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8 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thanks, that's interesting as it suggests that this photo from Ribble isn't the Trafford Park one. It looks to be brand new painted in Esso livery. Whereas your observations of the loco at Esso Trafford Park are that it was delivered new in one of the 'standard' Sentinel paint schemes and remained in that all its life.

I believe the Esso Trafford Park RR-Sentinel loco was works number 10198 of 1965 (as listed in 1EL). Earlier there had been a Fowler diesel, 4210044 of 1958.

In contrast, Shell Trafford Park had an elderly Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0DM, D615 of 1938. An ancestor of the MSC Hudswell Clarke diesels, it was still in use into the late 1960s at least.

Cheers,

Mol

 

Now that is interesting.
There was an abandoned Fowler 0-4-0 diesel dumped in a siding on Barton Dock Road.
I thought that belonged to Courtolds . Thinking about it, I wonder now, if this was the old Esso loco.
Like a fool, for some reason, I never took a photo. All I remember was the cab had side doors, not the rear entrance off a balcony. It had a separate connecting rod from the rear crank to the front wheels.
The 'loco' that 'shunted' the Kelloggs yard was a Ford tractor fitted with buffer beams. A little ironic, considering that Massey Fergusson tractors were build right next door.
Still working on the photos for uploading.
Regards,
Chris.

Edited by Sandhole
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In 1968, I have the following locos listed as working in Trafford Park (other than the MSC locos), this is from Industrial Railway Society publication 1EL. As you can see there are three Fowlers, one of which did indeed work at Courtaulds and seems to have been a similar type to that at Esso. There was another older one at Kraft Foods, which I think was previously the Southern Oil Company (edible oils) and that may or may not have been the same firm as the Southern Cotton Oil Company which is mentioned in some earlier documents.

No rail operations there now of course apart from the Metrolink. Cargill still have some of their grain delivered via the canal, 'Arklow Cliff' is tied up at their wharf right now.

image.png.bfbce137e1fd97a061e3e8418b24a62c.pngCompanyLocationNumberNameTypeManufacturerWorks #DateNotes

AEIWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DEYorkshire Engine28701962Photo in Transport Treasures of Trafford Park, with the steam loco withdrawn in 1967

AEIWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DERolls Royce Sentinel102541967Most likely a 4wDH not 0-4-0DE

Victor Blagden (Drum Manufacturers)Westinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DMHibberd39181959 

Brown & Polson (later CPC, Cargill)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0STAndrew Barclay19641929Four photos of this loco in Gordon Edgar's book

CourtauldsWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DMJohn Fowler42100541951 

EssoTrafford Wharf Road, Trafford ParkMOP No7 0-4-0DMJohn Fowler42100441958 

EssoTrafford Wharf Road, Trafford Park  4wDHRolls Royce Sentinel101981965 

Kraft FoodsWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park KRAFT0-4-0DMJohn Fowler41000091947 

Proctor & Gamble Soap WorksTrafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0FAndrew Barclay14761916 

Proctor & Gamble Soap WorksTrafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0FAndrew Barclay19381927Photo of this loco in Gordon Edgar's book and in TTofTP

Redpath Brown, EngineersAshburton Road, Trafford Park  4wDMHibberd38861958Photo of this loco in Gordon Edgar's book

Shell-Mex & BPAshburton Road, Trafford Park14 0-6-0DMHudswell ClarkeD6151938Two photos of this loco in HC diesels book

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park10 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2513 / 78101954 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park11 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2586 / 78801956 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park12 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2587 / 78811956 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park13 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2653 / 80881959 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park14 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2654 / 80891959 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park  4wDMRuston & Hornsby4028121957 

Turner Bros (Asbestos)Ashburton Road, Trafford Park  4wDMHibberd37801955 

Edward Wood, EngineersTrafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DMAndrew Barclay3901950 

Note: 'Transport Treasures of Trafford Park' shows No.16 'Sir Ernest Brearley' an 0-4-0DM ex-Army at Shell-Mex & BP in Trafford Park

Note: 'Transport Treasures of Trafford Park' shows an Avonside 0-4-0ST at Barton power station being loaded for the KWVR in 1968

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Just now, Mol_PMB said:

In 1968, I have the following locos listed as working in Trafford Park (other than the MSC locos), this is from Industrial Railway Society publication 1EL. As you can see there are three Fowlers, one of which did indeed work at Courtaulds and seems to have been a similar type to that at Esso. There was another older one at Kraft Foods, which I think was previously the Southern Oil Company (edible oils) and that may or may not have been the same firm as the Southern Cotton Oil Company which is mentioned in some earlier documents.

No rail operations there now of course apart from the Metrolink. Cargill still have some of their grain delivered via the canal, 'Arklow Cliff' is tied up at their wharf right now.

image.png.bfbce137e1fd97a061e3e8418b24a62c.pngCompanyLocationNumberNameTypeManufacturerWorks #DateNotes

AEIWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DEYorkshire Engine28701962Photo in Transport Treasures of Trafford Park, with the steam loco withdrawn in 1967

AEIWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DERolls Royce Sentinel102541967Most likely a 4wDH not 0-4-0DE

Victor Blagden (Drum Manufacturers)Westinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DMHibberd39181959 

Brown & Polson (later CPC, Cargill)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0STAndrew Barclay19641929Four photos of this loco in Gordon Edgar's book

CourtauldsWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DMJohn Fowler42100541951 

EssoTrafford Wharf Road, Trafford ParkMOP No7 0-4-0DMJohn Fowler42100441958 

EssoTrafford Wharf Road, Trafford Park  4wDHRolls Royce Sentinel101981965 

Kraft FoodsWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park KRAFT0-4-0DMJohn Fowler41000091947 

Proctor & Gamble Soap WorksTrafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0FAndrew Barclay14761916 

Proctor & Gamble Soap WorksTrafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0FAndrew Barclay19381927Photo of this loco in Gordon Edgar's book and in TTofTP

Redpath Brown, EngineersAshburton Road, Trafford Park  4wDMHibberd38861958Photo of this loco in Gordon Edgar's book

Shell-Mex & BPAshburton Road, Trafford Park14 0-6-0DMHudswell ClarkeD6151938Two photos of this loco in HC diesels book

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park10 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2513 / 78101954 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park11 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2586 / 78801956 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park12 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2587 / 78811956 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park13 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2653 / 80881959 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park14 0-4-0DMDrewry / RSH2654 / 80891959 

Taylor Bros (Steel)Trafford Park Road, Trafford Park  4wDMRuston & Hornsby4028121957 

Turner Bros (Asbestos)Ashburton Road, Trafford Park  4wDMHibberd37801955 

Edward Wood, EngineersTrafford Park Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DMAndrew Barclay3901950 

Note: 'Transport Treasures of Trafford Park' shows No.16 'Sir Ernest Brearley' an 0-4-0DM ex-Army at Shell-Mex & BP in Trafford Park

Note: 'Transport Treasures of Trafford Park' shows an Avonside 0-4-0ST at Barton power station being loaded for the KWVR in 1968

I think the Fowler was the Courtaulds loco.
Brown and Poulson's replaced the fireless loco with a Unimog ro-railer. I have no idea whether it ever pulled rail wagons, it spent most of its time hauling trailers to wharehouses.
The Taylor Bros loco that had been 'done up', was definitely the R&H loco.
The Hibberd at Turners was the regular shunter. After the rail connection was lifted, a Planet like the Branchlines kit turned up on the  remaining siding with the Hibberd.
Chris.

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On 12/01/2021 at 11:05, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

 I did manage a brake van trip round the Manchester docks area in the early 1970s.  If my memory is not letting me down that finished early because of a derailment.   The condition of the track was certainly pretty rough.

 

 

I must have been on the same tour as, among the many B&W photos I took that day, is one of the derailed BR 20T brake van which, as you say curtailed a very enjoyable trip. Small world eh?  I don't have many colour photos of the MSC system but took several of CPC's Barclay at work. Must get around to scanning the B&W's but I'm concentrating on scanning slides at the moment.

Cheers,

Ray.

01-77-29 AB1964 CPC Trafford Park 4.77.jpg

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1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Is that a teddy bear tied to the loco's smokebox handrail? Now that would be an irresistible addition in model form!

Well spotted!  Not sure whether it was a "teddy Bear" but it was a very grubby stuffed toy - maybe a pink lion? Edit: Pink Panther?

Ray.

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1 hour ago, Marshall5 said:

I must have been on the same tour as, among the many B&W photos I took that day, is one of the derailed BR 20T brake van which, as you say curtailed a very enjoyable trip. Small world eh?  I don't have many colour photos of the MSC system but took several of CPC's Barclay at work. Must get around to scanning the B&W's but I'm concentrating on scanning slides at the moment.

Cheers,

Ray.

01-77-29 AB1964 CPC Trafford Park 4.77.jpg

 

Good to see that - I didn't take so many of the locos, but I did take quite a few of the swing aqueduct and what I could get of the lever frame.  I suppose you might even be in some of them.   They would be 35mm colour slides, and are buried with several thousand other contemporary shots that I need to digitise.  Probably one of that brake too!  Don't know who ran it - the Wirral Railway Circle?

 

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8 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 Don't know who ran it - the Wirral Railway Circle?

 

Probably as we had a working relationship with the the WRC having provided steam motive power for the Birkenhead Docker railtours.

Ray.

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While I was looking for pics of the Barclay I stumbled across this Gordon Edgar picture of the Hibberd Planet at Redpath Brown in 1984 which I've not seen before. Does anyone exactly where in TP this company was located as I've not heard of it before.

 

Redpath Engineering, Trafford Park

 

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Redpath Brown was at the junction of Westinghouse Road & Praed Road.  If this link to NLS Maps works HERE it should show 1937 map & modern map side by side.

 

It was on the site where the Amazon warehouse now is.

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This is a wonderful map I found on Flickr, dated 1963. If you go to the original on Flickr you can zoom in twice and read the names of all the firms:

Manchester Ship Canal : Manchester Docks and the Barton Docks Estate - map and plan, 1963

 

I have a large (36"x18") 1930s map of the area up on my wall, but there wasn't so much in Trafford Park back then.

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On 12/01/2021 at 15:40, Mol_PMB said:

AEIWestinghouse Road, Trafford Park  0-4-0DERolls Royce Sentinel102541967Most likely a 4wDH not 0-4-0DE

This was an unusual loco, an it really was as stated - 040 DE, despite the RR works number. It seems that RR built a few locos to Yorkshire designs fairly late on. I saw this loco whilst attending a job interview at GECTraction in 1989. I didn't get the job, and hindsight says that was a good thing!

I'm sure I've seen a published picture of RR10254 somewhere, but can't recall where right now.

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41 minutes ago, seraphim said:

This was an unusual loco, an it really was as stated - 040 DE, despite the RR works number. It seems that RR built a few locos to Yorkshire designs fairly late on. I saw this loco whilst attending a job interview at GECTraction in 1989. I didn't get the job, and hindsight says that was a good thing!

I'm sure I've seen a published picture of RR10254 somewhere, but can't recall where right now.

Ah, that's really interesting. I had thought the DE was a mistake so thanks for correcting me!

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23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

This is a wonderful map I found on Flickr, dated 1963. If you go to the original on Flickr you can zoom in twice and read the names of all the firms:

Manchester Ship Canal : Manchester Docks and the Barton Docks Estate - map and plan, 1963

 

I have a large (36"x18") 1930s map of the area up on my wall, but there wasn't so much in Trafford Park back then.

 

Wow, that really is fantastic. It looks like very simIlar to an A-Z map of the area that I have from the 70s although it says that it's by different company. Hmm....

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On 13/01/2021 at 19:00, Mol_PMB said:

 

This is a wonderful map I found on Flickr, dated 1963. If you go to the original on Flickr you can zoom in twice and read the names of all the firms:

Manchester Ship Canal : Manchester Docks and the Barton Docks Estate - map and plan, 1963

 

I have a large (36"x18") 1930s map of the area up on my wall, but there wasn't so much in Trafford Park back then.

There's so much on that map - the five principal stations in Manchester, look at Ordsall and Salford as well for sidings

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What I haven't yet found in any of the maps of Trafford Park is the premises of ReesOils, who owned the wagon in the attached photo dating from the early 1960s.

I quite fancy doing a model of this wagon, I think it was originally an acid tank though I don't know whether ReesOils used it as one. It has been challenging to find out much about the firm.

 

I also attach a scan of the British Transport Commission regulations for traffic to the MSC Railway, published in 1953. Amongst other things this includes a list of consignees on the MSC Railway (i.e. all the rail-connected firms) and it details the valid routings for rail traffic to them (including which of the connections between BR and the MSC Railway they should be routed over).

 

ReesOils appears in this list with the address given as Trafford Park Road, but I cannot find it on the map. ReesOils also appeared in the RCH handbook in 1939.

I did discover that ReesOils Y.2 warehouse was destroyed in the Blitz in December 1940 in an attack which also destroyed some major cold storage warehouses and properties on Mellors Road and Mosley Road, which might indicate that they were in that area, but the bombs could equally have been much more widely scattered. However, they were clearly still trading in Trafford Park post-war.

 

Can anyone add more info on ReesOils?

 

Cheers,

Mol

 

Reesoils_TP.jpg

BTC_MSC_Traffic_Instructions.pdf

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1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Those addresses would only be offices, not where the products were handled.

Good point. The tank wagon is certainly registered to Trafford Park (it says so twice on the side) and that is where it was photographed, so it's likely that their actual refining plant was in Trafford Park.

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A couple of pics of the work recently carried out on the branch to Weaste; I think the rails have been renewed as there is now a stack of old rails nearby. Certainly the rail fastenings are new and there has been a lot of vegetation clearance work. The first photo was late 2020 and the other photos were yesterday. 'Arkonia' has been back and forth across the Irish Sea a few times in between.

Canalside Trackworks

 

Weaste Branch Maintenance

 

Weaste Branch Clearance

 

Arkonia, Weaste

 

Slightly off-topic, here is 'Pinnau' loading scrap at Irwell Park yesterday. No rails there any more, though the scrap wheel pans from Lucchini on Trafford Park are sometimes part of the load!

Pinnau, Irwell Park

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Slightly off-topic, here is 'Pinnau' loading scrap at Irwell Park yesterday. No rails there any more, though the scrap wheel pans from Lucchini on Trafford Park are sometimes part of the load!

Pinnau, Irwell Park

 

Wasn't aware ships were still coming that far up - that wharf is next to a new housing estate - buy a house with a view of the ship canal (over the piles of scrap metal).

 

Does anything dock at Cargill?

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