Tallpaul69

Hi Grahame If the layout is for your benefit and will not be exhibited, then the only person that needs to be happy with it is YOU!! I, for instance, am more concerned with being able to operate a reasonable representation of the trains that operated around Maidenhead in 1960/2 than I am with the scenic side being a slavish copy of the original. So in my layout "Lower Thames Yard", in a 12x8 room I only have room for the Relief Lines and High Wycombe branch- the Mains have gone! But I am more interested in the Goods, Parcels and local passenger trains than the expresses, so no problem for me. The buildings of the station are used as scenic divides and there are no visible platforms. Other buildings in the area a reduced in size, moved, or omitted. So the goods shed has moved from the yard to adjacent and in front of the Branch platform overall roof. But what is important for me is that it can still be operated in a similar manner to the original . Currently, for instance, I am trying to finalise the position of the signal box. This in reality moved in 1963 from the station end of the yard to between the branch platform and up relief platform lines. My problem is lack of space between the two lines so the signal box may have to stay where it was at the near end of the yard, despite my having bought forward the change from semaphores to colour lights, which was the reason for the box moving (and its design changing!) from 1963 to 1962. Only I will know about this, so I am not worrying about it. So really, I am saying, don't let your compromises spoil your enjoyment of the layout, provided it is built and operated in reasonable accordance with UK railway and building construction and operation norms. Good luck, Best regards Paul

Hi All, I thought that having educated (bored!) you on Parcels and Class 121 operations at Lower Thames Yard, it was the turn of something more exciting(!) So today is the turn of the Express Passenger trains. Now there are not too many of these because the model will be of the Relief Lines and Branch, but I need a few expresses to let me run those that I particularly like and also to provide some variety. So there will be four named expresses and four unnamed rakes, which is all I can accommodate. All the rakes will be of 5 coaches, mainly MK1s but with the occasional GWR built coach in the maroon rakes for variety. The named expresses will run from the lower fiddle yard via the scenic area to the main fiddle yard and return. The down run of one express will be timed to pass the up run of another in the scenic area. So the Down Cornish Riviera will start from the main fiddle yard and pass the Up Cathedrals Express in the scenic area. The Down Cornish Riviera ends up in the siding in the Lower fiddle yard that the Up Cathedrals Express vacated earlier, and the Up Cathedrals Express ends up in the siding that the Down Cornish Riviera vacated earlier. The unnamed rakes, one chocolate and cream and one maroon in each direction will circulate from the main fiddle yard via the scenic area back to the main fiddle yard. A refinement I will get to when I have more experience of running the layout will be that the up and down unnamed rakes will swap over to increase the variety, and may venture to the lower fiddle yard!. One of the tricky aspects is to compose the 5 coach unnamed rakes so that they are not too toy like, but typical of the line's expresses, whilst not peculiar to a particular train, as in 1960/2 there were still a lot of individuality to the rakes of each train. Any suggestions on this would be appreciated! Locos will be a mix of steam and Hydraulic Diesels, probably too many steamers for accuracy in the period, but again with skill at running the layout I will start to change locos on the unnamed rakes between their runs. The named rakes will always get a loco change at each end of their runs, but this will need care, as steamers reaching the buffers in the lower fiddle yard will need to be found a path between the other trains up and down the incline to get to and from the turntable which is beside one end of the main fiddle yard. In the early days of running the layout the unnamed rakes will get multiple runs round the layout one after the other , although unrealistic, to create windows for shunting and dealing with the branch trains! Hoe the above makes sense? Keep smiling Best regards Paul

Nick, What I have from Brian is "British Railways (Western Operating Area) Marshaling instructions for Principal Local Freight Trains -London District" for 1956. it is subtitled :- Formations of Feeding and certain connecting services to the inter district freight trains shewn in Marshalling Instructions Sections A,B,C, and D. So your 1951 item is another piece in the puzzle! I would appreciate a copy or if you have it electronically a file of it. So may I PM you, and we can sort out the mechanics of this? Many thanks Paul

Do pay attention and keep up! I advised I was aware of this resource in a post some 17 hours ago! Never mind, I know your intentions were good. Regards Paul

Now who is showing their age?? But don't give the BBC ideas, they are looking for ways to fill the void left by all sport being cancelled! Still we are probably safe as all the producers and decision makers will unfortunately be far too young to know what you are talking about, and will inflict on everyone more awful channel 3 rubbish and then use that as an excuse to bring back channel 3 and cancel channel 4!! Happy days? Paul

Thanks Mike, Yes I agree, I have managed to get a copy of one thanks to Brian Mc Dermott, which helps with some of the trains , but there is still more info to track down! Regards Paul

Not an Oxford Pilchard?

Many Thanks, I am aware of this resource, but unfortunately the detail I am looking for is not given in the WTTs What I really need is the Fright Train Marshalling Books. Cheers Paul

This Holly sounds a tough cookie if she can deck a Hall, never mind multiple Halls?!! Of course it could be that she was from the Wrenns, or Binns Road but then she would be decking Castles!! Just a thought. Cheers Paul

At least the branch wasn't blocked by a multi truck derailment!! Just be glad he shows some sensible interest, and seems to be able to turn the knobs in the right direction. Cheers Paul

You mean "Halls well that ends well"?- lets hope it does!

I knew there would be a "but" in it somewhere!!

Good idea Keith, the only trouble is a lot of the Newspapers were travelling in the opposite direction to the Fish! Mind you if the fish or the newspapers vans were on the back of a Passenger train which included a Restaurant car, and the two trains collided, then your wish would have come true!! Cheers Paul

Probably because several of the "Fish Trains" were actually "Fish and Parcels Trains" according to the WTTs!!

Good Afternoon All, Hope everybody is ready for the next 4 months-(ish) of staying at home? Little moving currently on the modelling front (I know, nothing new there!). No idea when the guys will be able to work on, baseboards, tracklaying and wiring which was planned to start c2nd April. But hopefully today sees the end of our (my) getting ready phase! This includes home food deliveries set up for the next two weeks, work that needs doing on the paths and fences outside organized (they will have to phone me if they hit a snag-I'm not going outside while they are here!), old conservatory furniture taken away by Charity and new furniture set out, and various internet orders, ordered. A bright ray is that, as much as we love the grandchildren, we have a good excuse not to turn out for grandparent duties, especially as my son is now working from home. So tomorrow I can do some planning of modelling tasks:- Not worried if run out of any parts glues etc. just follow my normal practice and put the offending item with its parts etc. in a clearly labelled box and move on to the next item in the "to do" pile! It may well be such items put aside will wait for a long time even by my standards to get moved on. Also, this week, next week sometime...………, might actually get to taking some pics and putting them up for you all to critique (laugh at!) Meanwhile , keep safe, keep smiling, keep modelling, and above all, don't let the B.....rs get you down!! Cheers Paul

So is Russell more reliable than Larkins? Who knows! Each to their own. If we are modelling late 50s/ very early 60s I think it reasonable to use mainly Late LNER and BR vans with one or two Bloaters particularly as the term is to be found in the Carriage Working Books for 1961! But this is just for variety, and to distinguish a fish van loading in Cornwall from one loading in Hull. Best regards Paul

Evening All, My basis for the comment was two pictures in David Larkin's "BR General Parcels Rolling Stock" published by Bradford Barton in 1978. The upper picture on page 16 show a short type GWR Fish van at Swindon in the early 60s after withdrawal. The caption talks about the fact that the GWR only had two types of Fish van designed in 1919 between Grouping and Nationalisation which replaced earlier wagons. The Lower picture on the same page shows a long type GWR Bloater . The picture is at Theale in 1969 when in Engineers service, but the caption states "The GWR fish traffic came from ports in West Wales and the West Country and both types of van were the mainstay of this traffic until the late 1960s , when they were replaced by the BR "insulfish" vans. Incidentally there is a picture on page 15 of the "INSIXFISH" van! Hope this helps? Cheers Paul

As a type 2 whose wife is a Type 1, I understand your and Peter's situations. My wife has had a Libre for six months now and just got CCG funding approval for another 18 months So on the Omnipod, who is funding that, the NHS or yourself? Peter's situation makes us remember that we really shouldn't moan about the restrictions to cope with Coronavirus. Better a restricted life than the alternative...… Cheers Paul (Tallpaul 69) Trying through "Lower Thames Yard" to achieve a long held ambition to play trains with the WR Main Line.

If I was of a gloomy disposition, I would ask if that is the May 2021 session?? I can't imagine what all the folks of a certain age who don't have a hobby will do if we have to stick to this for the quoted 12-14 weeks! Never mind, all those modelling jobs we promise ourselves will get done when we have a minute will stand a chance in the following 14x7x12 x 60 =70,560 minutes (I am allowing 4 hrs a day for other activities and 8 hrs a day for sleep!). But as the Government have probably underestimated the length of time (as they do with most projects), it could be up to 4 times as long?? Never mind, Keep smiling! Paul

Look, I don't want coal in my milk, and we all know the old one about painting the coal, don't we? -But that was Black not Milky White!!! Ok- just making the point-Sorry Cheers Paul

Anyone got a spare garden shed?- just thinking out of the box!!

Hi Clive, I know I shouldn't drag you back to DMUs when you have finally got to running real trains (!!), but I couldn't resist telling you of an article I found the other day. I was rummaging through a pile of magazines in a charity shop (as you do!) and found a copy of "Your Model Railway" from November 1984 which contained an article on "cut and shut" on a Lima 117 to make a Class 125. Immediately I thought of you, Gibbo, and the other DMU cutters! Now I know it is a stretch to see a 125 in Sheffield, but I was thinking that when they finished with them out of KX, instead of scrapping them, they were used to fill a gap in DMUs "up North"? Of course you may well have this article, but if any one wants a copy please PM me and I'll post you a copy? Cheers Paul

A question Kevin:- Noticing the toad in the above pic is verandah inwards, do you have all your toads facing the same way, or 50/50 in each direction, and why? Cheers Paul

Trevor is right when he says the more you know the more you realise you don't know! After investigating fish flows on GWR/WR for some time I can summarise as follows:- There are 3 areas that are starting points for flows of full fish vans:- East coast ports (from Scotland down to Lowestoft); West Coast ports (such as Fleetwood); and WR ports such as South West Wales and Cornwall. The tricky bit is that some of the flows were full or empty depending on the starting point. So for instance Swindon saw westbound Full vans from the east coast via Banbury and Acton, and westbound empty flows back to Whitland! I know an empty van looks the same as a full one, but in the late 50s the BR Insulfish was not all conquering, soyou need to get the right type on the right train at particular times of day. Following my example of Swindon, a morning west bound fish van train should be LNER vans (full) from the east coast, but an afternoon/evening west bound train should be S6s etc (empty) on their way back to Whitland. The empty flows are in some ways easier to model as there were less dedicated trains and more attachment of vans to Parcels /passenger/ fast freight trains. Once I have as complete a picture as possible I will post here a list of what ran where and when. (Got to have plenty to keep me busy if we are all confined to barracks!!) Also, in investigating the carriage diagrams for fish vans I have realized that the uses of Fruit Ds were actually specified in them. So after the fish flows, it will be the Fruit flows! Cheers Paul

I hope no one is in self quarantine? Where ever you are, perhaps a bit more on Lower Thames Yard operations will be of interest? Another interesting sequence involves a class 121 railcar which on some trips combines with a trailer car and /or a parcels van. The 121+ trailer arrived with the trailer leading from Slough(actually my Branch Fiddle Yard) at 0740 in the Branch platform, leaving for High Wycombe at 0747 and arriving back from High Wycombe at 0922. It then left the trailer in the branch siding. In reality the trailer was behind the 121 and was left in the East end siding. However I have no east end siding and it is more interesting to have the trailer visible in the branch siding. Oddly, having left the trailer in the east end siding, the 121 then went and sat in the branch siding until 1245! It then moved to the Branch platform and left at 1305 for Bourne End. It returned at 1331 and then according to the carriage working book collected a parcels van from the east end siding! Those of you who are keeping up with this will have realized that early the 121 dropped its trailer into that siding, but the parcels van arrived after 0930, so can be dropped in front of the trailer! I avoid this complication by having the parcels train that drops off the above parcels van at 1207, dropping it into the down loop siding. (in reality this siding was very short, too short for the appropriate GUV or Syphon G). The 121 dropped the parcels van in the Branch platform, and left for Bourne end again at 1412, from whence it got back at 1437 and attached the parcels van for a trip to Aylesbury at 1506. The 121 returned to Maidenhead at 1755 towing a different parcels van to the one it left with at 1506! The 121 then dropped the parcel van (I drop it in neck of the yard sidings as it is on the opposite end of the 121 to that where the earlier parcels van was attached, but the carriage working book does not say where it was dropped!) It then picked up its trailer from the Branch siding and left for Bourne End ay 1855. It and the trailer returned as an empty diesel at 1936 running straight through to Slough (actually my Branch fiddle Yard). So this is quite an involved working, and one that will keep me on my toes as an operator! Happy modelling, and I hope you all stay healthy! Paul