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This thread has been a bit quiet just lately, has Wayne extended the range recently? New additions? How are sales doing? I'm looking at replacing a hand-built single slip on my layout, the problem is that it's on a curve of possible 60" or 72" radius, I can't remember, I lost the Templot plan for it many years ago. ISTR it's either a B6 or B8, 00 gauge. the slip road is on the outside of the curve and is almost straight. Would one of Wayne's curve to that sort of radius? -
Building the track Well the pointwork has been basically completed and appears to be satisfactory. Much better than my previous attempt so far, although there is along way to go till the track can be properly tested under working conditions. For my second attempt at using the Easitrac plastic chairs on ply sleepers I thought that I’d follow the general principles that I have used in the larger scales. Use a few key attachment points to which the rails could be soldered to give strength and location combined with supplying the power. When finished half chairs are fitted to cosmetically disguise/hide them. I think following a method I am familiar with has helped to get a better result. Previously I struggled to get the track to hold gauge and consistent flangeways with checkrails that worked as they should. The locations I use are the first past the last slide chair, so the two rails, the stock and closure, are bonded together electrically and this also gives strength to the closure against the twisting forces involved when the blades are moved back and forth. The others are under the crossing nose and the sleeper behind it where the wing rails end. These again both support the crossing nose and bond the whole lot electrically which of course changes polarity depending on the throw of the points. All the turnouts are A6’s, but only one is straight, the other two being contraflexed to differing degrees to fit the track design. An aspect to note is that while it is often stated that an ‘A’ switch has 5 slide chairs, a ‘B’ 6, and a ‘C’ 7 and so forth, there are actually another two slide chairs of a different type fitted before the first fixed chairs. So using ‘A’s the location I bond them at is sleeper 8 from the point tips. Now of course you can’t solder to ply, plus the rail needs to be held above the sleepers by the same amount as the chairs do. In 4mm I used copper rivets to do both, provide a solder point and raise the rail away from the sleeper. For 2mm I decided to try and use the Versaline etched chairplates normally used with the pcb sleepers, but drilling them 0.3mm in their centre to take soft iron wire soldered into place. With a matching hole drilled in the ply sleeper the wire is threaded through so the plate sits on the top and the wire then bent over and pressed (squeezed with pliers) into the underside and run to the edge and beyond. This then retains the plate on the sleeper at a fixed point and provides the means for electrical connection. The sleepers themselves are cut from 1/32 ply which is just about the same thickness as the pcb type. It was a slow process using butanone to glue the chairs in place. You can see I marked the template with different coloured dots to remind me where the different chairs went. This helps when threading them on the rail. This construction was done on the workbench on a printout from Templot with the sleepers held in place on the plan with two thin strips of d/s tape under the rail line. A digital multimeter was used to keep checking the electrical connections remained good as the soldered track joints were made. A bespoke roller gauge was used, one made on the lathe some years back. This differs in that it has two square flanges at flangeway width (0.5mm) and wheel flange depth (again 0.5mm) set at the track gauge. The resulting look of the trackwork is pleasing even in it's raw state. As the three turnouts were together in a line I decided to try and make them as one conjoined unit for ease of laying on the baseboard. They will be laid first, and all the plain track fitted after as it's easier I find to 'adjust' plain track for alignment if any small errors creep in. This is my standard method of laying such track. The plain line track will also be produced using the chairs on ply sleepers to keep the look consistent. How all this will actually be done is still being worked out. This is because aspects like tie-bars and how they will be operated is still to be decided. There are a few options and I am unsure as to whether I will remove the trackwork from the paper template or glue it down as it is. I have read of others doing it this way, or even building trackwork directly onto the baseboard, but up until now I have always removed the track from the template and then laid it onto the cork. This can make it tricky as sometimes the slide chair timbers come loose. Leaving the paper in place seems easier, and especially in 2mm but I only tacked the sleepers down with the two thin d/s strips so I'm wary as to whether this may cause issues. Bob
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Thanks for the replies folks! I’ve been playing on Templot and this is what I’ve come up with: Oddly enough, this very closely resembles my first design, the only difference being that bottom siding curved toward the RH edge rather than the bottom corner. Still undecided…
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The Track Plan As the idea was just to use three points the basic track plan didn’t take too long to generate. There has to be, or I want there to be, a run around loop so I can use it with just one loco if I choose. So that means it’s that plus two sidings. But the actual formation has only just been decided after trying a few different designs in Templot. Printing them out, testing with rolling stock etc. It was only three sheets of A4 a time, so it wasn’t too onerous. In order to help decide the basic way it would all work I have drawn up a full plan of how I imagined the sidings would exist alongside the main line both sides of the bridge. I also imagined there was a low bank between the running lines and the exchange sidings after the overbridge. All rather contrived but it all helped to set the scene in my mind. I made the assumption all points would be trailing. There would be a fairly long headshunt along the running line, and the line to the cement works would come off the loop. This then bought up an interesting revelation as regards the operation of how trains arrive and depart the sidings. Which would depend on the direction they arrived from, and departed too. In the down they would be propelled backwards both in and out, while in the up they would be as you normally see, loco first. Two basic designs have been drawn up. One uses a twin arch bridge with the tracks thus well spaced and the other a single arch with the tracks in a pair. I placed stock on both in turn and couldn’t decide which was best, would be more likely to have existed in real life. The reason for the twin arch was the idea this might hide the fiddle yard better, make it not quite so obvious. With this plan I also spaced the sidings out at the minimum distance used for sidings of 15’2” (so 31mm) rather than the minimum standard 11’2” used for plain line tracks. After some consideration I’ve decided to go with this design. I like the twin/multiple arch approach which I have seen used to really good effect on other small layouts when used for the same purpose, as the scenic break. As this is meant to be something to play around with in terms of trying out odd new ideas, for the track I have toyed with using the new British Finescale 3D printed base turnouts alongside Easitrac for the plain line. However, historically plastic based track and I have not generally got along. Indeed it was struggling with plastic based OO RTL track in the late ‘60’s that first pushed me to try making my own track. At this time soldered construction using rail on pcb sleepers was the latest thing to arrive. I never looked back. In later times I switched to using functional chairs on ply sleepers. At first this was with whitemetal chairs but when plastic moulded ones arrived in the 1980’s I changed to using them. This has been in several different scales, all somewhat larger than 2mm. I have in the past tried using Easitrac chairs on ply sleepers for pointwork combined with plain line Easitrac but the smaller size meant it was a struggle for me at the time, the pointwork, and so I reverted to soldered construction using etched chairplates on pcb sleepers. I did that for all the track to keep it looking consistent and matching. I have kept meaning to give it another go, chairs on ply sleepers, and so I have decided this is the time to do just that. To see if I can find a way to make it work. Whether I can or not it will be good to give it a try. So it may be a while before there is another post dealing with the track construction….. Bob
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Funny you should ask, but I just did a test fitting of Piko ICE3 wheels. These bogies are printed in 'Anycubic ABS-like V2'. This was my first go with ABS V2, but it's very popular with in the Templot forum for printing chairs. This wheelset popped in quite easily - but the resin hasn't been fully cure yet. It might be that it becomes too rigid and cracks once it's cured. However, it's predecessor, the 'ABS-like +' , remained slightly pliable even after curing so I'm hopeful that it will be ok. I tried to fit a mueller 8.3mm tillig/bttb wheelset, but they have slightly longer pins. I'll need to re-version the bogie for those wheels if I use them and I'm also going to add holes for Peco NR-91 bearing cups anyway... these bogies are designed for the bin ultimately*, so that's no loss, but it's a promising start. (*There's also a weird print defect on the back of the bogies where it skews off at 45 degrees before finishing off the print.)
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Thanks Lez. I am pretty close to finishing the trackwork now. Only 4 simple turnouts plus this formation to go, and I have plenty of ply timbering left. I think my simple turnouts are ok as built with ply and plastic chairs now. I only used copperclad through the diamonds for the stability of soldering those very short pieces of rail needed to maintain electrical isolation through the crossings. Once I realised the issue with thickness I thought I’d better use as much copperclad as I could through the turnouts too, and plug the gaps later. Adding the n/s shim under the rail significantly complicates the process too. I am using pieces slightly too large and then using the Dremel to remove the excess leaving space for chairs to be added. If - or more likely when - I restart, I think I will use brass chairs on copperclad selectively through the turnouts, with ply timbers and plastic chairs between these. Only through the checkrailed diamonds and where the rail pieces are so small will I need to use copperclad and shim. I think, at least. I also noticed a problem with timbering through the second diamond. I only have one timber between v and k crossings each side, but I need 2 to give a sensible look to the rail break. Probably the timbering which interleaves from the first diamond and the two adjacent turnouts should be revisited too. That seems now to be not as logical as it felt when I did the Templot plan. Iain
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Exchange Yard Sidings It’s strange sometimes how the acquisition of an odd loco or piece of rolling stock can start the development of a layout. Having obtained an NGS Hunslet industrial shunter my thoughts have naturally turned to what to do with it. I have long thought about making a small/micro layout to replace Odds End, (the test layout built around various bits and pieces I made when first starting in 2FS), that could be placed on my workbench. Something to do the odd bit of shunting on, test locos or stock when other layouts are not available and so on. And just have a bit of enjoyment making it. I then thought I would share details of it’s construction in case it encouraged others to consider trying their hand at making a small and simple, and not too expensive, 2FS layout. That the Hunslet body was blue started a line of thought about Blue Circle Cement locos and exchange sidings for cement works. I dug around for photos/info and read about the workings at the Blue Circle works at Claydon near Ipswich, the nearest location to me and one I had past many times during it’s working life. It was served by sidings off the main line north to Stowmarket and beyond, trip workings from Ipswich with coal for power and cement wagons and vans for the cement products produced. Needing to keep things small I decided that I could build an exchange sidings design based around the idea a resident Blue Circle shunter was used to transfer the wagons to the works, these being located a bit further away from the main line than was actually the case at Claydon. BR locos would of course bring and take them away, my thoughts revolving around the fact I had plenty of cement wagons, mineral wagons, and vans to use, along with a variety of green and blue era diesels. So the Hunslet has now been finished in erstwhile Blue Circle livery. I say this because details of their locos seem scarce, it seems they didn’t have many, and images are thus few in number. Of those found the liveries varied and so I finished it in a manner I thought it might have been had such a loco existed in the timescale covered, the ‘60’s to ‘80’s. When it came to having a name for the layout I decided that it had set that for itself. So it’s Exchange Sidings. As it had to sit on the portable workbench the overall length needed to reflect that. This had to include whatever fiddle arrangement was used. It couldn’t be very long so it balanced properly i.e. wouldn’t tip up when working the fiddle yard. Now I have long been an admirer of Ian Futers 3 point layouts and so wanted to try this with the concept of the fiddle yard sector plate acting as the ‘unseen’ half of the run around loop as is now quite common with small layouts. These ideas and requirements basically set the size of what the layout could be. To have a bogie diesel loco with around half a dozen wagons needs around 16-17”, so this set the sector plate length at 18” for a bit of wriggle room. I did consider using the diamond jubilee layout challenge size for the layout itself, roughly 9”x 24”, having played around designing the odd one or two in Templot, but it felt too short with perhaps more width than needed when it was just going to be a few lengths of roughly parallel track. So I set the desired width at 7” and the length at 30”. Apart from the width all these sizes altered during the construction of the baseboard and sector plate to make allowance for the actual design finally used. I’ll detail this next post. Bob
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@ikcdab Hi Ian, That's what the program size slider is for (bottom right of screen): Adjust it to give Templot a comfortable size on your screen. cheers, Martin.
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i am now using Win11 for the first time on a new HP laptop. Generally very impressed, BUT the dialogue text in some soiftware is really small. Here is an example from Templot against Rmweb. The dialogue box is almost too small to read. It isn't all programs, Word and excel etc are fione, but Coreldraw has the issue. It isnt changing the text size as most of the text is OK, it jsut seems to be in some dialogue boxes. I have screen resolution set to the recomended 3000 x 2000. Any ideas?
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A little more research over lunch today shows that Luxulyan was originally a single bay platform (accessed as far as I can see by walking across the track). Which pretty much settles it from a design point of view, although by the late 90s the second track on the lower side of the platform is long gone. The main area of potential refinement to the plan will be on the right hand side, ideally I'd like to keep it at 4 ft as it will make transport (and storage) a lot easier. which leaves a question as to whether there will be enough room to end the headshunt on scene or if it will have to continue off board. Ideally if ending on scene it will need some bushes or something to help brake up the joint between baseboard and backscene. The next step will be printing off a full Templot plan to do some mock ups with buildings / rolling stock and get a better idea how its looking. At this rate I am seriously thinking about getting the baseboard ordered and getting started (though I probably ought to get a bit more done on Brent first)... A question to exhibition managers, Would the extension to the layout make any difference to the desirability for bookings having 8ft scenic + 8ft of fiddleyards vs the current situation of 4ft scenic + 8ft of fiddleyard? While the layout was well received at its two shows last year, and I was given something like 4 verbal invites for 24/25 nothing has materialised, which has me wondering if the relative scenic - storage ratio is counting against it. (With the thought that extending the layout so it is 50:50 scenic to fiddleyard might make it more appealing). -
Not much to report - I have been busy building/decorating two en-suites. Managed to do another stock review, which was the first step in a re-plan of the fiddle yards: how many "long" trains will be a factor. I realised that "Express 3" is a carriage short of my 7 carriage limit, as is the Hawksworth rake. That has been remedied via Ebay and I have a Hawksworth brake third and a Mainline Centenary compo already updated/re-logo'd etc in the Cabinet. That makes express coaching/NPCCS rakes 7 long not including power, or an addition like the Bullion Car. I also have a few long non-brown stock trains such as the breakdown train, a long van train idea for a 47XX, and some long coal stock hauled by something like an Austerity, an 8F, a ROD, a 28XX..... I do follow a couple of the larger layouts on YouTube and have picked up some good tips One that has made a huge change to NC is making the fiddle yards at "ground level" and not under the main baseboards. So the scenic sections will be on the inside of a rectangle, and on the other side of the backscene will be the fiddle yards - which are therefore "Buffalo Girls"* To get the length of fiddle yard siding (double ended) plus a turntable for each yard ( Up and Down), and two cross-overs, I have gone beyond the length of the scenic portion, so the entrances and exits, and some of the siding will end up being round a curve and possibly the short side of the layout will house the turntables, points and cross overs. Laid straight is looks like this at the exit end of both yards: I'm still going for Code 100, and "standard" points. I know you can get more roads in with Y points and Peco 3 ways, but it would be nice to be able to get the giant pink shunting cranes down between the rows of stock if I need to. I know I can use Templot etc, but I'm enjoying my old school methodology. Unanswered questions include: 1. Where and how to transition into and out of the fiddle yards into the scenic section? 2. How and from where are the yards controlled? I made the jump from DC to DCC - am I ready for automation??????? 3. How do I fill the other "long side" of the scenic section? (That was going to be the yard on NC Mk 1). I could make the brewery and furniture depository become the (now empty) long side. and use the free'd up short side for warehousing, simple through lines and create the entrances and exits for the fiddle yards...... The shed where NC is to be built is emptying nicely because the workshop is progressing well. I need to wait until outside temperatures are 10C night and day for 2 days, and then I can epoxy the workshop floor, and fully move back in permanently. That will fully free up the NC shed which isn't small. NC's scenic size is therefor dictated by the equation SSL=LSFL-OpW-FYW (do you remember Open University and bearded men in brown safari suits with pens in their top pockets and a white-board......): Size of the NC shed floor (SFL by SFW) minus room to operate the FY (OpW), minus FY board width (FYW) is the maximum size of the scenic section (SSL or SSW). I have a balancing act - make the short sides of the FY less deep = long sides of the FY get longer. How close can I put the FY edge to the wall? More thinking required. Meanwhile: I have decided to add two K22s from the future Dapol offering to replace 2 Hawksworth full brakes. They are on an auction site.......... I'm staying away from single ladies tomorrow..................Hope you are happy and healthy. * "Buffalo Girls go round the outside, round the outside...." Malcom McLaren "Buffalo Girls"
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The whole idea of Templot is for the operator to design the plan themselves, contrary to thoughts of some Templot is very easy to use these days. Usually if someone is assisting it is certainly helpful to exchange plans using the program, Most Templot club members will be more than happy to assist, but it usually this relies on exchanging "box files"* via email. * This is a system of easily transferring plans between 2 or more users, when the recipient clicks on the file it automatically both opens and prepopulates Templot. Sending a box file is nearly as easy I would say if you have not done it first, quickly have a look at the program and perhaps follow on of the tutorials, of watch the Bexhill West you tube https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f1fcaf6411aede3e&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB833GB833&q=Bexhill+west+Templot+episode&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_yPXg1M2EAxUoVkEAHaxxBR4QBSgAegQICBAC&biw=1904&bih=944&dpr=1#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:1d12fe61,vid:eagdegzAwv4,st:0 James is a very capable presenter and has a knack of making things simple
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Photos of GW chairs appear on Templot Resources, by Phil O. Here's a link to the post that contains the Bridge chairs, just scroll down to find them. https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_187.php -
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Hi Martin, that is correct, apologies for the potential confusion! The sleepers themselves are 95% the Templot .stl file sleepers in the default solid mode, the chairs scratch made and positioned using the .stl rail centrelines as a curve modifier, and the webbing was scratch made on a guess for what would be necessary. Cheers, Tom
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Hi Tom, Just to clarify for everyone that you are not using Templot 3D plug track. I think you have created your own 3D files to match a 2D Templot track plan? It's hard work trying to make sure folks don't get confused. Templot 3D plug track puts the webs at the end of the timbers, and has its own system of connector clips for modules (called "bricks" in Templot -- think Lego). As you say, it all gets lost under the ballast: cheers, Martin.
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Yeah, this is the first time in 2 years that I've been printing directly on the build plate so I hadn't paid much attention to the burn-in layers compared to the conventional layers, and even these will be buried in ballast. Webbing could be thinner too but I haven't had any breaks when pulling off the build plate and everything has stayed the correct orientation (the breaks in the image are where print #2's bottom was married to print #3's top with a flange gap fix, when print #3's switch blade pulled all the chairs up when adjusting it.) I'm printing in set modules rather than individual points to ensure everything lines up from the Templot model, and using some 0.6mm needle section to locate the prints together.
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Trying to do in 3m x 1m under bridge will be scenic break. Sidings will be flattened slightly, considering a squirty plastic printer, and templot. Will be shrunk, aiming for 4 coach platforms. Clerestory i did have diagram Somewhere, may craft cut. My parents both come ftom Cornwall, one near Helford river , one near lizard.. Storage sidings will be under a BR layout.
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
@MJI Hi Martin, If starting in FDM, you might want to look at the topics on the Templot Club forum, such as: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/3d-printer-kingroon-kp3s-pro-s1.850/ The standard profiles supplied with most FDM printers may not give the best results for timbering bases. See the above link for suggested custom settings. cheers, Martin. -
For the last 11 years or so, I have been building my OO gauge layout, Jencaster and many of you on RMWeb have followed me, supported me and gave me so much advice. I didn't operate it much, and with bad knees, difficulty accessing some of the areas on the layout, and a damaged ceiling to contend with, I decided to have a re-think. This was a couple of years ago!! During the last 2 years or so, I contemplated what to do next and seriously thought about 3mm scale and was very tempted. I then came across a couple of P4 layouts which really interested me. I joined the Scalefour Society while meandering around the Warley Show in 2022, and after attending the Missenden Modelling Weekend in Mar 2023, and seeing the difference between the track and standards of modelling, I was convinced this was the right direction for me. The thought of building my own track however daunted me and trying to build to that level of accuracy was indeed something which needed time to think about before making the final decision. I came across an article in the Society's quarterly publication about a competition designed to encourage members, non-members and novices to build a P4 layout and join the club! There is a post already on RMWeb which goes into more detail about the rules etc, so I won't repeat the information here. The main stipulation was the scenic area cannot exceed 18.83 sq ft and the track plan has to have at least 3 operational turnouts. This could be the push I needed. The hunt was then on for a suitable track plan, and many LMS stations etc were looked at until I came across Oxenholme, on the Kendal to Windermere line. It's the right area for me as I love the North West, Lake District etc, and it would be LMS of course. Oxenholme seemed to tick all of the boxes. Formerly LNWR owned, it comprised of a station, goods yard, junction, 3 signal boxes, road over bridge, engine shed, turntable and coal/water staging area. Perfect I thought, until that is I started measuring on Google maps and realizing the whole area would need something along the lines of 40 feet in 4mm to do it justice. No amount of compromising would get me to shrink that down into 18.83 sq ft!!! I then started to compartmentalize the whole track plan and worked out that the turntable, engine shed, one signal box and coaling/water staging area would fit if I trimmed off the edges a little and tapered the scenic part of the baseboard. Oxenholme(ish) was born!!!! I played around with the various maps etc and researched as much as I could via Google and Facebook as well as discussing it on the Scalefour Forum before moving ahead fully. I also purchased a point kit from C&L as I wanted to make sure I could at least build simple track without getting into all kinds of muck n muddles. I downloaded Martin Wynne's excellent Templot track design software, and using the guides, help pages, Templot forum and You-Tube, I managed to get a track plan that followed the real plan relatively closely, and would work in the space constraints. Further posts will cover the build and hope you will join me as I progress along this journey. Ian PS. See you at Missenden in a couple of weeks if you are going!!!! I will be slinging paint, thinners and bow pens around in the Painting & Lining course with Mr Geoff Haynes. I hope he has as much patience with his students as he does skill in his chosen subject! OS Map Oxenholme Engine Shed - 2.5 inch to Mile - 1912.pdf
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Somewhat mundane for a workbench post but after a month of 3D modelling and lots of sliding individual chairs along the Templot 3D models, finally threading some rail through a printed model for my first 2fs layout. I also made a compact version of the Turnout Blades Planing Jig on the right, with finger pressure and locating pins instead of nut and bolt. It also has some different height fulcrums to do Vee angles too. Some black ink to show the chair detail. My 2K printer is outdated now but even my short-sighted eyes cannot see the layer lines. It took a few iterations to get the chair grip right but i am surprised none of them broke on the 30cm piece... still need to go looser for the next sections.
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Have you tried the Templot Club, forum? They tend to be very helpful, there.
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Is there anyone out there that could draw up a track design into Templot please? Im finalising a design and really want to see if it will fit in the space I have. Thanks in advance.
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I've had a 22w version for a few months and have cut sleepers for 7mm O-MF as designed in templot. The pictures show the quality I achieved. These were cut from 3mm plywood.
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Hi Tim, I will see about reuploading some of the photos from the past on my thread. I also found a couple more of my turntable under construction: Templot is a huge boon, yes. Although its capabilities are so far beyond mine. I have managed to insert the crosssings, shift timbers and extend the check rails so I am about to embark on building that section. Iain
