Manchester ship canal railway

[Lanky Atlantic]

Became interested in the MSC and its railways recently, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can for a project I intend to work on in the future, by any chance do we have a full list of preserved ex-MSC locomotives? I'm aware of a few and have seen No 32, Gothenburg, in person, but I'm curious about the others, apologies if this has been asked many times before

[Moxy]

These are the surviving ones I know of, based on the info in Don Thorpe's book

 

Steam

31 Hamburg

32 Gothenburg

67

70

 

Diesel

either 4001 Alnwick Castle or 4002 Arundel Castle (one was used as a source of spares for the other, not sure which number/name the revived one carries.)

 

Not preserved, but still in active use is DH16 Sentinel 0-4-0, currently working for Ribble Rail at Preston hauling bitumen tanks.

 

EDIT: See below, it's actually DH23 at Preston.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Moxy
Correction

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Moxy said:

These are the surviving ones I know of, based on the info in Don Thorpe's book...

 

That's a good start, but there are more!

 

Hunslet 0-6-0T 'The Lady Armaghdale' at the SVR is a former MSC loco which was sold for further industrial use and then preserved.

 

Until fairly recently, both 4001 and 4002 survived. 4002 has been active on the ELR for many years, 4001 had been plinthed and was due to be scrapped - it was stripped for spares by the ELR lads before being cut.

Of the smaller Hudswell Clarke diesels, D1 'Ashdown' is at the North Dorset Railway, I think in working order.

E1, the unique small HC diesel for the MSC Engineers is at Peak Rail, I think in working order.

 

Of the Sentinels, none of the 3000 series 0-6-0s survive.

Of the 4w Sentinels, the ex-MSC loco at Ribble Rail isn't DH16, it's DH23. Currently the least reliable of the three Sentinels there but basically in working order if not often used.

DH16 does also survive in working order at the WSR.

I am not sure if any more of the MSC 4w Sentinels survive, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do, perhaps rebuilt over the years. Many were sold to Thomas Hill and would have been re-sold to other industrial users.

 

Several items of rolling stock also survive, more than are listed in Don Thorpe's book.

 

Mol

 

[Mol_PMB]

I've been buying more MSC slides on ebay recently, here are two from 1969 which show some of the locos mentioned above:

 

32 and 70 at Mode Wheel, the MSC strategic reserve! Out of use but still in working order and soon to be sold for preservation. DH24 and DH30 in the background.

 

Preserved 67 back on home metals with a railtour. L&Y 'pug' behind, which had two spells working for CPC in Trafford Park after being preserved.

 

[woodenhead]

You know I always thought the Mode Wheel shed was on the Trafford side of the canal, it was only seeing all those gravestones in the 'strategic reserve' image that I realised it was right by Weaste Cemetery.

[woodenhead]

I'm trawling through the MSC stuff on Flickr, saw the images of Loach going under in 2017, thought it would be a gonner, but in 2020 it was back plying it's trade.  Didn't think a ship that had sunk and been under for some time could be refloated and put back into revenue service

[Mol_PMB]

A few pics of a rare move on the Weaste branch today, it's been over a year since the last train and rather longer than that since a passenger train ventured here.

Fair play, they shunted back and forth to cover both tracks so those on board could colour in their rail atlas!

 

 

 

 

[Lanky Atlantic]

thanks all for the information, I do intend to buy the book by Don Thorpe, who coincidentally I had the privilege of meeting a couple of times, so that I can learn more, does anyone happen to know the status of 4002 currently? I am aware that it's at the ELR, or at least it was, but is it still in operational condition or...? I've never seen it despite all the times I've been to the ELR, the only MSC engine I've ever seen there has been Gothenburg

[Mol_PMB]

14 hours ago, Ruston65 said:

thanks all for the information, I do intend to buy the book by Don Thorpe, who coincidentally I had the privilege of meeting a couple of times, so that I can learn more, does anyone happen to know the status of 4002 currently? I am aware that it's at the ELR, or at least it was, but is it still in operational condition or...? I've never seen it despite all the times I've been to the ELR, the only MSC engine I've ever seen there has been Gothenburg

The ELR website indicates that it's in working order, and I saw some recent photographs of it in use:

http://www.elrdiesel.info/fleet-msc4002.php

However, it's basically a heavy shunter rather than a passenger loco, so don't expect to see it hauling a train in normal service. It has never been fitted with vacuum brakes (though it now has a through pipe).

[Sandhole]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The ELR website indicates that it's in working order, and I saw some recent photographs of it in use:

http://www.elrdiesel.info/fleet-msc4002.php

However, it's basically a heavy shunter rather than a passenger loco, so don't expect to see it hauling a train in normal service. It has never been fitted with vacuum brakes (though it now has a through pipe).

I thought she was fitted to work the Barton Dock Rd 'Liner train.
A favourite of mine.
Regards,
Chris.

[Mol_PMB]

9 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

I thought she was fitted to work the Barton Dock Rd 'Liner train.
A favourite of mine.
Regards,
Chris.

True, but that was with air brakes not vacuum.

Cheers,

Mol

[Sandhole]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

True, but that was with air brakes not vacuum.

Cheers,

Mol

Of course, silly me.
Chris.

[Sandhole]

My regret was, I never got shots of the 'Liner Train.
Saw the long Kelloggs train on numerous occasions, with the Sentinel pair and a solo small Hudswell once.
Seeing it today, makes me sad that Kelloggs don't still use rail for transport.
OH yes, then there was the Ford tractor that Kelloggs used for shunting. A bit cheeky, I always thought, considering Massey Fergusson was just up the road.
Regards,
Chris.

[Mol_PMB]

12 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

My regret was, I never got shots of the 'Liner Train.
Saw the long Kelloggs train on numerous occasions, with the Sentinel pair and a solo small Hudswell once.
Seeing it today, makes me sad that Kelloggs don't still use rail for transport.
OH yes, then there was the Ford tractor that Kelloggs used for shunting. A bit cheeky, I always thought, considering Massey Fergusson was just up the road.
Regards,
Chris.

I expect the Massey Ferguson canteen responded by serving Weetabix!

[woodenhead]

36 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

My regret was, I never got shots of the 'Liner Train.
Saw the long Kelloggs train on numerous occasions, with the Sentinel pair and a solo small Hudswell once.
Seeing it today, makes me sad that Kelloggs don't still use rail for transport.
OH yes, then there was the Ford tractor that Kelloggs used for shunting. A bit cheeky, I always thought, considering Massey Fergusson was just up the road.
Regards,
Chris.

I only ever got to see the Kellogs train bounding through Mauldeth Road station with a leccy up front - usually in the AL1-AL5 range.

 

Any Liner train that involved the North East or Holyhead went past my house - I can still remember the sound of a class 40 full throttle climbing Fallowfield bank, the 47s weren't anywhere near as impressive.  North Eastern destinations brought Peaks or double headed 37s in under the cover of darkness.

[Lanky Atlantic]

9 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The ELR website indicates that it's in working order, and I saw some recent photographs of it in use:

http://www.elrdiesel.info/fleet-msc4002.php

However, it's basically a heavy shunter rather than a passenger loco, so don't expect to see it hauling a train in normal service. It has never been fitted with vacuum brakes (though it now has a through pipe).

Ah, that explains a lot, the top speed also is probably a reason why it doesn't run too often, though I could be wrong, at least it's still in use which is great, thanks so much for the information!

- Ruston

[modewheeler81]

On 21/02/2022 at 21:51, Mol_PMB said:

I just found this on Flickr but something doesn’t ring true about the caption (click on the photo for the Flickr link and original caption). 

It’s certainly a Sentinel and looks brand new, but is it an MSC one? If so, is it really going to Ellesmere Port? Or is Walton more likely? Or is it unrelated to the MSC?

Any thoughts? 

That's a walk across platform sentinel !! MSC 0 4 0 didn't have this on theirs, I think this is RR10280 going to spondon maybe, but it should be yellow.

[modewheeler81]

On 05/03/2022 at 08:03, Mol_PMB said:

That's a good start, but there are more!

 

Hunslet 0-6-0T 'The Lady Armaghdale' at the SVR is a former MSC loco which was sold for further industrial use and then preserved.

 

Until fairly recently, both 4001 and 4002 survived. 4002 has been active on the ELR for many years, 4001 had been plinthed and was due to be scrapped - it was stripped for spares by the ELR lads before being cut.

Of the smaller Hudswell Clarke diesels, D1 'Ashdown' is at the North Dorset Railway, I think in working order.

E1, the unique small HC diesel for the MSC Engineers is at Peak Rail, I think in working order.

 

Of the Sentinels, none of the 3000 series 0-6-0s survive.

Of the 4w Sentinels, the ex-MSC loco at Ribble Rail isn't DH16, it's DH23. Currently the least reliable of the three Sentinels there but basically in working order if not often used.

DH16 does also survive in working order at the WSR.

I am not sure if any more of the MSC 4w Sentinels survive, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do, perhaps rebuilt over the years. Many were sold to Thomas Hill and would have been re-sold to other industrial users.

 

Several items of rolling stock also survive, more than are listed in Don Thorpe's book.

 

Mol

 

Hello I went over to C F booth last week to enquire about DH3001 it's still used and not for sale! even at scrap value seems they got 3 sentinels in their yard not seen just informed.

[modewheeler81]

On 22/02/2022 at 08:01, Michael Edge said:

I have that photo labelled as MSC No4 on BR at Weaste - presumably on delivery as it does look brand new.

Let's see your Hudswell clarke shot please?.

[modewheeler81]

On 22/02/2022 at 00:54, Jim76 said:

How would they be returned - hauled or under their own power on the British Rail network or via the MSC's own railway? 

I remember DH3005 going under its own power from ordsall lane sidings at 1.30am in 1980's with Joe the driver from ellesmere port they had a top speed of 18mph 2 hours I make it non stop!!? A ship took 6 hrs.

[modewheeler81]

On 22/02/2022 at 20:52, Mol_PMB said:

This looks like a great day out!

 

Just a idea if rail along side of canal ship was used after it joined at Bank Quay or a route I don't really know the area?

[modewheeler81]

On 05/03/2022 at 08:58, woodenhead said:

You know I always thought the Mode Wheel shed was on the Trafford side of the canal, it was only seeing all those gravestones in the 'strategic reserve' image that I realised it was right by Weaste Cemetery.

DH24 newly painted made an appearance at TRANSPO73 expo at 6 dock DH30 was scrapped at MOD March nr Southampton I believe.

[adb968008]

The ELR had sentinel 10175 which was an ex-MSC shunter.

 

The ELR had quite a collection of MSC locos… 32, 70,  DH16, E1 and 4002.