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Andy Y

Bachmann announce Class 117 and Class 121 at Collectors Club event

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1 hour ago, Lyddrail said:

Regards the NSE flash and no wording on the side, the photo used by Bachmann (I think) of the prototype looks like the wording is missing. It is a low res pic so it is not as clear as you would want. Dapols NSE version L127 also has a flash with no wording too. The Hatton's livery diagram shows this was the plan. I don't have enough photographs to confirm these issue.

Cheers.

 

Completely happy to agree - but who doesn't like a bit of detective work? None of these pictures are mine, so thank you to all concerned.

 

Earliest is this: http://www.hondawanderer.com/55024_L401_Waltham_St_Lawrence_1989.htm - 2nd June 1989.

 

This one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwadman/39340466861/ I'm sure I saw as part of the promotional stuff at some point - 21st July 1989.

 

Next: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/15007 has gained the Thames badge - circa October 1989.

 

Then: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/1735 not quite clear enough. To my eye there is something right of the guards door, but speculation as to what - January 1990.

 

Then a bit of a gap until: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/3063 where it has the lot - 17th April 1992

 

Anyone have one to fill the gap? I think my confusion arose as the blue on the model looks closest to the darker shade in the 1992 pic, but comparing it to my Bachmann NSE 108 it is paler than that. I know the shades of NSE blue / memory / eyesight / film type conversation is a whole can of worms that we probably don't need on this thread! Long and the short is that the decoration as supplied is right though.

 

I'm off to see how many of these combinations I can put together.

Rich

 

 

 

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does anyone have a recommended source of replacement buffers for the blue/grey 121? I've concluded that the squared ovals are just wrong for that unit with that P125 "set" number.

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Cheltenham model centre dont currently make there own sound files, they normally load with biffo's 

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6 hours ago, Gopher said:

Richard

 

 how easy is it to access the speakers to replace them with  25x25x7s ?  I assume the new speakers fit in the same space and just need wires soldered to connect them.  Looking at my own model -  I want to replace the speakers with something with a bit more oomph.  To do so - it looks as if I will have to remove the passenger cabin floor.   

 

Thanks

 

Gopher 

 

its not bad, the body just unclips, the seats have to be lifted out to access the original speaker though, even so I'd say I did the whole thing in about half an hour and its the first one I've seen. Richard

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36 minutes ago, pheaton said:

Cheltenham model centre dont currently make there own sound files, they normally load with biffo's 

Yeah, and I guess biffo’s isn’t out yet as we’d have heard on here?

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3 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

does anyone have a recommended source of replacement buffers for the blue/grey 121? I've concluded that the squared ovals are just wrong for that unit with that P125 "set" number.


I have a book by Colin J Marsden, ‘Motive Power Recognition 3: DMU’S. On the front cover is a photo’ of class  that 121, P125, complete with the clipped buffers - squared ovals. So, it seems it is right to have them. The photo’ dates from about 1980. The book is dated 1982. I hope that is of help.

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

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On 29/06/2020 at 15:57, smithdom said:

I'm planning to model the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway, whose Class 117 is, I believe the one scanned for this offering. The one on the GWR is in a green livery (mostly) but has corridoor connections and head and tail lights. It seems from photos that the Bachmann 117 in green has neither whereas the blue & grey has both. Am I missing something?

https://www.gwsr.com/enthusiasts/miscellaneous/DMURailcar_1.html

To confirm your second question, the 117s did not have any lights fitted when built and only acquired them in the late 70s so both green and early blue versions should omit these. BTW you will note the picture is very much not the Bachmann model but my blue Lima based one

IMG_20200405_112322.jpg

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I visited one of my regular model shops to possibly order a network southeast one, but they said nothings been mentioned yet, but the Bachmann website says "July" Lets hope it is then

 

Thank you to everyone so far who has posted up picturesso far, I think definitley be parting with my remotored Lima one at some point soon!

 

NL

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50 minutes ago, Market65 said:


I have a book by Colin J Marsden, ‘Motive Power Recognition 3: DMU’S. On the front cover is a photo’ of class  that 121, P125, complete with the clipped buffers - squared ovals. So, it seems it is right to have them. The photo’ dates from about 1980. The book is dated 1982. I hope that is of help.

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

every photo pulled up by Flickr has round ones! My era is c1985/6 by which time it certainly had round ones...

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That explains it. Clearly by the mid eighties it had had a change of buffers. 
 

Rob.

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Is it just me or do those windscreen wipers look massively thick? I have seen elsewhere complaints that the motors are noisy in these too, just wondered what the general feeling was about how these compare with the Dapol version?

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16 hours ago, dibber25 said:

The more variations you make, the more complex the tools become - the more expensive, the more prone to failure, and the more obvious the change of slides on the finished model. If it's just a different combination of roof and side, then you might do it but if it starts involving  end corners on the same tool, it can't bee done and you have to have a complete second tool. The cost of tooling these days post-Covid and the collapse of exchange rates is truly eye-watering. (CJL)

 

I am sure that is right. But I hope that the pent up demand for 116/118s etc is noted somewhere, given that the differences are not so great in the grand scheme of things. 

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10 hours ago, aureol40012 said:

Yeah, and I guess biffo’s isn’t out yet as we’d have heard on here?

I guess it depends on what you mean by generic, with the exception of the rolls Royce engined emu's they all pretty much sound the same, only the bubble cars sound different, as they have a different exhaust setup, but 108s, 117s, 101s all have leyland 680 engines, with the same control system. The SWD file (which is on bachmanns 101) is very good nice and loud, and then you have Jamie Goodwins sounds which Richard from roads and rails has put a video of on here, the only difference is they only have 2 engine startups, and not 4 which is on the Bachmann 117, I wouldn't be surprised if that was an easy fix for them though.

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I think this will be the definitive first generation set of DMUs - can’t see anyway they would tool up at the cost of a house for something the general public will consider looks very similar. It’s 117, if you want a 116 , squint....!

 

 

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38 minutes ago, pheaton said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by generic, with the exception of the rolls Royce engined emu's they all pretty much sound the same, only the bubble cars sound different, as they have a different exhaust setup, but 108s, 117s, 101s all have leyland 680 engines, with the same control system. The SWD file (which is on bachmanns 101) is very good nice and loud, and then you have Jamie Goodwins sounds which Richard from roads and rails has put a video of on here, the only difference is they only have 2 engine startups, and not 4 which is on the Bachmann 117, I wouldn't be surprised if that was an easy fix for them though.

 

You also have the Digitrains activedrive sound for Zimo. It's very good (we have it installed in our 121 on Oldshaw).

 

Guy

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, pheaton said:

Cheltenham model centre dont currently make there own sound files, they normally load with biffo's 


The file CMC are currently loading is the Howes DMU file but with 4 engine starts.

 

They are not tied to a single supplier and can do others including Biff .

 

 

Edited by Phil Bullock
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15 hours ago, Rich Papper said:

Going slightly OT I really wish that photographer would caption his photos correctly.  He hasn't got the name of the location correct (it is Ruscombe, complete with Ruscombe church visible in the background, barely half a mile in a straight line, Waltham St Lawrence is over 2 miles away and isn't a railway location in any sense of the word).  If photographers can't get location details correct I'm sometimes left wondering about the accuracy of other detail in their caption and he has got book captions wrong in the past.

 

Regrettably this particular photographer, while taking some excellent quality photos  seems to make a habit of not getting location details right, especially in that area.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Going slightly OT I really wish that photographer would caption his photos correctly.  He hasn't got the name of the location correct (it is Ruscombe, complete with Ruscombe church visible in the background, barely half a mile in a straight line, Waltham St Lawrence is over 2 miles away and isn't a railway location in any sense of the word).  If photographers can't get location details correct I'm sometimes left wondering about the accuracy of other detail in their caption and he has got book captions wrong in the past.

 

Regrettably this particular photographer, while taking some excellent quality photos  seems to make a habit of not getting location details right, especially in that area.

Staying off topic for a further moment, I'm afraid that some (perhaps even 'many') photographers didn't care particularly about the details, their priority was the picture. For every one who logged all the details in his notebook (Casserley, Mensing etc) there was one who didn't. The great George Heiron was one of the worst - his 'captions' often just a poetic "such and such talks to the sky" (which you could see from the picture anyway, and nothing about when, where or what it was. Then, there were those who gave a location as St. Hilda's crossing or such - somewhere that's not on any railway map and with no clue what line it was on, never mind between which stations. Figuring that out was one of the challenges of being an editor. But to return to the 117s, my memories of the early 1960s are that some Pressed Steels (they weren't 117s until much later) had marker lights and lining and some didn't. The dark green became dull and drab very quickly and the satin finish on the Bachmann model is very much ex-works, new. I'm sure I've posted this before, but here's one in absolutely original condition - no lights, no lining, and the roof dome is cream - a perfect match to the station valancing. It might be white that's discoloured, of course, but it's cream, nevertheless. Doesn't make quite such an attractive proposition as the later, lined and lights, version depicted by Bachmann. And, so far, I still haven't been able to find out if Bachmann's red inner buffer beams are correct or not. (CJL)

117 at Staines.jpeg

Edited by dibber25
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20 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Staying off topic for a further moment, I'm afraid that some (perhaps even 'many') photographers didn't care particularly about the details, their priority was the picture. For every one who logged all the details in his notebook (Casserley, Mensing etc) there was one who didn't. The great George Heiron was one of the worst - his 'captions' often just a poetic "such and such talks to the sky" (which you could see from the picture anyway, and nothing about when, where or what it was. Then, there were those who gave a location as St. Hilda's crossing or such - somewhere that's not on any railway map and with no clue what line it was on, never mind between which stations. Figuring that out was one of the challenges of being an editor. But to return to the 117s, my memories of the early 1960s are that some Pressed Steels (they weren't 117s until much later) had marker lights and lining and some didn't. The dark green became dull and drab very quickly and the satin finish on the Bachmann model is very much ex-works, new. I'm sure I've posted this before, but here's one in absolutely original condition - no lights, no lining, and the roof dome is cream - a perfect match to the station valancing. It might be white that's discoloured, of course, but it's cream, nevertheless. Doesn't make quite such an attractive proposition as the later, lined and lights, version depicted by Bachmann. And, so far, I still haven't been able to find out if Bachmann's red inner buffer beams are correct or not. (CJL)

117 at Staines.jpeg

 

So I take it this uncaptioned location is Staines West? ;)

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Posted (edited)

Good attention to detail here, in that the Bubblecar has the correct AEC engine (top), while the 3-car set has a Leyland (bottom).

AEC engine.jpg

Leyland engine.jpg

Edited by Coppercap
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3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think this will be the definitive first generation set of DMUs - can’t see anyway they would tool up at the cost of a house for something the general public will consider looks very similar. It’s 117, if you want a 116 , squint....!

 

 

Squinting might get you a 118 but not a 116. And you are assuming that a lot of different tooling would be required when that probably isn't really the case - small step to a 118, slightly bigger one to a 116 because of the different layout to the middle coach.  

 

As for the 'general public' I doubt that is where the market for £300 DMU's is, it is with those who value the small prototypical differences. It is a bit like saying that manufacturers should not bother making more than, say, two types of coach in any style, a brake 2nd and a corridor 2nd. But fortunately that isn't true anymore, even different lengths of underframe being accommodated.

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3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think this will be the definitive first generation set of DMUs - can’t see anyway they would tool up at the cost of a house for something the general public will consider looks very similar. It’s 117, if you want a 116 , squint....!

 

 

I'm not sure the Class 117 is really aimed at the general public, an obsolete and uninteresting (to them) DMU at around 300 quid ! And given that Bachmann have already done several other DMU types, I remain hopeful a 116 will eventually appear.

 

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Fair enough, I get that this isn’t train set, but seeing as the glamour is really with locos....I’d expect even a lot of modellers to say “ close enough “ for their branchlines,

 

But of course, hope I’m wrong , and that the sales success of these spur future DMUs 

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