What have you done with your Keyser kit

[hayfield]

I must put my hand up and say thatI have a very soft spot for N C Keyser (K's) kits, as said on another thread by someone else, these kits have come in for a lot of un-justified critcism, both on this and other sites.

 

Clearly they are not up to standards we expect from todays kits. But please remember that in their day (60's & 70's) they were at the forefront of model kits.

 

Un-like other companies products they were complete kits (except glue and paint), secondly they were sometimes half the price of other kits, once the wheels motor etc were bought. And not only of types of loco not available from the RTR market (remember Triang, Hornby Dublo and Trix) but far more highly detailed. Keyser brought affordability of a whitemetal kit to a wider selection of modellers

 

We have seen a super thread of a Beyer Garratt build in the not to distant past and I thought it was time to show off what we have done with ours

 

Here is a couple of my models

 

 

The left hand Terrier was made and hand painted by someone else, has the HMP2 motor which in this instance works fine and has the newer D type plastic wheels.

 

The other Terrier is a rebuild of a S/H model I got off Ebay. Has the earlier pre-quartered wheels and Mk 2 motor, I have added etched rear window grills and guard irons from brass. Waiting for coal in the bunker, driver and fireman to hide the motor and window glass. Again given it has an old 3 pole motor it runs quite well.

 

The wagon is the SR 5 plank open (number ficticious). I have removed the internal fixing lugs and fitted etched W irons. I will alter the couplings to some other less conspicuous type.

 

I would be interested in seeing other built models either built as designed or with upgraded bodies / chassis etc

Edited April 6, 2013 by hayfield

[Horsetan]

I have an 8750 pannier. It's still mostly in its vacuum wrap. The splashers need moving to the correct spacing.

[micknich2003]

Way back in ther mid '70's, I built many a 4mm engine. My standard components were K's "D" drivers and their final design of "Plastic" motor. The motor was given a rave review, look up the adverts in the contempory press.

 Changing the subject, does anyone know why "K's" closed down? Mick.

[Earlswood Nob]

Good morning all

I have built several K's kits in the past. J72, Y8, and some O4's, and I've just got hold of a B2. These days I build a new chassis, having fitted Romford wheels since the early days.

You're right in saying they filled a gap. I think they lost something when they started using those small motors. The old Kay's Mk1 was a strong motor (high current draw as well) and I still have an O4 with one and it runs well.

The O4 is convertible in many locos, simple conversions include O4/3 (tender altered and boiler fittings changed) O4/4( new boiler, cab, fittings, and tender altered), O5 (new boiler, fittings, and modified footplate), O4/7 (new boiler, fittings). The S1 also uses the same boiler, as do the B4 and C4. The B9 uses a shortened boiler.

The B2 can be converted into a B3 or B7, and possibly a B8.

They were useful kits.

Earlswood Nob

[Mrkirtley800]

I built many of the K's kits during the 60's and 70's, the first being a LNWR 0-6-2 coal tank.  It was assembled using Pafra glue, as recommeded by Mat Ascough, the owner of the model shop in Leeds. 

The Johnson single was built about 1971 - ish.  The large driving wheels as suppllied were of cast white metal and were pretty awful.  The wheels on this loco were taken from the Triang GWR 'Lord of the Isles' and turned down to fine standards. The tender drive is very good, it is quiet, powerful and very contollable.  The pic attached is of my single, built to EM gauge and painted by Coachman Larry.  It was all very tight to get EM wheels to fit as the engine is very narrow but it is still running after 40 odd years.

The K's motors - marks 1 and 2, were useful, especially the mark 2 which would fit all my scratch built Midland locos.  If you got a good one it was very good, but a bad one was terrible.

Derek

[Simon Moore]

Derek that is a lovely piece of work there. Everytime i catch a glimpse of your layout i am always totally drawn in by it & how well the modeling is. The fact that its also not a spring chicken is something else that gets me. The fact that the loco there is over 40 years old is great. 

Today i brought a Bachmann replacement loco after the one i bought was fault & thought to myself " How long will it last " Wonder if my Bachmann loco will still be running in 40 years time??

Simon

[Horsetan]

.....The K's motors - marks 1 and 2, were useful, especially the mark 2 which would fit all my scratch built Midland locos.  If you got a good one it was very good, but a bad one was terrible.

 

...to say nothing of the final K's motor, the notorious HP2M with its built-in plastic gear cradle. The motor shaft on some had no metal bearings at all - it spun entirely within plastic!

[the goathland]

We must have been lucky in Yorkshire as Michael at Wakefield model center would  'part exchange the K's motor and wheels for Romfords ' which made the task of building a K's kit much easier.    One of my most successful was the Kirtley 0-6-0 with outside frames and American pickups..........ran like a dream........looked the part too !

[hayfield]

Super model of the Johnson, I have never tried using a tender drive, now come on lads dont be shy lets have some photos not only of your locos but wagons and coaches

 

I have a few of the bodyline kits which take the Hornby Dublo R1 chassis,  Now do I just swap the wheels for Romfords and try a Mainly Trains coupling rod set or use one of the Wills etched FC102 chassis I have. A Southeastern Finecast one would be better as it has brake gear but I dont have any

[Jol Wilkinson]

I believe that Keysers stopped manufacturing kits around 1990. N & K C Keyser Ltd are still listed as PLastic Product manufacturers in Banbury, Oxon.

 

I think that they didn't develop new products to compete sufficiently with the other kit manufacturers, especially when etched kits had become more popular. There may also have been other factors, particularly if model railway kits were only a small part of their business activity.

[Rob Pulham]

The only K's kit I ever had/built was this one.

 

It made up into a nice representation and was one of my first attempts at soldering whitemetal. Which seemed much easier to do than to think about at the time.

 

 

[micknich2003]

I believe that Keysers stopped manufacturing kits around 1990. N & K C Keyser Ltd are still listed as PLastic Product manufacturers in Banbury, Oxon.

 

I think that they didn't develop new products to compete sufficiently with the other kit manufacturers, especially when etched kits had become more popular. There may also have been other factors, particularly if model railway kits were only a small part of their business activity.

 

 That's interesting, "K's" models and kits started as a sideline to "Pop Keyser's" sweet and tobaco shop in the '50's. The firm moved to Banbury, I believe early/mid '70's, obviously with the passing years the plastic side of the business took over. From what I have read, the tooling for the railway kits went to "Autocom" who kept up production for some years. Does the tooling still exist? Mick.

[Oldddudders]

Golly. I don't expect to have anything to offer threads like this, but, er.....

 

 

Elliott Sterling Miller was my Father-in-law. His father was the pit-clerk at Pegswood between the wars.

 

I must have made and decorated this in about 1976. No handbrake - but it does have the basic sprung 3-links, even if the links are largely missing!

[Graham_Muz]

My K's K class albeit with a non Ks motor is below

 

 

Co-coincidently I posted on my blog here about this class and kit only this week.

[DaveF]

Many of the K's kits were available until quite recently, they were merged with the Nu Cast range.  Until very recently they were advertised in Railway Modeller on a regular basis.  I think the final firm was called "West Coast Kit Centre", I know Sherwood Models also stocked them.

 

I think the manufacturer has now retired.

 

David

Edited April 7, 2013 by DaveF

[Jol Wilkinson]

 That's interesting, "K's" models and kits started as a sideline to "Pop Keyser's" sweet and tobaco shop in the '50's. The firm moved to Banbury, I believe early/mid '70's, obviously with the passing years the plastic side of the business took over. From what I have read, the tooling for the railway kits went to "Autocom" who kept up production for some years. Does the tooling still exist? Mick.

Mick,

 

I have found this regarding Autocom and Nucast  http://www.crphillips-models.co.uk/newsflash.html

 

I can't say I entirely agree with the sentiments, although as a professional builder of 00 kits the loss of a wide range of whitemetal kits has probably hit his business more than those who build etched as well as w/m kits . I feel Autocom was another company that got left behind, particularly in terms of product/brand awareness. AFAIK they were only latterley available through Sherwood Models.

 

Jol

[RosiesBoss]

K’s Kits on Carmarthen Junction

 

Like many other “baby boomers”, I was dissatisfied with limited range of RTR models available in the 1960s and 1970s. I began to assemble whatever relevant kits I could afford to buy (and found that this aspect of the hobby was very satisfying). My first whitemetal loco kit was a Wills 1854 class 0-6-0PT, completed in 1967. It’s still going strong, as is its original X04 motor. My next one was a K’s “Terrier”, which one of my workmates sold me in 1968. I completed it as GWR 5 “Portishead”. This is also still working well. In 1975, I made an 8-week visit to the UK and purchased a large number of kits, including several K’s locos and autocoach. I assembled these over the next few years. From time to time, I have supplemented these with other K’s models – some bought as kits, others fully assembled, requiring some restoration.

 

1. Locomotives

 

0-4-2T 4833.

Seen here with an Airfix autocoach, this model has plastic–centred wheels on D axles. I modifed the trailing wheel assembly with a simple spring suspension, to ensure that the front driving wheels continue to maintain contact with the rails. It still uses its original K’s Mk.2 motor.

 

0-6-0T  5 “Portishead”.

This has Romford wheels on solid (not squared) axles. It still uses its original K’s Mk.2 motor.

 

0-6-0PT 4658.

Bought as a body kit only, I fitted it with a spare Bachmann chassis.

 

2-6-0 2620 (Aberdare” class).

This has plastic–centred wheels on D axles. From “day 1”, the pony truck derailed continuously. I eventually discovered that the axle was not aligned square to the rails. Once this was corrected, the loco ran beautifully. It still uses its original K’s Mk.2 motor.

 

2-6-0 6326.

This came as a “basket case” via eBay. It had (loose) plastic–centred wheels on D axles which I replaced with old (new, old stock) Romfords on solid (not squared) axles.

 

2-8-0 3026 (“ROD” class).

This was supplied with plastic–centred wheels on D axles which quickly worked loose under load. These were replaced by Romfords. It still uses its original K’s Mk.2 motor.

 

2-8-0 3040 (“ROD” class)

This was a “new, old stock” purchase via a Hornby Collectors’ Club auction. It came with Romford wheels on solid (not squared) axles. During construction, I replaced the K’s motor and gears with a new Hornby mini-open-frame motor and proprietry nylon gears, so I could fit a commercial (spare part) backhead in the cab.

 

2-8-0 2818.

Assembled in 1977, this loco still has its original plastic–centred wheels on D axles. It still uses its original K’s Mk.2 motor.

 

4-4-0 3283 “Comet”.

This model was another “dog” from new. Its original plastic–centred wheels on D axles have been replaced by Romfords. The integral motor-gearbox was replaced with small Hornby motor in the K’s gearbox frame. This was later replaced by a small Mashima motor in a brass gearbox frame, but still using the K's gears.

 

2. Coaching stock

 

Dean PBVs.

I have two of these, which look and run well.  

 

6-wheeled low Siphon.

I think I bought this whitemetal kit  in Sydney’s Hobbyco hobby store around 1965. It took quite a while to tune the chassis to run well, but it still earns its keep in a string of GWR “brown vehicles”.

 

Siphon F.

This plastic kit looked good from completion, but was let down by flimsy bogies. Re-equipped with whitemetal ones, it now runs well.

 

Autocoach.

This whitemetal model does not bear comparison with the Airfix/Hornby plastic one and awaits rebuilding and detailing.

 

6-wheeled clerestory family saloon.

This old whitemetal kit was bought at a model show’s “bring and buy” stall in 2000. It has been finished as illustrated on page 79 of C.C.Green “Cambrian Railways Album – 2” (Ian Allan, 1981).

 

B-set.

These coaches were acquired second-hand and are still as originally finished.

 

3. Freight Stock

 

Grano & NE roofed open.

These two whitemetal models were bought as kits at “bring and buy” stalls. They are quite heavy, but still look and run well.

 

GW 4-plank open.

39527 is a K’s whitemetal kit. 75708 is a plastic Coopercraft kit. The K’s model still looks good.

 

Banana vans.

I still have two unmade whitemetal kits of these vans, awaiting a “rainy day”.

 

4. Reflections

 

Many of the whitemetal models have become available as RTR ones – something undreamed of when I built most of them. Nevetheless, the experience of building them has taught me so many skills that have subsequently used in kitbashing and scratchbuilding to create models that were otherwise unavailable or unaffordable.

 

I still enjoy using all of the old models described above. I built them to last!

Edited April 8, 2013 by RosiesBoss

[hayfield]

Golly. I don't expect to have anything to offer threads like this, but, er.....

 

LM1_0006b.jpg

 

Elliott Sterling Miller was my Father-in-law. His father was the pit-clerk at Pegswood between the wars.

 

I must have made and decorated this in about 1976. No handbrake - but it does have the basic sprung 3-links, even if the links are largely missing!

 

 

Ian

 

Is that the 7 plank PO wagon and can I see the GE sand wagon in the background

 

 

My K's K class albeit with a non Ks motor is below

 

K 2346_2.jpg

 

Co-coincidently I posted on my blog here about this class and kit only this week.

 

Graham

 

Just goes to prove that they can be made into nice models

 

K’s Kits on Carmarthen Junction

 

Like many other “baby boomers”, I was dissatisfied with limited range of RTR models available in the 1960s and 1970s. I began to assemble whatever relevant kits I could afford to buy (and found that this aspect of the hobby was very satisfying). My first whitemetal loco kit was a Wills 1854 class 0-6-0PT, completed in 1967. It’s still going strong, as is its original X04 motor. My next one was a K’s “Terrier”, which one of my workmates sold me in 1968. I completed it as GWR 5 “Portishead”. This is also still working well. In 1975, I made an 8-week visit to the UK and purchased a large number of kits, including several K’s locos and autocoach. I assembled these over the next few years. From time to time, I have supplemented these with other K’s models – some bought as kits, others fully assembled, requiring some restoration.

 

1. Locomotives

 

0-4-2T 4833.

Seen here with an Airfix autocoach, this model has plastic–centred wheels on D axles. I modifed the trailing wheel assembly with a simple spring suspension, to ensure that the front driving wheels continue to maintain contact with the rails. It still uses its original K’s Mk.2 motor.

4833 & Airfix autocoach, Carmarthen Junction Mk 2, 1997.JPG

on Carmarthen Junction, 7 Apr 2013.JPG

 

 

4. Reflections

 

Many of the whitemetal models have become available as RTR ones – something undreamed of when I built most of them. Nevetheless, the experience of building them has taught me so many skills that have subsequently used in kitbashing and scratchbuilding to create models that were otherwise unavailable or unaffordable.

 

I still enjoy using all of the old models described above. I built them to last!

 

 

Rosies boss

 

What a lovely collection, and all working. Dare not own up to how many I have to build/rebuild. What are the small motors you are using, any chance of a photo or two please

 

 

Thanks for showing us your photos

[Oldddudders]

Ian

 

Is that the 7 plank PO wagon and can I see the GE sand wagon in the background

Yes, 7-plank PO it is, I think. The vehicle on the left is modern Cambrian, the unpainted open just visible between the two is Nu-Cast LBSCR from about 30 years ago. The signalbox is an HO US kit, not intended for use with these vehicles - he said quickly!

[Ravenser]

Mick,

 

I have found this regarding Autocom and Nucast  http://www.crphillips-models.co.uk/newsflash.html

 

I can't say I entirely agree with the sentiments, although as a professional builder of 00 kits the loss of a wide range of whitemetal kits has probably hit his business more than those who build etched as well as w/m kits . I feel Autocom was another company that got left behind, particularly in terms of product/brand awareness. AFAIK they were only latterley available through Sherwood Models.

 

Jol

 I can't agree with his comment:

 

 

This is an absolute catastrophe for the British model railway scene. This loss of such a major range of kits, has left a huge void that will probably never be filled again.

 

A quick check thorough Forsythe's History of Loco Kits shows that 23 of the Ks range (out of 68) remain unduplicated and out of production - the "Milestones" went elsewhere, and since I'm not that well up on what's availble in etched brass there may be quite a few of those 23 that have been done in etched brass . For NuCast the score seems to be 37 unduplicated out of 78 , though I suspect that Dave Alexander  and others have in fact covered most of the NER subjects with better kits. A reasonable estimate would be that out of about 140 prototypes modelled, less than 40 are currently without an alternative model

 

On the other hand this could be as much an opportunity as a setback. The demise of Lima removed a lot of modern image models from the market , and created some lucrative opportunities for Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan to launch much better models. The same might be the case here -  other kit manufacturers may no longer feel inhibited by the theoretical availablity of an old kit

 

I did on a couple of occasions toy with the idea of acquiring a NuCast Sentinel railcar , but a quick look at the price lists and the discovery that the project would cost well over £150 soon killed the impulse  

 

 

As LNWRModeller says , Autocom never in recent years seemed to project themselves - in fact it was quite difficult to find out if they were still in existance, and some years ago I had to do some digging to find out where I could obtain the Y1/Y3 kit .In fact when thinking about Autocom I can't help hearing a line from the old song playing in my head "Fade away and gradually die... Fade away and gradually die.."

 

It's sobering to think that in 1990 they and SE Finecast were very much neck and neck. SE Finecast did new stuff and kept promoting themselves - they were at All Pally 2 weeks ago and I bought some Flushglaze off them. Autocom didn't

[melmerby]

What was the K's motor that featured twin magnets with holes where the drive shafts passed through?

I assume that they were made for them by someone else as I have several including a slot-car version which consumed even more current but was extremely fast!

 

I only ever had one K's loco kit - that was an abysmal 70s series 14XX tank. The chassis sides were different lengths and virtually every whitemetal part was distorted, along with an autocoach similarly afflicted, even the sole bar was incorrectly moulded on one side.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

Keith

 

I thought they were the Mk2, but  I believe they did at least 2 sizes.

 

Here is my 3F bodyline kit

 

 

Waiting for transfers, coal and window glass. Has etched rear window grills (Mainly Trains) and front lamp irons. Has a driner/fireman on the other side, one of those whitemetal top half only figures (why dont they still do them for tank locos or do all tank locos have cabs clear of motors)

 

Should realy put a set of decent wheels and coupling roads on.

[micknich2003]

There were two double ended motors, the Mk1 and Mk2, one was bigger, and both five pole. From what I recall if you got a "Good Un" you were OK, the fixing was truely abismal, a 6BA thread in one or both pole pieces, but only enough meat to hold about two threads. Nevertheless and like the kits, they could be made to run, and well, a mate in the mid 60's had a stud of K's engines and they all looked and performed to perfection. Mick.

[Sidecar Racer]

A couple of my K's builds ,

 

Aberdare , retrieved from Ebay as a ' needs attention ' buy . Has a new home made brass strip frame chassis , Mashima style

motor and Markits gearbox , Romford wheels , Markit outside frame cranks .

 

 

Similar to the Aberdare , this Bulldog has the same as the above apart from the gearbox being High level .

 

 

 This 42xx now has a set of Cotswold chassis frames , Mashima motor , High level gearbox , Romford wheels

and Markit machined crossheads in a  Comet cylinder set ,

 

 

 

 

 

 Basically all that exists from  the original K's parts is the body structure on all of these , there is a 57xx

awaiting in the works too .

 

[Mrkirtley800]

Thank you for your nice comments Simon.  I have posted one or two pics of my layout on RM Web to illustrate what I am trying to say, but normally I am a bit loth to push it.  Since most folks contributing to the web seem to model diesel or late BR steam I fear that a layout set in 1908 may not be of much interest, especially one covered in dust as mine is.  With my troublesome knees I can't keep the thing clean.

However I do have other K's kit built stock and here are some more piccies.

The Kirtley goods  kit was bought for me by my wife as a birthday present in 1965.  It still uses the original mainframes (chassis) but with Gibson wheels, a Mashima motor and Branchlines 80/1 gearbox.  If I was building it now, I would fit it with a Johson smokebox door and chimney with continuous handrail.

The Johnson goods (on the double header) was a kit given to a friend.  He took the wheels and gave me the body kit, so everything under the footplate is built from scratch. The first wagon in the train, a three plank open, is also a K's.

The 0-6-0T I bought as a bodyline kit in about 1959 and built it as it was intended to fit a Hornby chassis.  I rebuilt it during the 1980's with gearbox and big Mashima motor and sratch built chassis and use it extensively on shunting duties.

Most of my engines are getting on in years, the oldest is a scratch built Midland 3P with bogie tender, now 54 years old, and it still runs pulling a heavy train of corridor clerestory stock.