Flying Scotsman back on the mainline - 2016

[The Blue Streak]

Be nice if they paint FS and the deltic in Virgin livery so the trains all match.

 

Ed

 

Courtesy of NRM last April

[uax6]

Bang road is travelling up the down or down the up.

And is also the result if it all goes wrong....

 

Andy G

[Colin_McLeod]

So it's "wrong line working"

[phil-b259]

So it's "wrong line working"

Yup - and thats what is used in all official notices etc.

 

Lots of railwaymen will still refer to it as going 'bang road' though - just as we still refer to 'Position Light Junction Indicators' as 'Feathers'

[Coach bogie]

I have just been informed, by my dear wife, that she has arranged a visit to York signalling Centre and Virgin control Centre the day before, so I may be asking a few questions about the Sunday arrangements.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Stationmaster]

So it's "wrong line working"

 

Not necessarily because it can actually be a signalled move on a reversibly signalled line.  I presume that is really why the term came into use in the vernacular (and semi-officially as well as it happens as I have seen it in meeting notes in the past) because it is not technically working in the wrong direction (there being no wrong direction if the line is reversibly signalled) and it is not Single Line Working either.

 

In technical terms I suppose it could be called 'running in the opposite direction to that in which trains normally travel over that particular line' - which no doubts explains why someone came up with 'bang road' to save a  great big mouthful.  But subsequently it has become 'lingua franca' whether the moves happen to be signalled or dealt with under Special Instructions.

[Ken.W]

Just to clarify a few points raised here, and on another thread about the area concerned.

 

Tollerton's a logical starting point as there's crossovers between all lines there allowing easy positioning of the trains. It's approx 10 miles north of York, 4 tracks till Skelton Bridge, approx 3 miles from York where the Up Slow ends before the bridge, re-commencing after it on the opposite side of the Fasts (ie between DF and DS) till Skelton Jn where it becomes double track into York (bi-directional), so easy to get the trains back right line and into York station.

 

The area concerned for the run does not have bi-directional signaling. It'll have to be done under special arrangements.

 

It's stated that this won't have any impact on normal services. Given it's a Sunday morning I'd imagine there's ample time for the short run involved to do this before commencement of normal services. As others have already noted though, there's also a blockage at Thirsk that day (the crossovers there are in process of being renewed), so the lines will be blocked north of Tollerton anyway.

[jetmorgan]

In case it hasn't already been posted

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39447835

 

Now why didn't BBC 4 wait until this to do the onboard slow TV programme...while the SVR version is perfectly fine this would have been far more interesting.

[Barry O]

Saw FS at Skipton tonight. Very light footed setting off but little exhaust beat. The 47 on the other end of the set was being worked hard.

Baz

[Paul.Uni]

Steam Dreams have announced some more tours

 

Wed 18 Oct
Peterborough to York. Flying Scotsman on return journey.
Ely to Norwich Evening Tour. Flying Scotsman on outward journey.

Sat 21 Oct
East Anglian Morning Flyer.
Norwich to London. Flying Scotsman on outward journey.

Tue 24 Oct
Thames Valley Morning Flyer. Banbury to 'outskirts of London' (guessing Hanwell loop?). Flying Scotsman on return journey.
Trent Valley Evening Tour. Leamington Spa to Butterley. Flying Scotsman on outward journey.

Fri 27 Oct
Sheffield Morning Flyer. Derby to Sheffield.
Derby to York. Flying Scotsman on outward journey.

[newbryford]

Saw FS at Skipton tonight. Very light footed setting off but little exhaust beat. The 47 on the other end of the set was being worked hard.

Baz

 

They must have added the diesel on at the Hellifield stop. It went north and back without any oil-powered assistance. Probably for shifting the stock back to Carnforth as the train eventually terminated in Kirkstall goods loop after depositing the passengers

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Dunsignalling]

In case it hasn't already been posted

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39447835

 

Now why didn't BBC 4 wait until this to do the onboard slow TV programme...while the SVR version is perfectly fine this would have been far more interesting.

Yes, but when out on the main line, the loco will also have a traction inspector and a representative of the NRM on board so there'd be precious little room for the cameraman to move around, even if he fitted within the maximum allowable number of cab occupants. (5 IIRC).

 

John

Edited April 1, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[jetmorgan]

Yes, but when out on the main line, the loco will also have a traction inspector and a representative of the NRM on board so there'd be precious little room for the cameraman to move around, even if he fitted within the maximum allowable number of cab occupants. (5 IIRC).

 

John

I believe they use remotely controlled cameras for the Go slow programmes so they just mount the cameras in the cab, on top of the cab or tender, front buffer beam or perhaps on the smokebox lamp bracket. All you need is a couple of operators in the first carriage to move the cameras remotely on a wireless feed so no need for anyone extra in the cab.

[Butler Henderson]

Think the issue was BBC4 wanted it as part of their Christmas programmes so it had to be filmed on the SVR as a a result and as a slow program the SVR would be more suitable any way given the line speed.

[Barry O]

They must have added the diesel on at the Hellifield stop. It went north and back without any oil-powered assistance. Probably for shifting the stock back to Carnforth as the train eventually terminated in Kirkstall goods loop after depositing the passengers

 

Cheers,

Mick

Mick, lots of steam, little chuff setting away from Skipton but two wheelslips. It just doesn't sound like it's having to do any work....unlike the last time I saw it many years ago. They also managed to set off late despite the green signal.

 

It looks nice! Shame Gresleynever fitted a Stanier Hooter instead of the weedy whistle though.

 

Baz

[2750Papyrus]

I visited the Keighley and Worth Valley today for their Flying Scotsman Experience - an excellent day out, unlimited travel on the K&WVR, access to the museums and a footplate visit to the loco (in light steam).  Apparently she ran like a sewing machine yesterday.  I didn't realise before quite how little remains of the origianl 1923 build and was amused to learn that the driving wheels came from Papyrus. 

 

Very well organised, reasonably priced and numbers well regulated - well done the organisers.

 

Also greatly impressed with the restored coaches at Ingrow.  First class in the GN was quite simply the most comfortable seating of any form of transport I have experienced.  I wish current ECML stock was equally comfortable!

[ColinK]

Today I've been driving the Settle - Skipton (and Malham) bus. The main topic of conversation by the passengers was Flying Scotsman's involvement in the S&C reopening. Aparently one school stopped lessons so the pupils could watch it go past.

 

While we all know 4472s rebuild was expensive, the amount of good publicity its bringing the railways, which will surely also bring extra customers to the railways is making me think it was money well spent. It might even generate some new railway modellers too.

 

However, one chap on my bus wasn't impressed, 'I didn't bother going out too see Flying Scotsman, not worth the effort'. I asked why, 'well I used to live at Doncaster and saw it every day'.

[newbryford]

 Shame Gresleynever fitted a Stanier Hooter instead of the weedy whistle though.

 

Baz

 

That's almost as blasphemous as suggesting that Swindon engines should be painted maroon...........

 

Cheers,

Mick

p.s I agree - it is a weedy whistle.

[Zomboid]

LMS whistles are a bit pathetic and watery though. At least the ones I can remember hearing sounded like they'd filled up with water and then a bit like a teenager with a half-broken voice once they'd cleared that.

Chime whistles are where it's at (though didn't Gresley use them?)

[ColinK]

So the line will be closed to all other trains.

 

A few years ago I went to the Bebra Steam Festival. This included trains running side by side on the double track, which is signalled for bi-directional running.  On the photo below you can see the steam special on the near track, while on the other line is another special hauled by a preserved electric loco - both trains coming towards the camera.

 

 

The Germans did two things different to the Scotsman/IEOP event.

First, there are no fences (if you get run over its your fault), two policemen were around and were happy provided you kept your feet off the ballast - which everyone did.

Second, the line was not closed to other trains.  Indeed a heavy freight passed on the far line going away from the camera not long after this pic was taken.

 

But no problems at all. 

[t-b-g]

Seems to be very modern doesn't it - not a hint of anything NER or even GNR.[/quote

 

I am not so sure about that. Flying Scotsman came out of Doncaster in Feb 1923 and was heralded as the first new loco for the new LNER but when did they start building her? I don't know when it was but it only had to be in December and she was at least started in GNR days. The original design is certainly GNR.

 

But I know what you mean. What a line up it would have been with the Stirling Single, an Atlantic and perhaps one of the preserved NER locos.

[rockershovel]

So the line will be closed to all other trains.

 

A few years ago I went to the Bebra Steam Festival. This included trains running side by side on the double track, which is signalled for bi-directional running.  On the photo below you can see the steam special on the near track, while on the other line is another special hauled by a preserved electric loco - both trains coming towards the camera.

 

IMG_0760.jpg

 

The Germans did two things different to the Scotsman/IEOP event.

First, there are no fences (if you get run over its your fault), two policemen were around and were happy provided you kept your feet off the ballast - which everyone did.

Second, the line was not closed to other trains.  Indeed a heavy freight passed on the far line going away from the camera not long after this pic was taken.

 

But no problems at all.

 

That's something I've noticed, working with Europeans - there is a very different approach to Health and Safety. You don't find the constant litigation-avoidance practices and imposition of arbitrary rules and practices. Does it work? Yes, and no. Combine it with the ingrained respect for rules of any sort, and the overall sense of overall social cohesion and combined ownership (?) that you encounter in Germany, and it works quite well. It works reasonably well in France, where it seems to be a manifestation of the "Gallic shrug" and it works in the Low Countries, which are quite small countries, with strong German influences.

 

East Europeans often appear to show little or no notion of the concept (the Russian "nichevo" often applies) and the Mediterraneans are, well, about what you would expect. My experience of Italian companies might best be summed up as "inconsistent" with strict implementation of perceived key issues and gaping holes elsewhere.

[The Stationmaster]

That's something I've noticed, working with Europeans - there is a very different approach to Health and Safety. You don't find the constant litigation-avoidance practices and imposition of arbitrary rules and practices. Does it work? Yes, and no. Combine it with the ingrained respect for rules of any sort, and the overall sense of overall social cohesion and combined ownership (?) that you encounter in Germany, and it works quite well. It works reasonably well in France, where it seems to be a manifestation of the "Gallic shrug" and it works in the Low Countries, which are quite small countries, with strong German influences.

 

East Europeans often appear to show little or no notion of the concept (the Russian "nichevo" often applies) and the Mediterraneans are, well, about what you would expect. My experience of Italian companies might best be summed up as "inconsistent" with strict implementation of perceived key issues and gaping holes elsewhere.

 

In Britain 'Health & Safety' is one of the most misused and abused terms in existence.  Most things which we are told are 'down to Health & Safety' are usually nothing of the sort and are really down to avoiding litigation - frequently such action being taken by money grabbing parasites fighting cases on behalf of idiots who are incapable of putting one foot in front of the other without tripping over it or are unable to control their own children.

 

Proper industrial health & safety, in all its various facets, has its place in many processes and industries - but a lot of it is world away (in the direction of commonsense and practicality) than the vast majority of perjorative nonsense we hear about.

[hmrspaul]

The announcement by Virgin doesn't appear to have been posted. https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/media-room/#/pressreleases/four-trains-four-generations-times-confirmed-for-history-making-event-on-yorkshires-east-coast-main-line-1912317 Includes the early morning timings. I don't think I'll be there

 

Paul

[EddieB]

The announcement by Virgin doesn't appear to have been posted. https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/about/media-room/#/pressreleases/four-trains-four-generations-times-confirmed-for-history-making-event-on-yorkshires-east-coast-main-line-1912317 Includes the early morning timings. I don't think I'll be there

 

Paul

The content behind the link was removed, but if it was about the return move to York (actually departed from East Grinstead at 5:20am) here's a taster of what was on offer - passing Kensal Rise at 7:32am this morning.  Clearly an everyday occurrence as far as the travelling public are concerned - no one seemed to take the slightest notice!