DMU conversions for Sheffield Exchange

[47164]

Hi Clive, out of curiosity which coach will you locate the power unit ? I imagine an old Hornby or ringfield unit will sit quite high, and ideally the brake car with the pantograph would be best , but then black beetle units are like gold dust.

Hornby 4vep power units look good, if not a fraction short.

[Rich Papper]

Hi Clive. Just found this and spent an enjoyable hour reading through. Could probably read it quicker if you didn't have such excellent ideas that leave me flicking back and forth to eBay between posts! Looking forward to more.

 

Rich

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive, out of curiosity which coach will you locate the power unit ? I imagine an old Hornby or ringfield unit will sit quite high, and ideally the brake car with the pantograph would be best , but then black beetle units are like gold dust.

Hornby 4vep power units look good, if not a fraction short.

Hi 146

 

The ringfield is just at the cant rail level so is clear of the lower roof for the panotgraph. Having used the Hornby ringfield in many of my scratchbuilt diesels I knew it would be OK before even considering the class 29 bogie.

 

Edit, I like to put the power in one of the centre coaches on all my 4 car units. Pushing more than two coaches can lead to derailments, saying that my Derby 4 car 108 has its motor is one of the driving cars and it doesn't derail when pushing three coaches. On the 309s in the motor brake seconds. My experience of Black Beetles on a friend's layout with quite a few 4 car EMUs, any unlevel track and they struggled.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[FPH 603]

Hi 146

 

The ringfield is just at the cant rail level so is clear of the lower roof for the panotgraph. Having used the Hornby ringfield in many of my scratchbuilt diesels I knew it would be OK before even considering the class 29 bogie.

 

Edit, I like to put the power in one of the centre coaches on all my 4 car units. Pushing more than two coaches can lead to derailments, saying that my Derby 4 car 108 has its motor is one of the driving cars and it doesn't derail when pushing three coaches. On the 309s in the motor brake seconds. My experience of Black Beetles on a friend's layout with quite a few 4 car EMUs, any unlevel track and they struggled.

That's interesting to know... Just a couple of questions:

 

1. Does this SIGNIFICANTLY affect the performance of Black Beetle installed units?

 

2. If so, what do you recommend as an alternative motor bogie?

 

I am planning on using Black Beetles on my scratchbuilt DMU's, but if they aren't as good as they seem, then I need to make decisions NOW before I come around to motorising my currently non-existent DMU's.

[Clive Mortimore]

That's interesting to know... Just a couple of questions:

 

1. Does this SIGNIFICANTLY affect the performance of Black Beetle installed units?

 

2. If so, what do you recommend as an alternative motor bogie?

 

I am planning on using Black Beetles on my scratchbuilt DMU's, but if they aren't as good as they seem, then I need to make decisions NOW before I come around to motorising my currently non-existent DMU's.

 

On my friends layout the black beetles were not the best performers. Looking at your proposed layout I am sure they would be fine if they don't have too many coaches to pull /push around. 

 

Alternative bogies range from Lima ringfield to the Replica powered underframe, most have enough guts to shift a four car DMU.

[richard i]

On my friends layout the black beetles were not the best performers. Looking at your proposed layout I am sure they would be fine if they don't have too many coaches to pull /push around. 

 

Alternative bogies range from Lima ringfield to the Replica powered underframe, most have enough guts to shift a four car DMU.

And they can be crashed at a much higher speed too, by a friend.

[Clive Mortimore]

And they can be crashed at a much higher speed too, by a friend.

I am not saying anything about what happened on Tony's layout. But at Warley he tried to blame the wheels on the unit, until I reminded him it was he who suggested we raced the trains. We soon concluded as you were driving (and not present to defend yourself) it was your fault.

[dhjgreen]

Are black beetles still available, I thought the motors were no longer available. DC Kits still list them (they tend to list things that are no longer available) but Motorbogies have only one item in stock.

[Baby Deltic]

You could always try adding a bit of Bullfrog Snot on the Black Beetle wheels to improve adhesion.

[FPH 603]

Are black beetles still available, I thought the motors were no longer available. DC Kits still list them (they tend to list things that are no longer available) but Motorbogies have only one item in stock.

Yes, from what I know there are still avalible. You could look at motorbogies.com or http://steameramodels.com/default.htm

 

I WAS going to use them although I may reconsider. Don't be drawn away from it though because from what I have read they are pretty good.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have almost finished the drawing of the corridor side of a 309 DMBS's underframe.

 

 

[Signaller69]

I have almost finished the drawing of the corridor side of a 309 DMBS's underframe.

 

pic for Andi.png

Nice work Clive, I could do with finding something similar for the Class 303 I'm hoping to do at some point. It is the major frustration that official "General Arrangement" drawings don't feature the underfloor equipment on most units. Is there scope for adding your drawings to the Barrowmore pages? I note some of the diagram books on there come from your good self.

Regards,

Martyn.

[Clive Mortimore]

I had a great day demonstrating my modelling at the Doncaster Festival of Model Railways. Someone has to teach the masses that EMUs can be modelled. I learned I don't know it all, but did anyone else know that the LMR class 304s had both batteries on the left side and the charger on the right, where all the ER classes 302, 305, 308 and 309/1 had a battery each side and the charger on the left in front of the battery on the Driving Trailer Seconds. The 309/2 and 309/3 had the same arrangement on the Driving Trailer Composite.

[MJI]

I had a great day demonstrating my modelling at the Doncaster Festival of Model Railways. Someone has to teach the masses that EMUs can be modelled. I learned I don't know it all, but did anyone else know that the LMR class 304s had both batteries on the left side and the charger on the right, where all the ER classes 302, 305, 308 and 309/1 had a battery each side and the charger on the left in front of the battery on the Driving Trailer Seconds. The 309/2 and 309/3 had the same arrangement on the Driving Trailer Composite.

 

 

I was so tempted to say

 

"You only just found that out."

 

Oh have you noticed how horrible Lima roofs are to sand and paint?

 

Have to use filler primer to deal with the seams on the DMU roofs.

[John Tomlinson]

I had a great day demonstrating my modelling at the Doncaster Festival of Model Railways. Someone has to teach the masses that EMUs can be modelled. I learned I don't know it all, but did anyone else know that the LMR class 304s had both batteries on the left side and the charger on the right, where all the ER classes 302, 305, 308 and 309/1 had a battery each side and the charger on the left in front of the battery on the Driving Trailer Seconds. The 309/2 and 309/3 had the same arrangement on the Driving Trailer Composite.

 

Oh B....r! I've only just read this. I usually go to Doncaster, an hour and a bit up the A1, but this year didn't bother and stayed at home to do some modelling. If I'd realised you were showing your models I'd have gone!

 

John.

[Clive Mortimore]

I was so tempted to say

 

"You only just found that out."

 

Oh have you noticed how horrible Lima roofs are to sand and paint?

 

Have to use filler primer to deal with the seams on the DMU roofs.

Hi Martin

 

All the Mk1 25 Kv units have two boxes on the left and one on the right, so I thought I will just use the Colin Craig drawings from Update. It wasn't until I looked closely at the photos I was working from on Saturday that I saw they were different.....had they been steam locos with a different type of top feed or class 47s with a flush front at the number one end there would have been volumes of photos and explanations. The poor old EMU remains at the back of the que regarding useful modelling information.

 

Can't say I have noticed any problems with Lima roofs.

[Clive Mortimore]

Oh B....r! I've only just read this. I usually go to Doncaster, an hour and a bit up the A1, but this year didn't bother and stayed at home to do some modelling. If I'd realised you were showing your models I'd have gone!

 

John.

Hi John

 

I didn't know I was going to be there on Saturday until late on Friday afternoon. I was booked to do the DEMU stand on Sunday but at the last moment we had a swap about. It would have been great to meet and chat.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Martin

 

All the Mk1 25 Kv units have two boxes on the left and one on the right, so I thought I will just use the Colin Craig drawings from Update. It wasn't until I looked closely at the photos I was working from on Saturday that I saw they were different.....had they been steam locos with a different type of top feed or class 47s with a flush front at the number one end there would have been volumes of photos and explanations. The poor old EMU remains at the back of the que regarding useful modelling information.

 

Can't say I have noticed any problems with Lima roofs.

And more to the point, the 304s have a different design of battery box than the ER sets.

[47164]

Hi Clive..knowing your joy with all things class 309.. I thought I would share with you my slightly less ambitious model so far, all being down to keeping costs down, it needs some additional boxes on the power/ driving unit and front screens need to be slightly smaller and black lined.

The base coaches are replica (Manufactured by Bachmann some years back I guess) I found a set of 4 at a toy fair by pure luck as I needed commonwealth bogies and was hoping to avoid a Hornby/replica or Bachmann combo.

The cabs came off flea bay nicely done in resin..for some odd reason the chap making them sold them singly rather than in pairs, but they were considerably cheaper than the classy product from Pete Harvey .

The power unit is a tenshido spud ,my mate mr dremel helped in trimming off the axle ends so that I could marry it up to a replica bogie frame, and probably the more expensive part of the model was the marklin pantograph.

The cab glazing is my old favourite 1.5mm perspect sheet.

[MJI]

Hi Martin

 

All the Mk1 25 Kv units have two boxes on the left and one on the right, so I thought I will just use the Colin Craig drawings from Update. It wasn't until I looked closely at the photos I was working from on Saturday that I saw they were different.....had they been steam locos with a different type of top feed or class 47s with a flush front at the number one end there would have been volumes of photos and explanations. The poor old EMU remains at the back of the que regarding useful modelling information.

 

Can't say I have noticed any problems with Lima roofs.

 

 

All fun, but in general MUs are ignored, I do like to see models of them.

 

My current ones are a Tysely 116 and a WR 119

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive..knowing your joy with all things class 309.. I thought I would share with you my slightly less ambitious model so far, all being down to keeping costs down, it needs some additional boxes on the power/ driving unit and front screens need to be slightly smaller and black lined.

The base coaches are replica (Manufactured by Bachmann some years back I guess) I found a set of 4 at a toy fair by pure luck as I needed commonwealth bogies and was hoping to avoid a Hornby/replica or Bachmann combo.

The cabs came off flea bay nicely done in resin..for some odd reason the chap making them sold them singly rather than in pairs, but they were considerably cheaper than the classy product from Pete Harvey .

The power unit is a tenshido spud ,my mate mr dremel helped in trimming off the axle ends so that I could marry it up to a replica bogie frame, and probably the more expensive part of the model was the marklin pantograph.

The cab glazing is my old favourite 1.5mm perspect sheet.IMG_3564.JPGIMG_3565.JPG

 

All fun, but in general MUs are ignored, I do like to see models of them.

 

My current ones are a Tysely 116 and a WR 119

Hi 47146 and Martin

 

I just wish there were more unit modellers. The more of us looking at them the more information we have to share with each other.

[Signaller69]

Hi 47146 and Martin

 

I just wish there were more unit modellers. The more of us looking at them the more information we have to share with each other.

Agreed Clive, though I have received info from yourself and others on the forum which has helped massively with my class 126 DMU as well as coach builds, as you say the more people doing similar projects, the better!

[timbowilts]

Hi 47146 and Martin

 

I just wish there were more unit modellers. The more of us looking at them the more information we have to share with each other.

Clive , i agtee wholeheartedly with your senttents. Unfortunately my requirements are possibly too simple for a thread like this, one or two Class 116’s in as-delivered condition for a mid-50’s Cynon Valley themed layout

 

Tim T

[dhjgreen]

Hi 47146 and Martin

 

I just wish there were more unit modellers. The more of us looking at them the more information we have to share with each other.

Unit modeller here.

 

Wolverton 504, L&Y Electric both at Bury Bolton Street (both WIP and do not look at the undergubbins)  504 from 2EPB and DC Kits cabs, L&Y from 3D print from Rue d'etropal on here

[MJI]

Clive , i agtee wholeheartedly with your senttents. Unfortunately my requirements are possibly too simple for a thread like this, one or two Class 116’s in as-delivered condition for a mid-50’s Cynon Valley themed layout

 

Tim T

 

Plenty of work there

 

1 Lima power car

1 Lima unmotored power car with conversion kit OR 2 Lima unmotored power cars

2 Lima centre cars

 

Plastic card to make new destination box and reshape roof.

 

Plate over gangway holes

 

Make the DMS

 

Make the TS

 

Or wait for Bachmann if they ever get round to it.