New Layout - 'Hufeisental'

[Alan Kettlewell]

Name for the Layout

 

I'm still thinking about what I should call this layout.  Originally it was intended to be based in or near the Alps, probably in Switzerland but possibly Austria, Bavaria, and the Tyrol region generally - hence the spiral tunnels and mountainous scenery.  I posted earlier on that I bagged a huge amount of Sommerfeldt German catenary at a price too good to miss and because of that I'm now basing the layout somewhere around the northern ramps of the Alps in Germany.  I'm thinking the region to the south of Garmisch-Partenkirchen leading possibly to the lower ramps of the Zugspitze but the location will have to be fictitious, which is fine as I generally want to represent the scenery of the Alps and an opportunity to see lots of trains running from a variety of countries and in particular Germany and Austria.  It'll be on a main line for trains heading south from Munich.  

 

Looking on Google Earth throws up lots of possible place names I could adapt into my fictional world but none quite hit the spot, so I've been looking at the layout and attempting to come up with something fictional but which also describes the layout.  At some point I'll need to build my main station and I'm going to need a name, also I can't call it 'My New Layout' forever!

 

For a bit of fun then, here's a few possible fictitious German names I've translated using Google and concatenated:

 

Zwischenbergen - between mountains.  Very apt

 

Unterbergen - under mountains.  Also apt

 

Keinebenesland -  no level land.  Tongue firmly in cheek here

 

Talendenberg - Valleys End Mountain. 

 

Hufeisenberg - horseshoe mountain.  A bit 'US western' sounding in English but a good description of the shape of the layout.  The notional town in my layout world would be in the operating area in the centre of the layout, so it would be surrounded on three sides by mountain scenery

 

Hufeisental - horseshoe valley.  describes how the region will appear from the perspective of the notional town in the centre  

 

Schweizerbergweg - Swiss mountain way or road to Swiss mountains. 

 

Österreichischerbergweg - as above to Austrian mountains

 

 

Please feel free to join in - who knows I might adopt one ..

 

Cheers... Alan

[Legend]

Wow. Just come across this thread . What an impressive layout. I have been interested in Swiss and German trains ever since a coach trip to Interlaken in the Bernese Oberland back in 1978. Have visited a few times since and always fancied a layout. Unfortunately just no space to have a UK layout and a Swiss one. So I am really looking forward to see continued progress with this and update my knowledge on latest Swiss /German traction.

 

Might I ask what the grey material is you are laying the tracks on. I've been over the 10 pages to see if it was mentioned, apologies if I've missed it.

[Alan Kettlewell]

Wow. Just come across this thread . What an impressive layout. I have been interested in Swiss and German trains ever since a coach trip to Interlaken in the Bernese Oberland back in 1978. Have visited a few times since and always fancied a layout. Unfortunately just no space to have a UK layout and a Swiss one. So I am really looking forward to see continued progress with this and update my knowledge on latest Swiss /German traction.

Might I ask what the grey material is you are laying the tracks on. I've been over the 10 pages to see if it was mentioned, apologies if I've missed it.

Hi,

 

Welcome aboard, glad you've found the thread. The grey material is underlay for wooden flooring. It comes in slabs about 50 x 30 cms, 10 to a packet. It's a kind of dense foam, easy to cut and easy to paint etc. I just slap it down, hold it with a few small screws, lay my track on it then cut any parts of it away later when it comes to building scenery.

 

I use it to help reduce noise, so I don't glue it down as gluing transfers noise to the baseboards. It also provides a nice smooth surface to lay track on, nicely hiding any unevenness in the baseboards.

 

Cheers ..Alan

 

Ps - I've used this material on previous layouts. It's a more of a fibrous material than foam but is equally good for sound reduction.

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/wood-fibre-underlay-boards-7m-/7824R?kpid=7824R&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CjwKEAiA2abEBRCdx7PqqunM1CYSJABf3qvaszgR6T0OU56SjYUJTKr5rIPYyKHj2sGj-L2W6TIBYRoCEa3w_wcB

Edited January 26, 2017 by Alan Kettlewell

[Legend]

Thanks Alan . I'm suffering from baseboard droop, it happens at my age, and it looked to me that this could be a useful material to correct it . Thanks for the information .

 

Looking forward to future progress . Loved the videos you posted.

[PaulRhB]

Name for the Layout

 

Zwischenbergen - between mountains. Very apt

 

Unterbergen - under mountains. Also apt

 

Hufeisental - horseshoe valley. describes how the region will appear from the perspective of the notional town in the centre

 

 

Please feel free to join in - who knows I might adopt one ..

 

Cheers... Alan

These three are my favourites for sounding and looking right, mind you if you relied on google to condense them German speakers might be able to tweak them further

[Joseph_Pestell]

One option is to take the name of the place that you live in the UK and translate it.

[Alan Kettlewell]

Thanks Alan . I'm suffering from baseboard droop, it happens at my age, and it looked to me that this could be a useful material to correct it . Thanks for the information .

Looking forward to future progress . Loved the videos you posted.

Sorry to hear of your baseboard droop, I've suffered from that in the past (keep taking the pills). The underlay has no lateral strength at all and can easily be bent and snapped by hand so definitely no good to add any strength to your baseboards unfortunately. Baseboard droop is difficult to correct afterwards - without a rebuild you might be able to screw lengths of timber under the affected areas - again difficult if you have points motors and wiring in the way. Good luck with that - or perhaps an opportunity to start a new layout, always a pleasurable phase for me.

 

Cheers ..Alan

One option is to take the name of the place that you live in the UK and translate it.

Cheers Joseph. Although Brompton on Swale may take some translating! Lol ..

[Alan Kettlewell]

These three are my favourites for sounding and looking right, mind you if you relied on google to condense them German speakers might be able to tweak them further

Cheers Paul. My missus also likes Hufeisental - Horseshoe Valley ...hmmm

[Joseph_Pestell]

Sorry to hear of your baseboard droop, I've suffered from that in the past (keep taking the pills). The underlay has no lateral strength at all and can easily be bent and snapped by hand so definitely no good to add any strength to your baseboards unfortunately. Baseboard droop is difficult to correct afterwards - without a rebuild you might be able to screw lengths of timber under the affected areas - again difficult if you have points motors and wiring in the way. Good luck with that - or perhaps an opportunity to start a new layout, always a pleasurable phase for me.

 

Cheers ..Alan

 

Cheers Joseph. Although Brompton on Swale may take some translating! Lol ..

Besenhof am Graben (according to Google).

[brittannia]

Cheers Paul. My missus also likes Hufeisental - Horseshoe Valley ...hmmm

Always good to accept advise from the other half,

[Alan Kettlewell]

Thanks for the tips and ideas - all appreciated.

 

I've decided to choose 'Hufeisental' (Horseshoe Valley) and I've included that now in the title of the thread.

 

So, onwards - well I would be if it wasn't so damn cold out there at the moment! In these temperatures it can take two hours for my shed to get warm enough to work in.

 

Cheers ... Alan

[Vecchio]

Hi, some comment from the old Austrian.

 

Hufeisental sounds acceptable. Zwischenbergen I would rather not use - as what is between mountains is a valley - so the native people would rather say the name of that valley - what could have the name of a nearby village or a river or stream or even the name of the area. Examples: Rheintal, Donautal for rivers, Wiental acctually also a river - but most of us only know the city, Tannheimer Tal - example for an area. Liestal (Ch), example for a village.

 

What I did for my layout (10% of yours, working over a year and far less developed ....) is to look at existing names and combine parts to create a new one which sounds realistic. Explanation for the name I selected is on the first page of Donnersbachkogel.

 

From what you have now I would also accept Unterbergen - probably I would change it to Unterberg

 

As I just read about the temperature: Keep your shed heated to something like 10 degrees. this doesn't cost a lot and it will avoid condensation on metallic objects. I do this with my summerhouse, as it is free standing at the end of the garden. Always had condensation problems before - even it is 44mm wood and has double glazing and an insulated roof the temperatures drop more or less to outside values if you do not heat it during the working week.

 

Vecchio

Edited January 27, 2017 by Vecchio

[PaulRhB]

Unterberg is a real place too, surprisingly for me to know that it's on the HSB

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi Vecchio,

 

Great feedback there and good to hear from someone who knows.  You've probably seen by now that I've chosen Hufeisental for the name prior to your post.  Your input is most appreciated.

 

Cheers ... Alan

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi, some comment from the old Austrian.

 

Hufeisental sounds acceptable. Zwischenbergen I would rather not use - as what is between mountains is a valley - so the native people would rather say the name of that valley - what could have the name of a nearby village or a river or stream or even the name of the area. Examples: Rheintal, Donautal for rivers, Wiental acctually also a river - but most of us only know the city, Tannheimer Tal - example for an area. Liestal (Ch), example for a village.

 

What I did for my layout (10% of yours, working over a year and far less developed ....) is to look at existing names and combine parts to create a new one which sounds realistic. Explanation for the name I selected is on the first page of Donnersbachkogel.

 

From what you have now I would also accept Unterbergen - probably I would change it to Unterberg

 

As I just read about the temperature: Keep your shed heated to something like 10 degrees. this doesn't cost a lot and it will avoid condensation on metallic objects. I do this with my summerhouse, as it is free standing at the end of the garden. Always had condensation problems before - even it is 44mm wood and has double glazing and an insulated roof the temperatures drop more or less to outside values if you do not heat it during the working week.

 

Vecchio

 

Thanks for the tips about heating.  I have two oil filled radiators in my shed which I leave on.  In my house I have an isolation switch installed near the fuse box so I can turn the heating on or off from the house (I'm so lazy).  This is how I manage the heating, having the option to turn it on or off, such as now I'll pop it on for an hour or two even if I don't go down there today.  

 

Building a shed for a layout is interesting and could be a topic on its own, especially tricky where you live in a climate like ours here in Yorkshire, balancing heat retention in Summers (what heat?) and freezing weather in the Winters - always going to be difficult to get the insulation properties right and ward off the condensation issues. 

 

Just for interest to others if planning a shed for the layout, here is what I did:

 

When assembling my shed (which me and my son spent a great few days doing) I installed 2" of insulation in the walls and roof, lined the interior with plasterboard and painted it.  No need to have it all plastered really.  I laid a double skin floor with a 1" thick T&G flooring laid over the timber base floor then I've covered that with some cheap vinyl.  Fitted Perspex double glazing inside of the four small windows - better might have been some proper double glazing units such as become available free if you change your house windows, I did this with a previous shed.   Fitted an extractor fan for the hot days (not too many of them!) 

 

The shed base is flagstones laid on a sand & cement mix over a membrane and the shed is raised off the ground on a latticework of 2x4 tantalised beams to allow air circulation underneath.  The roof covering is double skinned with top quality felt, glued down onto black treacle (well that's what the stuff looks like) and every tack was put in through a bead of silicon to prevent water ingress.  I did consider doing the roof in those thick proper roofing tiles you can get but the cost was getting a bit steep by then.  Rain run off is handled by some cheap plastic guttering I bought from B&Q and the down pipes are angled away from the building so water doesn't run off under the base.  Before painting the exterior of the shed I bought half a dozen cheap tubes of silicon and squeezed a run of it along every joint in the T&G panelling outside - the last thing I want is rain sneaking in somewhere and soaking in to my insulation. 

 

So all in all it's quite well insulated (for a shed) and - touch wood - this has worked out very well.  There have been no signs of water ingress anywhere or any condensation, winter or summer, in fact it keeps lovely and cool on hot days.   I do the occasional visual inspection all round and keep a close watch for tears or wear in the roofing felt.  This is supposed to have a 10 year life span so I'm aware it will need re-doing at some point.  Also in Summer this year I'll re-paint the outside as the shed paint I used is stated as lasting two years.

 

Cheers ... Alan     

[Vecchio]

Thanks Alan, just to share the shed - experience:

Base is ready mix concrete on a membrane, Water and used water pipes are put in as well as a 6mm2 SWA cable. House is a Billy-oh log cabin, Dorset, 5.5x3.5m.  44mm spruce, windows and doors double glazing, roof 22mm and covered with Katepal bitumen tiles. 60mm insulation under the roof.

.

 

But: I use it just as workshop and for building, if I want to put all my modules together the shed is too small - it just fits into the garage... (Out with my wife's car...)  

 

regards  Vecchio

Edited January 27, 2017 by Vecchio

[Alan Kettlewell]

A little more progress to report.  A good friend and fellow modeller has made a great job of blowing up this photo for the back scene (cheers Dave).  Hard to believe you can get this massive poster from an A4 photo - eee in't technology marvellous!   But don't spot the join .. 

 

This scene is adjacent to the East Spiral mountain (off to the right hand side) and is intended to lead the viewers eye through a ravine and to the distant mountains, the arch bridge crossing the ravine in the foreground.  

 

It was quite difficult finding a photo such that the features, houses and so on, are not out of scale but I think it looks alright.  The back scene photo is a couple of inches behind the railway bridge which hopefully will creat a 3D effect once I've worked on the scenery to merge the foreground into the background.  A lot of work still to do just in this small(ish) area but I'm very pleased with how this looks so far.  Catenary in view is incomplete and masts are positioned for testing only to ensure they are correctly placed.  it'll all be joined up at some point but quite tricky to work out for tunnel entrances, junctions etc.  Good job I have the Sommerfeldt instruction book handy.

 

 

East Spiral mountain taking shape to the right and multiple track levels in view...

 

 

 

Various track levels in view here.  The train you can see is in the level 1 storage loops which will be hidden eventually, accessible from the rear of the layout.

 

Onwards ..

 

Cheers ... Alan

Edited February 23, 2017 by Alan Kettlewell

[brittannia]

Great background picture, makes the viaduct look part of the back scene ,I was also lucky to have a friend who provided me with a 16ft  x 3ft Alps background , certainly enhances the layout

Edited February 26, 2017 by brittannia

[Daveloco1]

Hi Alan that really does look good, just the right scale, spot on mate

Dave

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi Alan that really does look good, just the right scale, spot on mate

Dave

Thanks again for your help with the poster mate - great work!

 

Cheers ... Alan

[Alan Kettlewell]

Great background picture, makes the viaduct look part of the back scene ,I was also lucky to have a friend who proved me with a 16ft  x 3ft Alps background , certainly enhances the layout

Glad you like it. Your 16ft long scenic background sounds fantastic. I'd be keen to know the techniques involved, I did a long back scene once but it was made from a 4ft panoramic picture which I then reversed and stitched on making an 8ft long scene. I did this again making a 16ft scene - the fact that the pattern repeated was hard to see on such a big scale.

 

Cheers ... Alan

[brittannia]

Glad you like it. Your 16ft long scenic background sounds fantastic. I'd be keen to know the techniques involved, I did a long back scene once but it was made from a 4ft panoramic picture which I then reversed and stitched on making an 8ft long scene. I did this again making a 16ft scene - the fact that the pattern repeated was hard to see on such a big scale.

 

Cheers ... Alan

Hi  Alan

I will ask the chap who did  it for me, a friend of my son in law, I asked for an "Early Spring Alpine Scene ",grey threatening clouds , glacier layers in the  dark mountains, with greenery at the base is what he came up with, i provided a large print for him to work with

He also did my Grandsons Bedroom in a" pirate theme " , full wall paper length all round the bedroom.!

 

hopefully i will get some information for you

 Cheers John

Edited February 23, 2017 by brittannia

[Alan Kettlewell]

Well I finally got myself down the big shed and had a good clean up in there after a winter of neglect.  Great to see no evidence of leaking or damp anywhere after the winter weather.  I reckon I spent around 2 hours just cleaning all the trackwork - it was a bit dusty in there so I wasn't running any trains until that job was done.  Regarding track cleaning, I've just received some of those track cleaning pads that hang on the axle (from Gaugemaster) to try out to help with cleaning in the future, I'll see how that goes before deciding whether to spend more on something rather more substantial. 

 

After the cleaning up I couldn't resist a short playtime.  I wanted to see if I could devise an automatic sequence that runs a short train from the bay platform, runs all the way round the layout through all 3 levels and back to the bay platform - so it looks like it's been somewhere and returned.  It worked out fine by running 3 sequential schedules finishing with a reversing manoeuvre backing into the bay.  'Train Controller' is brilliant at this kind of thing.  Here's a link to a video I took of my Class 66 DMU (with sound) - the entire journey out and back takes around 7 minutes - I'm sure someone will jump at the chance to work that out in real time .. lol.  Remember this is all automatically run by the software - I'm the one holding shaky phone camera.

 

 

Next - must get on with some more scenery!

 

Cheers ... Alan

[brittannia]

Good to see the layout back.

[Vecchio]

Impressive size. Even when  I go scale speed I am around my layout in less than a minute....