the oxide coating is non-conductive .The reason (I have read) why we all need to go over the track on a regular basis with the cleaning rubber. I suspect dust, dirt and oil are more likely...

 

Whilst nickel has ferromagnetic properties, I suggest you try applying a magnet to your nickel silver rail and compare the attraction to that of steel rail. There's a world of difference and in most cases you'll find no detectable attraction to the n/s rail.

 

As to track rubbers, they are one of the worst things you can use to 'clean' track. They are abrasive and put numerous tiny scratches into the surface which are ideal for picking up dust, dirt, grease, etc. All you need is a simple solvent like IPA and a soft cloth.

 

Nick

Edited February 18, 2014 by buffalo

[Brassey]

Whilst nickel has ferromagnetic properties, I suggest you try applying a magnet to your nickel silver rail and compare the attraction to that of steel rail. There's a world of difference and in most cases you'll find no detectable attraction to the n/s rail.

 

As to track rubbers, they are one of the worst things you can use to 'clean' track. They are abrasive and put numerous tiny scratches into the surface which are ideal for picking up dust, dirt, grease, etc. All you need is a simple solvent like IPA and a soft cloth.

 

Nick

 

Having read all the threads on here about using IPA to clean track, I went round all the Chemists including a large Boots and some Hardware stores last week and not one of them stocked any.  I eventually managed to buy some on Amazon.  Not tried it on my new track yet though.

 

Peter

[Prometheus]

This discussion has been dormant for over a year so I thought I'd post a very recent completion. I've one more 4-wheeler to finish before starting the 6-wheel Clerestory Tri-Compo. I concluded that this one was worth the considerable effort that went into the build: the mouldings were mis-shapen and out of true along several planes and it was almost impossible to get more than 3 wheels on the track at any one time. Patience however paid dividends and it is now surprisingly free-running.

 

 

 

Tony

[Prometheus]

Number two now finished:

 

 

The pair weigh in at just under half a kilo: a phenomenal weight for a pair of four-wheelers. Getting the wheels to sit square and run freely was a mother of a task, but essential if there was to be any prospect of meaningful movement. Even so, with the rake in which they run, there is only any real hope of revenue-earning service if traction tyres are employed up front. A white metal [GEM] 56xx will eventually come to the rescue however.

 

Next on the stocks is this little beauty: an eBay bargain, still in a mint box and with its wrapping paper. I'm afraid the centre wheel set will have to have drastically reduced flanges however........

 

 

Hugely primitive and quite trying, they are nevertheless real gems.

 

Tony

Edited July 4, 2015 by Prometheus

[Earlswood Nob]

Good morning all

 

I have long been a supporter of white metals kits and get pleasure from building them.

I am currently trying to convert a Kays O4/1 into a O4/6 rebuild from an O5, and have run into problems.

The Kays footplate is too wide. The widened footplate over the cylinders is approx 3mm overscale. 

I have built a cab to the dimensions of the Isinglass drawing and it's too narrow. 

I shall have to rebuild the cab with a new spectacle plate to match the oversize footplate. The roof will have to be widened and made higher if matching the original curvature.

 

Earlswood nob

[Prometheus]

Earlswood, the GEM 56xx has been dismantled and will eventually be fitted with a Bachmann 56xx chassis. A huge amount of cutting and filing has been required for each to obtain some sort of fit and securing the chassis to the body will be another headache I've to face. The body will be detailed also as it is quite plain.

 

The 4-wheelers above were relatively straightforward, afterall, they comprised only a roof, ends and sides. Without a floor they'd have been impossible however because of the distortions in the mouldings. The amount of careful manipulation required to get them to fit was extraordinary but they are all fairly square now.Their wheels, as supplied, were a bit of a joke though: the axles were too long to fit, even with the axle-box mouldings splayed right out. In the end, I fitted Hornby coach disks into plain bearings.

 

I assembled each using two-part epoxy: the curing time allowed for continuous readjustment and so resulted in an acceptable outcome. I must have used at least half a tube on each [but it's all invisible] !

 

Tony 

[Earlswood Nob]

Prometheus (what a great forum name)

 

People forget about GEM models. I do have a D21 4-4-0, which originally had the Triang/Hornby chassis and now has a Comet chassis.

I hope the 56xx model is powerful as those Kays coaches are heavy.

 

Comet (now Wizard) do a 56xx chassis. They are more expensive than RTR chassis, but are so much better.

However, I have made my two Bachmann J39 split chassis run well after cleaning, and an old Mainline J72 split chassis now runs beautifully after I managed to get it apart and clean it.

 

Wheels/axles are always a problem with Kays kits. I usually replace them with Gibson (or Markits) wheels. 

 

I admire you for using two-part epoxy, it would be too slow for me.

 

 

 

Earlswood nob

[melmerby]

Whilst nickel has ferromagnetic properties, I suggest you try applying a magnet to your nickel silver rail and compare the attraction to that of steel rail. There's a world of difference and in most cases you'll find no detectable attraction to the n/s rail.

 

As to track rubbers, they are one of the worst things you can use to 'clean' track. They are abrasive and put numerous tiny scratches into the surface which are ideal for picking up dust, dirt, grease, etc. All you need is a simple solvent like IPA and a soft cloth.

 

Nick

Or a CMX Clean Machine with something decent to pull/push it around your layout.

Much easier than doing it all by hand.

 

Keith

[bike2steam]

A K's exGW 2-8-2T fitted with a Mashima 1628 motor, will just about pull anything.

[Prometheus]

I nearly bought one the other day !  Decided against it as I have just too much on the go right now. Maybe in 6 months though. Would probably outpull Heljan's Garratt ?

 

Tony