The Locomotives of Boulton's siding

[1165Valour]

On 12/08/2018 at 18:10, Killian keane said:

We might as well have a photo if our man, the late I W Boulton, here standing next to the earthly remains of Python no. 1

Hi Killian, do you still have this image somewhere? I've been looking for photos of Python for ages.

[john new]

On 06/09/2023 at 13:24, Ruston said:

The way I read it is that it did run directly on the road as he writes "only at times were any plates under the wheels", which suggests that at times they had to use plates and not that it ran on plates all the way.

Many urban roads over the years were built with smooth inlaid sections for the cart wheels to run between the bumpier cobbles or setts. Given the roughly standard width of a horse’s bum, hence cart sizes, hence the railway standard gauge evolutionary chain a possible answer is it was running mostly on such smooth stone inlays. The mention of the jacks and kerbs in that context also makes sense as it would only be slewing it a bit left or right. Then they would only need to use plates where there were not the flat stone slab strips, such strips. were weak, a slightly different gauge, pointing the wrong way, or similar, for the description quoted to make sense.
 

It was written when such roads were still common so would not require explanations.

[BlueLightning]

3 hours ago, john new said:

Given the roughly standard width of a horse’s bum, hence cart sizes, hence the railway standard gauge evolutionary chain

 

Although this has been debunked several times, (and ignores the fact that other railway gauges existed such as Brunel Gauge, and in fact the fact that pre-railway plateways didn't follow a standard gauge) the original story that spread the myth went on about "Roman War Chariots" a lot as well, which didn't exist, war chariots fell out of fashion before Rome had an empire (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot#Rome)

 

Explained much better by Gareth Dennis in a long Twitter Thread (you'll have to click though to read the whole thing)

 

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/1179351157631864835

 

It would be interesting to know the actual source of the width for the smooth inlays on those roads though.

 

Gary

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

 

Although this has been debunked several times, (and ignores the fact that other railway gauges existed such as Brunel Gauge, and in fact the fact that pre-railway plateways didn't follow a standard gauge) the original story that spread the myth went on about "Roman War Chariots" a lot as well, which didn't exist, war chariots fell out of fashion before Rome had an empire (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot#Rome)

 

Explained much better by Gareth Dennis in a long Twitter Thread (you'll have to click though to read the whole thing)

 

https://x.com/GarethDennis/status/1179351157631864835

 

It would be interesting to know the actual source of the width for the smooth inlays on those roads though.

 

Gary

 

As a retired civil engineer, I would suggest that the 'smooth strips' were more about distributing heavy wheel-loads, rather than providing a smooth surface.

 

Cambridge Gasworks had a set of 'Y points', in large section granite slabs, at the works entrance, to distribute the forces generated by loaded Sentinel steam lorries turning off Newmarket Road into the gasworks premises.

 

Granite setts and cobbles are far from ideal under heavy, turning wheel-loads - they tend to twist and crush.

 

CJI.

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

Although this has been debunked several times,

 

Oh not it hasn't

 

Oh yes it has

 

Oh no it hasn't

 

Oh yes it has

 

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.

 

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[pete_mcfarlane]

What I have seen is s 'rough' strip up the middle of the road to give the horse better grip on hills. 

 

Italian example here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@45.7648637,10.8083415,3a,75y,132.7h,80.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxjphKdITtn-fhmZE2AiOkw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DxjphKdITtn-fhmZE2AiOkw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D314.6482%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

 

(I'm assuming this is probably driven by economics, and the rough stone had to be shipped in and was more expensive, otherwise they'd have built the entire roadway out of it) 

 

2 hours ago, BlueLightning said:

.... war chariots fell out of fashion before Rome had an empire (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot#Rome)

War chariots were something that was associated with Barbarians. 

[Schooner]

9 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

strip up the middle of the road

 

In Italy I thought that was a go-faster stripe?!

[sir douglas]

this photo is from a 1937 Railway Magazine, captioned as a 1849 L&Y 2-2-2 which does look just like what was previously discussed about Welbeck

 

 

re upload of previous images from before the great photo wipe