Tallpaul69

If I was of a gloomy disposition, I would ask if that is the May 2021 session?? I can't imagine what all the folks of a certain age who don't have a hobby will do if we have to stick to this for the quoted 12-14 weeks! Never mind, all those modelling jobs we promise ourselves will get done when we have a minute will stand a chance in the following 14x7x12 x 60 =70,560 minutes (I am allowing 4 hrs a day for other activities and 8 hrs a day for sleep!). But as the Government have probably underestimated the length of time (as they do with most projects), it could be up to 4 times as long?? Never mind, Keep smiling! Paul

Look, I don't want coal in my milk, and we all know the old one about painting the coal, don't we? -But that was Black not Milky White!!! Ok- just making the point-Sorry Cheers Paul

Anyone got a spare garden shed?- just thinking out of the box!!

Hi Clive, I know I shouldn't drag you back to DMUs when you have finally got to running real trains (!!), but I couldn't resist telling you of an article I found the other day. I was rummaging through a pile of magazines in a charity shop (as you do!) and found a copy of "Your Model Railway" from November 1984 which contained an article on "cut and shut" on a Lima 117 to make a Class 125. Immediately I thought of you, Gibbo, and the other DMU cutters! Now I know it is a stretch to see a 125 in Sheffield, but I was thinking that when they finished with them out of KX, instead of scrapping them, they were used to fill a gap in DMUs "up North"? Of course you may well have this article, but if any one wants a copy please PM me and I'll post you a copy? Cheers Paul

A question Kevin:- Noticing the toad in the above pic is verandah inwards, do you have all your toads facing the same way, or 50/50 in each direction, and why? Cheers Paul

Trevor is right when he says the more you know the more you realise you don't know! After investigating fish flows on GWR/WR for some time I can summarise as follows:- There are 3 areas that are starting points for flows of full fish vans:- East coast ports (from Scotland down to Lowestoft); West Coast ports (such as Fleetwood); and WR ports such as South West Wales and Cornwall. The tricky bit is that some of the flows were full or empty depending on the starting point. So for instance Swindon saw westbound Full vans from the east coast via Banbury and Acton, and westbound empty flows back to Whitland! I know an empty van looks the same as a full one, but in the late 50s the BR Insulfish was not all conquering, soyou need to get the right type on the right train at particular times of day. Following my example of Swindon, a morning west bound fish van train should be LNER vans (full) from the east coast, but an afternoon/evening west bound train should be S6s etc (empty) on their way back to Whitland. The empty flows are in some ways easier to model as there were less dedicated trains and more attachment of vans to Parcels /passenger/ fast freight trains. Once I have as complete a picture as possible I will post here a list of what ran where and when. (Got to have plenty to keep me busy if we are all confined to barracks!!) Also, in investigating the carriage diagrams for fish vans I have realized that the uses of Fruit Ds were actually specified in them. So after the fish flows, it will be the Fruit flows! Cheers Paul

I hope no one is in self quarantine? Where ever you are, perhaps a bit more on Lower Thames Yard operations will be of interest? Another interesting sequence involves a class 121 railcar which on some trips combines with a trailer car and /or a parcels van. The 121+ trailer arrived with the trailer leading from Slough(actually my Branch Fiddle Yard) at 0740 in the Branch platform, leaving for High Wycombe at 0747 and arriving back from High Wycombe at 0922. It then left the trailer in the branch siding. In reality the trailer was behind the 121 and was left in the East end siding. However I have no east end siding and it is more interesting to have the trailer visible in the branch siding. Oddly, having left the trailer in the east end siding, the 121 then went and sat in the branch siding until 1245! It then moved to the Branch platform and left at 1305 for Bourne End. It returned at 1331 and then according to the carriage working book collected a parcels van from the east end siding! Those of you who are keeping up with this will have realized that early the 121 dropped its trailer into that siding, but the parcels van arrived after 0930, so can be dropped in front of the trailer! I avoid this complication by having the parcels train that drops off the above parcels van at 1207, dropping it into the down loop siding. (in reality this siding was very short, too short for the appropriate GUV or Syphon G). The 121 dropped the parcels van in the Branch platform, and left for Bourne end again at 1412, from whence it got back at 1437 and attached the parcels van for a trip to Aylesbury at 1506. The 121 returned to Maidenhead at 1755 towing a different parcels van to the one it left with at 1506! The 121 then dropped the parcel van (I drop it in neck of the yard sidings as it is on the opposite end of the 121 to that where the earlier parcels van was attached, but the carriage working book does not say where it was dropped!) It then picked up its trailer from the Branch siding and left for Bourne End ay 1855. It and the trailer returned as an empty diesel at 1936 running straight through to Slough (actually my Branch fiddle Yard). So this is quite an involved working, and one that will keep me on my toes as an operator! Happy modelling, and I hope you all stay healthy! Paul

What year is "Operation Cornwall as I don't have access to the publication? I can find in the 1961 carriage workings (Diagram 561) a Bloater on the 2pm Penzance to Crewe parcels as far as Bristol. I don't know if the use of the GWR term "bloater" carried on after the bloaters were replaced by the BR pattern vans c1960. Am currently investigating a 3pm Hull to Plymouth (via Swindon) fish train which I have tracked as far as Taunton at 0306 am! The trail of the Fish continues...…. Cheers Paul

Hi all you fish train addicts. Here is a quick run down of the results of my investigations into WR Fish flows:- The relevant WTTs show fish from Aberdeen and Grimsby/Hull arriving on 2/3 trains in the early hours at Oxford. From there flows went to Slough, the SR, and Swindon, then on from Swindon to the west country. Another late evening flow was from Acton to the west. I suspect this started at the East Anglian ports but I don't have the east Anglia WTTs to investigate that. Also mentioned is Fish/Parcels from Whitland to the London area. There was a dedicated empties return trip from Swindon late afternoon that picked up at Oxford. Where things get less certain is how the fish vans from various locations got back to Oxford, Whitland or Acton as the case may be! I suspect, and for the moment will look to model this way, that the empties came back in ones and twos via normal parcels trains or fast freights. Although it makes sense for there to be flows from the West Country ports to other parts of the country I suspect from the facts given in the recent BBC2 series on the Cornish fishing industry that even in the 50s/60s volumes were not that large and would not justify dedicated trains. It may be that trains such as the Penzance - London Perishables included fish vans, but I don't have the west country WTTs to investigate this? Hope the above is helpful? Cheers Paul

So Guys, getting back to more mainstream(?) modelling, when I was looking through my stock for a particular model, I came across (as you do!) a box of incomplete van models. There was from Ian Kirk a LNER Bogie Plate, a Mink C, a S^ Fish; from Parkside a mink G, and from Ratio a SR Bogie B. I reckon they were last looked at some 3 years ago before we moved house, so I had better get them sorted before they claim (my) record for the longest wagons to complete! Once fettled I'll have to find trains for them on Lower Thames Yard! I think the Minks and the bogie B can go into a Paddington - Bristol Parcels. The Fish could go into the morning Oxford to Slough Fish, but mostly this was ex LNER and LMS wagons as they came down on the overnight workings via the GCR from Aberdeen and Hull. So I will have to look into the trains that conveyed fish wagons from Whitland. I've a feeling that they might have combined with meat wagons conveying beef from Ireland? Any thoughts anyone? The bogie plate will I think end up empty in a Freight from the High Wycombe branch. Happy modelling Cheers Paul

Hi All, Can anyone advise which trains during the late 50s/early 60s between Slough and Reading were likely to have used Mink Gs and which were likely to use Fruit Ds? I wondered if the Fruit Ds were used on the fruit traffic from Worcestershire or the Strawberry traffic from the south west? Might the Mink Gs have been used on furniture traffic on the Branch from High Wycombe? Many thanks Paul

Not sure if they havn't come off the Rails with this one? Either that or it seems to me there is going to be an awful lot of layouts where Rule1 will get an airing to justify a purchase! I am afraid I won't be joining the rush(?) to place a preorder. Or is it me that is completely off the rails??? Cheers Paul

Very good Kevin, only trouble is we will all want more video now!

Afternoon All, In my earlier post on the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels, when talking about the vans returning down the Branch from Aylesbury to Maidenhead, I said:- Stock item Destination Route Van to Didcot Ex Aylesbury via 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead I should have made it clear that this van did not form part of the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels. In fact it may have started its days working from Didcot, but this requires further investigation. We first have definite documentation of it on the 1138 Paddington to Didcot parcels, where it was noted that this must be an empty large 8 wheel van or two smaller 4 wheel vans! This note suggests the van started there and did not come in from Didcot, although the trip from Didcot to Paddington could have formed the last part of the vans previous day's trip either late the day before or early the current day. This van was dropped off at Maidenhead during a 1207-1212 stop. It then went up the branch on the 1506 passenger train to Aylesbury arriving at 1621. It was then swapped for the Empty Churns van, and the train left for Maidenhead at 1642. Meanwhile the large van was loaded, and attached with the Passenger Brake Van off the 0540 parcels from Reading, to the 1825 to Maidenhead on its way to Didcot as noted above. This complicated routine may just have been a way to avoid an empty van running from Paddington to Didcot and a second van then being required to get from Didcot to Aylesbury empty to form the loaded run from Aylesbury to Didcot. I hope I have clarified rather than confused this issue? Having said all this can anyone suggest what the daily load was that required a large van to run from Aylesbury to Didcot? Cheers Paul

Hi Paul, My source of van workings is the "Working of Diesel Unit and Coach (Local Passenger and Parcels Trains) London Division ", which is available for a number of different years as is also similar documents for the early 70s. They can be downloaded for free from Robert Carroll's coaching web site. Best regards Paul (Tallpaul69)

A lucky escape! Sorry, Can't readily suggest a source for 2" wide double sided, that is quite wide for that material! Maybe the dreaded internet? But a definite cheer for John, and a brilliant demonstration of the benefits of having a good relationship with suppliers. Hope it all works out ok? Cheers Paul

Hi All, I thought I would explain the operation, makeup, and how I intend to model one of my favourite trains that operated in the early 60s through Maidenhead. This was the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels. I have always liked Parcels trains and this one is the eccentric practicality of the trains of the era at its best! It had a good mix of vans, which I will come back to in a moment, and its U turn at Maidenhead is a delight! So it started at Reading at 0540, having gathered vans arriving from a number of starting points, and arrived in the Goods line at Maidenhead c 555 where its loco detached with any vans for Maidenhead, before picking up a GUV left by an early down parcels train. It waited until the 0600 to Paddington had left the Branch platform, and then pulled forward into it. The Loco then ran round, and departed up the High Wycombe branch at 0620. So from Reading the makeup was:- Engine:- (I have yet to find conclusive evidence of what was used but I am getting variety into the area’s diet of 57xx and 61xx tanks by using a 56xx tank) Vans for Maidenhead (I am using 2, one vacuum braked 4 wheel, one WR pattern one BR pattern) Vans for High Wycombe (I am using 3:- a fruit D, a LMS pattern vacuum braked van, and a CCT) Vans for Aylesbury (I am using 2:- a Mink G plus a PMV) Van (Milk in Churns) for Aylesbury (I am using a Siphon G) Passenger Full Brake Van for Aylesbury (I am using a Mk1 BG) From Maidenhead the makeup was:- Engine Passenger Full Brake Van for Aylesbury Van (Milk in Churns) for Aylesbury Vans for Aylesbury Vans for High Wycombe GUV ex Paddington for High Wycombe There is no return parcels train down the branch, so how did the vans get back to Reading? They return to Maidenhead in ones and twos attached to branch passenger trains including the GUV that started the day at Paddington before being dropped off by a down parcels train at Maidenhead to join the 0540 parcels train to High Wycombe which ended up on to the head of the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading with an ultimate destination of Crewe via the 2030 Greenford to Birkenhead Parcels. I have yet to find out how it got back from Crewe to Paddington, but the timings suggest two vans were needed to maintain this service each running as above on alternate days! So the parcels vans came down the branch as follows:- GUV to Crewe Ex High Wycombe via 1850 High Wycombe to Maidenhead Van to Didcot Ex Aylesbury via 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead Passenger Brake van to Reading Ex Aylesbury via 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead Van (empty Churns) to Chippenham Ex Aylesbury via 1642 Aylesbury to Maidenhead So these are gathered at Maidenhead and returned to Reading on the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading Parcels. But only the Passenger Brake van stays at Reading ready to join the following day’s 0540 Parcels. So the van for Didcot joins the GUV on the Birkenhead Parcels, and the Churn van joins the 2240 Paddington to Penzance parcels on its way to Chippenham. So what happened to the vans from the 0540 Reading parcels not returning via the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading parcels:- Those dropped at Maidenhead were probably picked up around 2206-2216 by the up 0842 Shrewsbury to Paddington parcels, and then returned to their starting points via various parcels trains from Paddington. Those dropped at High Wycombe were probably returned via OOC/Paddington, and the WR main line. Those dropped at Aylesbury were probably also returned via High Wycombe, OOC/Paddington, and the WR main line. However, this is on the basis that their best route back to their starting point is via the WR main line Without knowing their starting points, I cannot tell whether this is a valid assumption! If anyone has fact or suggestions for the items above that I do not have facts to support, please feel free to post the details. Many thanks Paul

Thanks Brian, I have just sent you a PM Cheers Tallpaul69

Hi All, Does anyone know of an equivalent resource for Freight traffic or engine workings to Robert Carroll's brilliant Coach working documents, apart from the likes of Didcot Railway Museum, NRM,or National Records Kew etc.? I am looking to enhance my information on Freight and Engine workings between Slough and Reading in the period 1960-62. I have Freight WTTS for winter 1954 and Summer 1961 and partial Engine workings for Southall and OOC but still would like more detail. In particular I need Freight Train Marshalling booklets, which I have not yet found any. Please PM me if you have anything you are willing to sell or photocopy (I will pay reasonable costs and postage) Some books do come up on Ebay, but are expensive! Many thanks Paul

Good afternoon All, The running of the railway in the 60s could be very complex, but we should remember that such complexity always had a reason, because complexity usually implie cost and always, even before the modern craze for cost cutting came along, the railway did not incur cost for no good reason. A case relevant to Lowe Thames Yard is the Maidenhead Shunting Engines. Simplistically Maidenhead had a shunter from 0930 until 2100. However this period actually involved three different engines and defined (in the WTT), but in practice varied, periods of Passenger /parcels, and goods shunting. So the process of shunting and changing shunting engines was as follows:- The first arrived 0930 from Slough. It shunted passenger/parcels until 1200 when it turned to goods shunting It then swaped with the engine on the 1325 from Bourne End arriving 1343 which departed for Taplow at 1353 The engine from the 1343 arrival then shunted goods until 1930 when it departed to Slough shed The engine that picked up the 1325 from Bourne End arrived at Taplow at 1357 It returned through Maidenhead with a local goods arriving at 1537 where it was allowed 5 mins to take water before leaving for High Wycombe at 1542 Finally the engine off the 1850 passenger from High Wycombe which arrived at 1923, shunted its coaches to the branch sidings then replaced the shunter that left for Slough at 1930 but primarily shunted passenger/parcels vans until leaving at 2100. I suspect that this complexity was to allow for crew change overs and coaling of engines, but others better versed in such practices than I can probably enlighten us? Cheers Paul.

Morning All, This morning's paper talks of limiting sporting fixtures to 500 attendees, so I read this as hinting that as result shows such as Ally Pally and York, might get the chop! There is a big government meeting with sports organisations on Monday, I think I will wait until we see the outcome of that before I book my ticket! Cheers Paul

I know Gibbo, I was just pulling your hoof:- I have one of the original Triang Scotch Beef containers although the label on mine is a bit scruffyl

Getting back to modelling:- Had mixed luck this morning:- Liberated an example of the latest WR Toad from AGRs shelves. Justified the purchase on the grounds that it is in weathered grey! Yes, I know I could weather one of the half dozen or so I already have, but my excuse is that I need to have one pre weathered to measure my efforts against. (Don't hold your breath waiting to see my efforts, there is along queue outside the wagon works and the works is on a one day week (if you are lucky!!). Not so good were my efforts to book an advanced ticket for Ally Pally. I'd forgotten in the last year that I had registered with the site, so wasted time trying to register after choosing ticket. Then when site told me I was registered wasted more time as couldn't remember password. Then got to paying only to find basket had timed out! Hadn't realized basket had a time running down! So gave up, try again tomorrow!! Still a few amusing comments on posts on this site has restored my good humour. Keep smiling! Cheeers Paul

Didn't know they replaced cattle wagons with containers?

Talking of cuts and shuts, have you or Clive any new daring deeds to entertain us with? Or is everything cut but not yet shut? Cheers Paul