Porcy Mane

Just spent an hour lurking around flickr. Found this view over ICI wWilton showing the Lackenby works with Redcar and Teesmouth on the horizon. 074-28 by Sou'wester, on Flickr Bit more of interest in his County Durham & Cleveland Album. https://www.flickr.com/photos/cliveabrown/sets/72157607428796644 P

Part of Eden/Leadgate colliery network. There was a rope worked and creeper system of narrow gauge surface railways linking the sharts/drifts here, (Old maps OS ref NZ 147 515) with the main Colliery/washer at Leadgate. (Old maps OS ref. NZ 132 520) The area was recently opencast mined. (again) You've seen the pics but plenty of pics on Flickr. Oh and this. From a poor transparency. Do a fuller reply later. Busy at the moment. P

Excellent body of work. Thanks kindly for posting them. Porcy

Dunno about that. Hope Dave doesn't mind the slight hijack? (Again) You're quite right the coal seams dip from West to East so Dawdon Colliery on the coast, its shafts were approx. 1800 ft deep whereas one of East Hettons shafts (to the Harvey[N] Coal Seam) was 800 Feet. East Hetton was approx. 10 miles inland. Don't quote me on those depths as I'm doing this from memory and there was probably as many mine shafts in Northumberland and Durham as there was blades of grass. But that is only half of the story. Coal seams were originally christened with names and as technology and geology advanced these seams were also given a much simpler nationwide index letter designation. Miners still used the names but this could be confusing, as in some instances the same seam names were used to identify physically different coal seams at different collierys. This could become even more confusing if you looked at things regionally for example Yorkshire seam names differed totally to that used in Durham. To give you some idea of how many seams there were (Not all were viably workable) in Durham. The most shallow seam was indexed as "A" Hebburn Fell Seam. (There were 3 minor coal seams above this.) The deepest was indexed as "V" Ganister Clay. From memory the letters I and W were never used in Northumberland or Durham. There were many smaller unworkable coal seams in between the indexed coal measures. Should you want a full list I can one somewhere. There could be considerable difference in height the of coal seams and depths between strata. What this meant was if you were sinking a shaft once you encountered the first coal seam it could be hundreds of feet till you were at the bottom seam. Early 19th century mining engineers would use a bore hole to prove the most viable "thickest" seam. and than use a simple depth x area calculation to work out a volume of coal but sometimes due to their geological naivety got things terribly wrong. Your right about coastal collieries working undersea coal measures. I can't remember how far without checking, but up to ten miles seems to ring a bell. Ventilation would then become a problem. The NCB had their own independent exploration company that operated offshore exploration rigs in the 1960's and 70's and it is the misinterpretation of the boring results that led to the massive over estimation of workable coal reserves off the North East coast. The coal is there but to work it viably using deep mining techniques would have been costly. There are proposals now being mooted that will see the energy being released from these coal reserves by high pressure schemes using chemical injection. And yes you're right about there still being ample coal left in the North East. That's why there is continual opencast planning applications on going. You mention the hills in Sheffield. I know them only too well. That's through spending too many weekends throughout the 1980's in the City visiting such "desirable establishments" as Josephine's and Cairo Jax(Corporation) but you'll be too young to remember those dives. P With apologies to Dave for drifting way... way off topic.

Sorry Brian, but I have to differ with that statement (but would never dream of hitting the Disagree button). With regard to Co. Durham, yes to the West in the low foothills of the Pennines there were drifts but most of these collieries still had shafts to lower seams but to describe East Durham as flat is something of a misnomer. In Coal mining terms, the Old A1 road (now A167) was generally used as the border between East (Flat)and West(Hilly) Durham or what was/is known in geographical terms as the exposed or concealed coalfield. In pitmatic language this unofficial border also defined, dependant on where a miner lived whether that miner was a "Cod Heed" or a "Sheepsha**er". This topographical border in reality can be much more sharply defined along the western escarpment of the magnesium limestone ridge which runs, South down the coast to almost reach the Hartlepools and has a westerly running leg that runs through Ferryhill, (where the ECML takes advantage of the glacial cut gap that runs through the escarpment) Shildon (where Shildon Tunnel passes through the escarpment) and Butterknowle (were the George Stephenson had to build his Butterknowle incline for the Stockton and Darlington to surmount the escarpment). Without going into the geology of the area to deeply even the east of Durham to the coast is comparatively hilly apart from the high ground of the East Durham Plateau. That's why collieries on the plateau such as Haswell, South Hetton, Murton and the relatively new (1959) Hawthorne shaft were served by self acting inclines. Most of the coastal collieries with the exception of Westoe were sunk on the top of high limestone cliffs. Think of the Durham Coast railway viaducts that cross Dawdon, Hawthorne and Castle Eden Denes. Probably the only real Durham mining area that was comparatively flat were the collieries in the region that is now Washington New Town. Off the top of my head and not including early collieries they were Washington F, Glebe, Harraton, Usworth and Wardly. Even these collieries at one time utilised inclines to get to staithes in the steep valleys of the rivers Wear and Tyne. I only live nine miles from the coast so I'm definitely in the east of the county yet there was three coal drifts nearby the nearest only being a few hundred yards away. As I write this there is a six foot high coal seam of untouched coal measure about 20 feet below the soles of my feet. All that is keeping us apart is my homes foundations and about 17 feet of Glacial Till. The Northumberland coalfield on the other hand was on the surface (no pun intended) much flatter than Co. Durham as shown in Dave's wonderful photo of Woodhorn. This differing topography between Durham and Northumberland is why the more powerful Q6 dominated mineral train haulage in Co. Durham and the J27 predominated in the South East Northumberland Coalfield. That difference in topography also influenced BRs decision to delay early dieselisation of the North Eastern Region in deference to development of the Class 7* (Seven Star) freight train classification thus prolonging the life of the Q6 and J27 but that's another story... That's why I love the hills of East (and West) Durham. Apologies for being such a bore. P

Good pic of the Tyne Dock iron ore gantry in it's environs. Iron Ore Quay, Tyne Dock, 1962 by Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums, on Flickr Worth comparing with the view in this post. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/15402-the-tyne-dock-consett-thread/page-8&do=findComment&comment=1589346 P

... and the colour of the drivers underpants...

The Oxford Die cast BMC Special Tuning Transporter and Mobile training unit have bodies of injection moulded clear plastic. (acrylic?) The main paint finish is applied to the inside surface. Lovely model but I have a few reservations about the plonk on grill. I was once quite intimate with the competitions dept/special tuning transporter. Porcy

Mike, See post #8. P

Pure speculation on my part: Oxford diecast partake in the, now , typical marketing practice (so beloved by camera manufacturers) of counting down to a product announcement mentally enticing prospective buyers to work themselves up into such a frenzy, via interweb forums etc., etc.etc., that they will purchase that product no matter what that product is. Is the Blood & Custard colours of the advert a clue or camouflage??? Oh dear... I've fallen for it... I'm adding to the "hype"! Porcy

Looks like Durham Wharf. Probably originally used to import Durham Coal. Possibly then rebuilt to export bottles? One of the partners in the large bottle works that was established behind where the photographer was standing was Robert Candlish of Seaham Bottleworks. (A street in Seaham near were the Seaham Bottle/Chemical works was, is called Candlish Street) With Seaham being a major Durham coal shipping harbour and London being a major market there was a probable link. Nice phot. Porcy

Then why did you ask if your assumption was correct? I simply answered your query. (as did others) P

Sometimes it pays to read through a thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83317-invicta-commission-Bachmann-to-produce-cct/page-7&do=findComment&comment=1580623 If Gibson P4 jobbies fit... you should have no trouble with EM. As has already been said expect to do a bit of fettling with the brake shoes. P

I wonder what will happen to the Stone??? P

And his family connections to steel... and the obvious anti nationalisation bias. (the film was commissioned as an anti nationalisation vehicle) and the impression that all Consett men dressed in tweeds and went salmon fishing on their copious days off... and ... and ... To be fair a good few men in the then private coal industry were anti nationalisation as some of the employers were classed as good employers providing many benefits for miners families and communities. P

Probably any works that manufactured stainless or specialist steels. Feasibly a brickworks that made Chromate Magnesium refractory bricks or even the Eaglescliffe Chemical Co that became British Chrome Ltd, (In 1954 I think) manufacturers of Chromate Chemicals, that had a multitude of uses... To the query re wagons used prior to the 56 tonners, the original official write up on the introduction of them, I'm sure gave a potted history of wagons used previously but I'm bu**ered if I can find my copy of it at the mo. Will report back if and when... Oh! and there is probably something in "Railways of North West Durham" by Whittle. P

Probably supports for the Sunderland to Washington chemical Works seawater pipe. It followed the route of the railway. P

That's a new one on me. Does Google give any idea which book it's from or who the photographer is/was? P

Your mention of Monkwearmouths CCT has jogged the brain cells and sent me of in a scurry to rummage through my print collection. I think the CCT at Sunderland is near original and has fine mesh on the inside. I like your use of the word conserve as opposed to preserve but suspect Sunderland Museums (or whoever the guardian of the CCT is nowadays) don't know the difference. Found this pic on Flickr; 120626_Newcastle_9482f by routebus537, on Flickr In my print collection I have two 10" x 8" hand prints at different exposures reduced from the same York plate of Vehicle 1296. They are dated 16 & 24 August 1942. I think the different exposures are to show different detail due a white roof. It must have taken them 3 years to get round to doing the prints as the lift and paint dates are clearly visible as June 1939. I've attached a scan of the windows and although not conclusive in the scan, inspection of the original print using a 10x high quality loupe, the centre pairs of windows are definitely fine mesh. You can even see where the fixing nails/screws have distorted the mesh. The reason I started to look for the Science & Society pics was that on seeing the model it reminded me of a conversation I had with a retired railwayman many years ago as to why the centre windows were as they were. (It was at Monkwearmouth) He said he didn't know but reasoned that glass could have easily broke due to the sliding doors hitting their stops. That didn't explain why the outer right hand windows remained glazed. I also suspect ventilation had nothing to do with using mesh as the smaller pair of windows on the left hand side opened. Hinged centrally along the short side, if I remember correctly. Must look and see if there is a drawing next time I'm in search engine. P EDIT. Months after my original post. Rather than mesh I've just come across a document were the LNER describes the "mesh" as "Perforated Zink"

I would think Hornby has got the blanked windows correct for a proportion of the CCTs. Quickest way to prove that would be to check out these links. http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443238&itemw=4&itemf=0003&itemstep=71&itemx=119 http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443239&itemw=4&itemf=0003&itemstep=71&itemx=120 Maybe it was just done for CCT's used in car carrying traffic? Porcy

I'm sure no one would mind if you posted them here? P

King George Dock, Kingston upon Hull. http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw036389?search=hull&ref=114 Porcy

I've slipped in a set of Gibson 14mm coach wheels (back to backs set at 17.75mm) with nothing more than mods to the brake blocks. I found the wheels fitted and spun freely with no relieving to the rear of W irons necessary. The Brake assemblies were well glued but I removed them by first removing the body then the top plate of the coupling mechanism. This gave me access to the top surface of the brake block mounting holes which were lightly countersunk. I then used a 1 mm rod in a pin vice to then push out the brake blocks. I next drilled a new set of mounting holes right next to the inner face of the sole bar into which my modified brake blocks were fitted. I modded the blocks by removing the offset part of the moulding but being careful to retain the mounting spigots. This left me with eight individual brake blocks instead of the original 4 assemblies These were fixed into the new mounting holes using hypo glue to ease removal when it comes to eventually fitting sprung W irons. The floor is quite shallow so to fit sprung W irons it looks like a section of the floor will need to be removed and a higher false floor added to achieve the correct ride height. The original W iron would need to be filed away leaving the spring intact. Similar to what's been done to this Van C. Back to the CCT. I'll probably be replacing the vac cylinders as they look to be well under scale and the larger of the V hangers scale out at almost five inches thick so they may be replaced. The bracket holding the voltage regulator to my eye looks a little on the large side and hangs a bit too low so may get altered to be more in line with my Masterclass models example. Also need to make up the missing grab handle from the right hand nearside ends and I'll definitely be replacing the roof vents and adding the roof weld lines. Hope the above doesn't sound to critical as they're minor niggles for what is an excellent model. Thanks Bachmann. Porcy

So next question is, what's the difference? (Betwixt the LMS coach Buffer and the buffer used on the Lima thingy) Maybe I need to swot up on LMS coaching stock buffers??? But: P Edit: Wet Kipper time again. (It's still handy...) You're going to say clipped heads aren't you!

Are you talking this type Dave? Excuse the quick drift OT. Porcy EDIT. I've just slapped myself round the face with a wet kipper. Realised your probably talking about the 42 footer. The word bogie didn't register!