rapidotrains Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Dear all, I hope you are having a wonderful Christmas with your loved ones! Leading up to the holidays I've amassed a collection of bedside reading which I am quickly ploughing through. It appears that I've caught a rather nasty disease called Acute Bus Foamer Itis. I can't put these books down. The fact that bus nomenclature seems to be on a completely different planet isn't helping much. They call buses by their chassis. You know, the part YOU CAN'T SEE. In actual fact, one Leyland Atlantean and another Leyland Atlantean can look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT because the bodies - the bits that we see, touch, smell and ride in - bear absolutely no resemblance to each other. You'd think those bits would be more important than what's hidden inside. I think Rapido is going to have to start manufacturing model buses so I can have an excuse for buying a real one. And then we'll have to start convincing people that calling a bus by the hidden bits is not a very useful system of nomenclature. Yeah, good luck with that... -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Even apart from the different bodywork and chassis combinations, different engines, etc., different gearboxes and final drive gearing also add variety. Some chassis find themselves as city buses, while other identical chassis can be luxury coaches.My local operator here in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, Ventura Bus Lines, had over 50 Leyland Tigers in the 1980s up to the noughties, All had Leyland TL11 engines and semi-auto Leyland gearboxes and all bar one had steel springs. The odd-man-out had air suspension and the ride quality was so much better than the others. Many British Tigers had other combinations of engine and gearbox, and full coach bodies, like Green LIne's TD, TDL, TL, TP and TPL classes.And that last bit introduces another aspect that sort of resembles the railways: that is, class designations used by the larger operators such as London Transport and London Country, Midland Red (BMMO) and Crosville. I understand what you mean if you refer to LT's RT, RM or RF classes, or a Crosville SRG or DLG. Yet these things are totally obscure to a layman listening in ... just as obscure as a "Derby type 2", 2HAP" or "class 73".Oh what fun we have!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2015 I think it can be cured by a trip out to the streetcar museum at Rockwood; just promise to leave the Daleks at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 25, 2015 I have managed never to become a collector of model buses. This despite being an avid London Transport bus-spotter more than 50 years ago. And even today, on my occasional visits to London, I will hop on a bus, particularly in a favourite suburb here and there, while only last week my new bride and I went from Torquay to Exeter and back on a comfortable bus with free wifi! My understanding is that the collectors' market in 1:43 scale buses has long passed its peak, so any new venture would have to offer quite novel attractions. Other scales are available, no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I forgot to say earlier that once you catch the bus bug it is very hard to shake.My own bus interest started in the late 1960s with wanting something a little different for my model railway station forecourt. Corgi and Dinky Toys Routemasters (RM class) were the only London buses available, whereas I knew that the RT type (AEC Regent III with various body makes, all made to the LT 'template', except for the 120 Cravens bodied examples) was much more numerous (I had ridden on many of them while still living in England). For single deckers, the RF (AEC Regal IV with Metropolitan Cammell semi-integral body) was the most numerous type, and again I had ridden on several country bus and Green Line examples. At the same time, temptation was there but a little out of my financial reach (I was still in high school) in the relatively new white metal kits becoming available. I started scratch building in the only material I had available at the time; card. That was not very accurate, being made up from a limited number of photographic views. I followed that with two moderately accurate card RF buses, which I still have, although in very battered condition - not bad, considering I was 13 and 15 years old when I built them and am now 60. The Merlin, on the other hand, got rebuilt twice, and still was never that good. It no longer exists.I scratchbuilt one more bus, a Brisbane City Council (BCC) Leyland Leopard with Charles Hope body. Again, not quite accurate but not too far out, either. That got destroyed in a house move, unfortunately. Going back to Jason's original observation, these 40 BCC Leyland Leopards differed in very minor details from 40 earlier AEC Reliance buses with Hope bodies. The Reliances in real life sounded very different and had a much better and softer ride than the rather bouncy Leopards. The AECs were also better on hills, of which Brisbane has plenty!A few years later, I was able to acquire an RT and an MBA/MBS (AEC Merlin) from the Cotswold range of white metal kits. I still have those two, albeit the Merlin plus a second one I bought later have been rebuilt several times because of the very soft white metal used at the time (the unsupported centres of the roofs sag over the years).I expanded the range of interest to include Southdown buses, as I used to see those at Crawley Bus Station, side by side with the more usual green London Transport RTs and RFs.Once EFE started their range, I collected and kit-bashed and repainted a good many of their buses and coaches. Then Corgi OOC, and, later still, Britbus and Creative Master Northcord entered the market for ready to run buses, and I bought more still. In the meantime, the range of kits also expanded, while manufacturers came, merged and/or went. I number one of the kit manufacturers as a friend. Many modern kits use resin for the major components rather than white metal, although I do have a few etched brass kits as well.I now have well over 400 buses; some straight out of the box, some modified, repainted, kit-built, bashed, cut into pieces, joined back in many different ways ,,, well, you get the picture! The major interests are London Transport and Southdown, but I have also diversified into several other southern area fleets, including Hants & Dorset, Wilts & Dorset, Aldershot & Dstrict, Maidstone & District, Brighton, Hove & District (later a part of Southdown), Brighton Corporation (later Brighton Buses), Royal Blue (technically supplied from Hants & Dorset, Southern National and Western National), Devon General, London Country (as a separate entity from LT from 1970 on) plus the various privatised components from London Country, including London & Country and Kentish Bus. There are others in smaller quantities, so you can see just how much it can take over!!I will look forward with interest to any model buses you do choose to produce, Jason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 25, 2015 Well Jason, your Routemaster driving experience has certainly had a profound effect on you. As well as the choice of models and configurations, British buses offer a wide variety of driving experiences. Back in the 1990s I drove Routemasters regularly in London as a sort of esoteric Saturday job; a 1950s bus with better cab ergonomics than some of today's offerings. More recently, I had the pleasure of driving the two brutes below (built in 1965 and 1959 respectively) during a special event. In case your bus knowledge is not quite up to speed yet, these machines have manual "crash" gearboxes (i.e. no synchromesh), no power steering and the cab ergonomics are virtually non-existent. That said, the satisfaction of piloting one of these in today's traffic conditions offers a fun factor that is off the scale! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 You have started something here Jason. A comprehensive model resource is here:- http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/tmb/ There is also a healthy market for resin bodied kits which cover many of the more esoteric variations in 1/76 and 1/43 scales, and 3D printed bodies in N and Z to supplement the RTR items. Currently there are partwork series in 1/43 and 1/72 (don't ask why) with some truly off the wall choices of prototypes like a Bedford Rocket. And RMWeb has its own road vehicles pages too, which cover model and real buses. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/164-road-vehicles-group/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2015 I see from the books that you're working through alphabetically, Jason AEC BMMO It'll be Bristol Commercial Vehicles next, and there you can stop, there are none better! OK, OK, I can hear people already hitting "reply", I am of course biased, but living in Bristol Omnibus territory I can perhaps be excused. Years ago we even had the privilege of seeing the "bit you can't see" as bare chassis were driven from Bristol to Lowestoft to receive their Eastern Coach Works bodies. The "cab" was a few temporary sheets of board, the driver was clad in sheepskin coat and flying helmet and off they went! If, Jason, you do progress beyond Bristol in the bus alphabet, Daimler will lead to Dennis and those little rascals, the Darts. Not that the later low floor version has these attributes, but the original step entrance leaf-sprung versions have real character. At least I fell for it, and somehow ended up part owning a pair! And if people moan about the prices of RTR stock, they should see the bills bus preservation will give you. But firing up the little Cummins and then seeing a Dart bounce eagerly along the road makes it all worth it. And if Rapido made model buses, just think of the chassis detail! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Well Jason, your Routemaster driving experience has certainly had a profound effect on you. As well as the choice of models and configurations, British buses offer a wide variety of driving experiences. Back in the 1990s I drove Routemasters regularly in London as a sort of esoteric Saturday job; a 1950s bus with better cab ergonomics than some of today's offerings. More recently, I had the pleasure of driving the two brutes below (built in 1965 and 1959 respectively) during a special event. In case your bus knowledge is not quite up to speed yet, these machines have manual "crash" gearboxes (i.e. no synchromesh), no power steering and the cab ergonomics are virtually non-existent. That said, the satisfaction of piloting one of these in today's traffic conditions offers a fun factor that is off the scale! DT15440LR.jpg I remember the summer of 1976 in Bristol, when the new rear-engined VRs couldn't cope with the heat and 'brewed-up' on all the hilly routes; the Lodeccas (like the machines in the photos) had to be brought out of retirement. This site has some photos of old buses, as well as classic commercials:- http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I see from the books that you're working through alphabetically, Jason AEC BMMO It'll be Bristol Commercial Vehicles next, and there you can stop, there are none better! And of course, as in the opening post, the bits you see - the body - were as you stated built in Lowestoft. By ECW, which has its parentage in the Eastern Counties Omnibus Company, my local in East Anglia! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Great! Can we have some moving ones then please? Save me having to do this.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Thanks everyone for the feedback and memories! I've just sent an email to Steve Richards to order his More Room on Top book about the Brum D9s. I turned to my wife last night and informed her that MacKormack's Heyday of the Classic Bus was like crack. I can't put the thing down. I was up at 0300 this morning and I was sneaking a read. My favourite thus far has to be the crazy-shaped East Yorkshire buses designed to go through a 15th-century arch... I've now ordered the three London volumes. You have to love the internet... ordering books at 11 p.m. on Christmas Eve! Would there be any interest, do you think, in bringing out a Routemaster in 1:87 or an iconic North American bus in 1:76? The former are in North America by the dozen and the latter might appeal to bus collectors if it was the right size for their collections. -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Could you do the American one in pschedelic garb, with 'Furthur' on the destination blind? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2015 If not trams, then maybe DLR trains? Not exactly buses though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Dear all, I hope you are having a wonderful Christmas with your loved ones! Leading up to the holidays I've amassed a collection of bedside reading which I am quickly ploughing through. It appears that I've caught a rather nasty disease called Acute Bus Foamer Itis. Buses.jpg I can't put these books down. The fact that bus nomenclature seems to be on a completely different planet isn't helping much. They call buses by their chassis. You know, the part YOU CAN'T SEE. In actual fact, one Leyland Atlantean and another Leyland Atlantean can look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT because the bodies - the bits that we see, touch, smell and ride in - bear absolutely no resemblance to each other. You'd think those bits would be more important than what's hidden inside. I think Rapido is going to have to start manufacturing model buses so I can have an excuse for buying a real one. And then we'll have to start convincing people that calling a bus by the hidden bits is not a very useful system of nomenclature. Yeah, good luck with that... -Jason The disease is curable. All you have to do is TRAVEL by bus in the UK. Instant cure - you'll never look at another one. DON'T drive the things under any circumstances. I caught the bug once, bought a share in one, drove it and was 'infected' for several years. I still suffer from crash gearbox syndrome if I drive anything big with a long gear stick - it manifests itself as compulsive double de-clutching. There's no known cure. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2015 Well Jason, your Routemaster driving experience has certainly had a profound effect on you. As well as the choice of models and configurations, British buses offer a wide variety of driving experiences. Back in the 1990s I drove Routemasters regularly in London as a sort of esoteric Saturday job; a 1950s bus with better cab ergonomics than some of today's offerings. More recently, I had the pleasure of driving the two brutes below (built in 1965 and 1959 respectively) during a special event. In case your bus knowledge is not quite up to speed yet, these machines have manual "crash" gearboxes (i.e. no synchromesh), no power steering and the cab ergonomics are virtually non-existent. That said, the satisfaction of piloting one of these in today's traffic conditions offers a fun factor that is off the scale! DT15440LR.jpg Somebody has to say it :nono: "Wot a lovely pair of Bristols" That has got that out the way. Having been brought up in an area where Tilling green Bristol buses were the norm any photo with an FLF and an LD together is wonderful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaym481 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I'm sure there'd be a market for moving buses, using something like the Faller or Tomytec systems. At the moment UK modellers have to kitbash for moving vehicles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I converted a couple of British models to the Faller system. I found that the cheap starter set Mercedes O.405 Dekra bus wheelbase was spot on for many 1:76 30' long buses. I cut down the height of the 'tub' with all the works and mounted a plastic Concept Models RF onto that. The track is a little narrow, and the wheels a little on the small side, but when it is on the move, one cannot really see those faults. I did move the rear wheels outwards on their axle just a little, but there is a limit to how far you can do this with the existing axles. For this conversion, I actually glued the square wheelarch mouldings to the Dekra chassis, which meant they also acted as locators for the body and kept it at the right ride height.A friend had a white metal US trolley bus (a trackless trolley, I believe they call them over there), on an exhibition layout, using live pick up from the overhead and the Faller steering mechanism, and the steering coped perfectly well with the massive weight. Buoyed by this knowledge, I decided to adapt an EFE 30' BET sytandard bus. I bought a bargain Western Welsh model to experiment with, and apart from slightly reduced battery life due to the heavier body, it worked perfectly well. Insired by this, I painted the wheel centres black (as a 'neutral' colour), then proceeded to adapt all the other similar models I had in different liveries, so I could randomly swap bodies on the one motorised chassis. For exhibition running, I can field the red LT RF and the BET single decker in any of the following liveries: Western Welsh, Southdown, Devon General, Premier Travel (Cambridge), and Maidstone & District. The adaptations included strips or blocks of plastic to locate the body on the chassis, plus a special plasticard overlay with some seat backs to hide the mechanism which sits just below the window line. I used the EFE drivers cab area and front steps.The wheelbase also matches several modern double deckers, although I have not converted any ... yet. My advice is try to stick to lightweight bodies as the batteries will suffer quicker run-down with more weight, particularly if the layout has any gradients. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I converted a couple of British models to the Faller system. I found that the cheap starter set Mercedes O.405 Dekra bus wheelbase was spot on for many 1:76 30' long buses. I cut down the height of the 'tub' with all the works and mounted a plastic Concept Models RF onto that. The track is a little narrow, and the wheels a little on the small side, but when it is on the move, one cannot really see those faults. I did move the rear wheels outwards on their axle just a little, but there is a limit to how far you can do this with the existing axles. For this conversion, I actually glued the square wheelarch mouldings to the Dekra chassis, which meant they also acted as locators for the body and kept it at the right ride height. A friend had a white metal US trolley bus (a trackless trolley, I believe they call them over there), on an exhibition layout, using live pick up from the overhead and the Faller steering mechanism, and the steering coped perfectly well with the massive weight. Buoyed by this knowledge, I decided to adapt an EFE 30' BET sytandard bus. I bought a bargain Western Welsh model to experiment with, and apart from slightly reduced battery life due to the heavier body, it worked perfectly well. Insired by this, I painted the wheel centres black (as a 'neutral' colour), then proceeded to adapt all the other similar models I had in different liveries, so I could randomly swap bodies on the one motorised chassis. For exhibition running, I can field the red LT RF and the BET single decker in any of the following liveries: Western Welsh, Southdown, Devon General, Premier Travel (Cambridge), and Maidstone & District. The adaptations included strips or blocks of plastic to locate the body on the chassis, plus a special plasticard overlay with some seat backs to hide the mechanism which sits just below the window line. I used the EFE drivers cab area and front steps. The wheelbase also matches several modern double deckers, although I have not converted any ... yet. My advice is try to stick to lightweight bodies as the batteries will suffer quicker run-down with more weight, particularly if the layout has any gradients. It's pretty easy to build your own from parts and considerably cheaper than caving up a Faller. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/172/entry-16198-more-home-brewed-faller/ The Faller truck wheel is a bit bigger than the bus wheel so looks a bit better with 4mm buses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 The biggest problem we have had here in Australia is that Faller don't seem to want to know us. Their spare parts are difficult to get and expensive when they do finally come. Exhibition running does take its toll on the vehicles, particularly on the tyres and steering mechanisms, with the arms wearing down eventually and magnets dropping off and getting lost. Speaking as a member of the Model Bus Association of Australia, we found it particularly galling as we were effectively giving free publicity to the Faller system, yet their support was very poor. It's not as if we were asking for freebies; we were quite happy to pay and to buy the spares in reasonable quantities. Doing that required a lot of time and effort on the parts of certain members, and a lot of patience waiting for the bits to arrive once a source was found.The earlier battery arrangements were also less than perfect, but later replaceable, rechargeable batteries have improved that. In spite of that, we have persevered and very much like the system and the possibilities it has opened up. Making ones own chassis certainly works but certain parts like the steering arms are difficult (but not impossible) to scratchbuild. At one stage one of the kit manufacturers was working on a brass backbone chassis that was extendable to cover any wheelbase desired, and able to twist to allow for uneven surfaces. The Association has the prototype chassis but no more were forthcoming as the manufacturer was already fully occupied with fulfilling orders for his kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2015 For those looking for a 1/87 scale Routemaster Tomey produced one in 1/86 scale that is still obtainable at a reasonable price. Quite an accurate model by the look of it only requiring a change of wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted December 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 26, 2015 Jason, Now the bus bug has bitten you maybe on your next visit to the UK you could visit the National Tramway Museum at Crich in Derbyshire and get infected by the tram/streetcar bug. Would be great to have a range of RTR trams........ please!! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Where possible please do not duplicate any of the existing OOC, EFE, Oxford etc models. Many years ago I used to be a supplier and heard comments from customers saying not another London Transport model. If you can be clever designing a model you might be able to do the unique Beverley Bar bus as the upper deck is unique. When you get to G I'm sure you'll find the Guy Wulfrunian very interesting. Trams Hm....., DCC ready (6 pin) with lights. Probably best to look at a standard 4 wheel double deck in various liveries to test the water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 My favourite thus far has to be the crazy-shaped East Yorkshire buses designed to go through a 15th-century arch... You will know you caught something when you are persuaded to buy a part share in one! Here's the very one, a 1957 AEC Regent 5, the last one the East Yorkshire Motor Service bought to go through the Beverley "North Bar" with a Gothic style roof. Seen here leaving East Park in Hull, Bridlington bound on the East Coast Run. The EYMS were always very helpful and when they organised a run through the "Bar" for their last bus in service, we were glad to turn up. Incidently, that bus was a Damiler Fleetline and it's on the left in the lineup. On the very far right is EYMS's own preserved 1956 AEC Regent 5. Lastly AEC Renown 782 passing through the "Bar" on that day. I have since given up my share in "Sputnic" and she is now owned by Lance Blackman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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