RHDR Accident?

[royaloak]

With full-scale flashing lights and signage at the majority of crossings. This one had at least the red notice with 'STOP' next to the road- it's visible in one of the pictures. BTW, it's RAIB, part of the Office of the Rail Regulator, that now carries out accident investigations. HMRI disappeared a while ago,

I think its now called the Office of Rail and Road.

[royaloak]

What is the world of journalism coming to?

 

A fact based and well written report with no speculation or lurid dramatization.

I am not clicking on the link because it is obviously bogus, I mean 'proper' reporting, you will be expecting facts next!

 

Edit-

 

Okay I clicked on it, what an excellent, factual report, I need a pint now!

[The Stationmaster]

I have no idea on the crossing history, but I just can't see them allowing any new crossings without full barriers in recent years since that first accident, it would go against a known risk.

 

All the level crossings on the RH&DR were very thoroughly reviewed by a top flight independent company following the collision which killed Danny Martin's wife Suzanne.  Following the review the controls on all the public road crossings were renewed to the latest standards whether they needed renewal or not.  They also have in place a proper, and very comprehensive, level crossing assessment and review process and they're obviously well aware of the dangers posed by level crossings of any sort

 

The big problem on the RH&DR is not the railway, nor the level crossings as such, but the dimwit selfish idiots driving motor vehicles without a care for either road traffic signals or anybody else be they on road or rail.   Fortunately this collision killed nobody but in any event I would imagine the driver of the road vehicle - assuming he is at fault - will probably get away with a slapped wrist and be told to be a good boy if the soft non-punishments given to the two previous miscreants are any guide.  And if it wasn't a public crossing he won't even get that unless the Railway can get him under a byelaw or whatever or he gets nabbed on a H&S charge.

[PaulRhB]

I have no doubt they are doing everything they can Mike following the two awful crashes. As with AHBs it's the impatient idiots who weave round without bothering to use the phone. I've explained to many people getting arsey on crossing phones that we are protecting them from such horrendous accidents. Unfortunately on busy road crossings often when one goes so do others 'as it must be alright'.

I'm glad the driver was able to jump clear and, then no doubt in shock still, still attend to the passengers. I hope the driver gets official as well as RHDR recognition for that as they deserve it in spades.

What's mystifying is it's so often people who work with heavy vehicles themselves that do this, they have to deal with the momentum all the time but still human impatience and laziness takes over.

[Bomag]

All the level crossings on the RH&DR were very thoroughly reviewed by a top flight independent company following the collision which killed Danny Martin's wife Suzanne.  Following the review the controls on all the public road crossings were renewed to the latest standards whether they needed renewal or not.  They also have in place a proper, and very comprehensive, level crossing assessment and review process and they're obviously well aware of the dangers posed by level crossings of any sort

 

The big problem on the RH&DR is not the railway, nor the level crossings as such, but the dimwit selfish idiots driving motor vehicles without a care for either road traffic signals or anybody else be they on road or rail.   Fortunately this collision killed nobody but in any event I would imagine the driver of the road vehicle - assuming he is at fault - will probably get away with a slapped wrist and be told to be a good boy if the soft non-punishments given to the two previous miscreants are any guide.  And if it wasn't a public crossing he won't even get that unless the Railway can get him under a byelaw or whatever or he gets nabbed on a H&S charge.

 

The problem with RHDR is that the usual calculations at level crossings for SSD, visibility splays and clear visibility distances should be done from scratch (more like major/minor junctions in DMRB). Having looked at Google street-view for a few of the level crossing it looks as though they were designed by railway engineers without the help of both a competent highway engineer or traffic signs specialist - ok but could be better. However, given the visibility from a tractor God knows what was going on. Probably fine out next Friday as we are due to do a their fish and chip night.  

[Derekstuart]

It's nice to see that the daily fail has tidied up SOME of its report about this incident. The daily mail is a newspaper that, in my experience, is unparalleled in its ability to write utter nonsense.

 

According to their first draft, the steam locomotive is diesel powered and the driver travels inside the first carriage (tender I think they mean).

 

It is the dm that appears to have started the rumour that the boiler on this diesel powered "steam train" was at risk of exploding.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3783389/Passengers-injured-vintage-train-hits-tractor-derails-light-railway-driver-leap-carriage-safety.html

 

(can I PLEASE note that I do not read the dm out of choice- windows phone gives me dm news by default.)

[ejstubbs]

 

I configured upwards of 200 mobile phones for a commercial client earlier this year, and they did not come with the DM app installed out of the box.  It'll be his network provider that puts that on.  (I'd also be surprised if it can't just be de-installed in the normal way.)

[Mark Saunders]

In all towns the with level crossings the locals complain about the time the gates are down and it causes them personally delays, however if all these crossings were automatic the time the barriers are down would be much reduced!

 

However there are a small number that can not be bothered to Stop and insist that they have right of way and as such it is now mandated to have full barriers; then have them checked by a human to ensure nothing is trapped!

 

Farmers tend to have the opinion that the land on both sides of the line are there's, so there is no need to have any gates!

 

Mark Saunders

[The Stationmaster]

The problem with RHDR is that the usual calculations at level crossings for SSD, visibility splays and clear visibility distances should be done from scratch (more like major/minor junctions in DMRB). Having looked at Google street-view for a few of the level crossing it looks as though they were designed by railway engineers without the help of both a competent highway engineer or traffic signs specialist - ok but could be better. However, given the visibility from a tractor God knows what was going on. Probably fine out next Friday as we are due to do a their fish and chip night.  

 

The work was done by a team of people who knew exactly what they were doing and were fully aware of the circumstances  (I know that because I happened to work with them although I wasn't involved with that review and a lot of the work was done free of charge because the company that did it happened to use the RH&DR for training courses - on which i was the relief tutor).

 

The problem I think is threefold Firstly, as i've already said there is the not unusual problem of idiot selfish people who take no notice of road signage or other road users etc.  The second problem is that many people think of the railway as a 'toy train' and no doubt assume that trains can stop just like turning off the controller on a  Hornby set.  The third problem might be a bit more subtle - certainly in the case of a farm crossing - where because of the scale of the trains they might look to be further away than they actually are, especially to a stranger to the line.

 

Incidentally as far as signage at the crossings is concerned there are statutory requirements about the way crossings on public highways must be signed and the Railway has no choice but to comply with them on public crossings - it's a great pity that motorists can't do the same and that people have died as a consequence.

[Dr Syn]

What a terrible thing to happen to a glorious loco. George Barlow must be spinning in his grave. Glad passengers in the main are OK and respect to the driver.

[Edge]

This isn't the first time the RHDR will have had to restore a crash damaged engine. She will be repaired - as the flagship of the line they are hardly likely to keep her out of service for longer than she needs to be.

 

Let us just be thankful that there were no fatalities in this crash, and applaud the actions of the driver who appears to have saved a great deal of hurt.

[pete_mcfarlane]

It's nice to see that the daily fail has tidied up SOME of its report about this incident. The daily mail is a newspaper that, in my experience, is unparalleled in its ability to write utter nonsense.

Do 15" gauge miniature trains cause cancer or cure it? I'm sure the Daily fail will have an opinion on that one. 

[Fat Controller]

Do 15" gauge miniature trains cause cancer or cure it? I'm sure the Daily fail will have an opinion on that one. 

Surprised they haven't suggested it was a ploy by illegal immigrants to reduce house prices.

[Derekstuart]

It also has the gaurniad app on it too. I have removed them both but they still appear in the summary in the red box. Both are insidious rags and cause more problems with my blood pressure than enough.

 

I configured upwards of 200 mobile phones for a commercial client earlier this year, and they did not come with the DM app installed out of the box.  It'll be his network provider that puts that on.  (I'd also be surprised if it can't just be de-installed in the normal way.)

 

Cause it today. Cure it tomorrow.

Do 15" gauge miniature trains cause cancer or cure it? I'm sure the Daily fail will have an opinion on that one. 

 

It IS. I read it in the daily mail.

Surprised they haven't suggested it was a ploy by illegal immigrants to reduce house prices.

 

 

I don't mean to add to an off topic but the rail industry- like any other I suppose- is so distorted by the mainstream media. You cannot expect a trainee hack (this story won't have been their International headline hacks) to get everything right, but if as a 'reporter' you cannot understand the basics then how can we trust anything they write? Ever? OK, some lines do have diesels that look like steam locos- fine, easy mistake. But then it should be jolly obvious that diesels that look like steam don't tend to have boilers that blow up when over-hot/dry. Surely the difference between steam and diesel is not a specialist subject.

[Gwiwer]

I saw this news item flash up on the Australian Railpage website and thoguht - as might the driver and indeed the RH&DR management "Oh **** - not AGAIN".

 

Only this time we have no loss of life and a driver who has perhaps preserved his own and possibly that of others by jumping clear when there was no other option available and an impact unavoidable.  Kudos to the man.  The RH&DR people still work under the clouds of 2003 and 2005.  

 

It's not a line I am particularly familiar with having made only a couple of trips but even on those there was ample evidence of the boundary fence being disregarded.  Persons young and old were seen inside and crossing the tracks rather close to my approaching trains.  I felt a sense of unease at the two crossings where the fatalities occurred though they have been upgraded since.

 

Nothing, it seems, will protect an idiot from themselves.  If as we might reasonably expect the tractor driver is found at fault then at the very least a charge of endangering public safety might be brought.  And costs awarded for the repairs to locomotive and rolling stock.

[The Stationmaster]

It also has the gaurniad app on it too. I have removed them both but they still appear in the summary in the red box. Both are insidious rags and cause more problems with my blood pressure than enough.

 

Cause it today. Cure it tomorrow.

 

It IS. I read it in the daily mail.

 

 

I don't mean to add to an off topic but the rail industry- like any other I suppose- is so distorted by the mainstream media. You cannot expect a trainee hack (this story won't have been their International headline hacks) to get everything right, but if as a 'reporter' you cannot understand the basics then how can we trust anything they write? Ever? OK, some lines do have diesels that look like steam locos- fine, easy mistake. But then it should be jolly obvious that diesels that look like steam don't tend to have boilers that blow up when over-hot/dry. Surely the difference between steam and diesel is not a specialist subject.

 

OT alas - that particular 'paper seems to make a habit of employing uneducated barely literate idiots to write its web pages as they abound with simple errors, atrocious use of language and general stupidity; it's not just reports about railways which suffer from this dumbo approach but just about anything you care to name.  

 

I can but assume that they save money by using unemployed spoon whittlers instead of trained journalists - presumably because they are cheaper and because trained journalist take the time to check facts

[Derekstuart]

OT

 

Mike, I think the daily fail deliberately writes articles on line that go against the beliefs of its core market- just look at the comments "I only come on this page to correct the dm and to read the argumentative comment section."

 

As you know, each time someone clicks on a link- even if it is out of absolute disgust, you make the page count higher and thus the value of advertising space higher. Also if you ever read a printed copy, you will see that the printed stories often come out a couple of days after the internet story- with all the corrections made by readers.

I despise the dm- I used to read it once upon a time but then we all do stupid things when young.

[Reorte]

In all towns the with level crossings the locals complain about the time the gates are down and it causes them personally delays, however if all these crossings were automatic the time the barriers are down would be much reduced!

It's a valid complaint on busy lines (not that it justifies trying to cross when you shouldn't), and a perfectly reasonable argument for replacing them with a bridge even before safety issues are considered. On others where the odds are far more in favour of the barrier being up, complaints just look like typical impatience.

[Reorte]

Nothing, it seems, will protect an idiot from themselves.  If as we might reasonably expect the tractor driver is found at fault then at the very least a charge of endangering public safety might be brought.  And costs awarded for the repairs to locomotive and rolling stock.

It's a symptom of a society-wide issue IMO, one that extends far beyond railways.

[beast66606]

It's a valid complaint on busy lines (not that it justifies trying to cross when you shouldn't), and a perfectly reasonable argument for replacing them with a bridge even before safety issues are considered. On others where the odds are far more in favour of the barrier being up, complaints just look like typical impatience.

 

At my local level crossing some of the inpatient ones beep - they'll need loud horns for the bobby at Cambridge to hear them though as I pointed out to one cretin who kept on beep, beep, f...... beep.

[Bomag]

The work was done by a team of people who knew exactly what they were doing and were fully aware of the circumstances  (I know that because I happened to work with them although I wasn't involved with that review and a lot of the work was done free of charge because the company that did it happened to use the RH&DR for training courses - on which i was the relief tutor).

 

Incidentally as far as signage at the crossings is concerned there are statutory requirements about the way crossings on public highways must be signed and the Railway has no choice but to comply with them on public crossings - it's a great pity that motorists can't do the same and that people have died as a consequence.

 

I am fully aware of the difference between the legal requirements in the TSRGD and best practice/guidance in the Traffic Signs Manual and other standards (given half may day job is writing some of these). It looks as though, in a few cases, that they have applied bog standard signing layouts where the location indicates that a site specific design from first principles would be better. Having done level crossings renewals while with RCE Anglia (they had a few of them!) and on the development of some highway design side specifications, having an integrated professional certificate covering both railway and highway elements is long overdue.

 

The main problem is that while the accident rate at level crossings is a significant 'high risk' area for railways, the risk in terms of highways is roughly the same as you will find at many road junctions. The solution, if possible, is to make the incorrect use of level crossings more of a buggeration than using them correctly.

[Talltim]

 

The main problem is that while the accident rate at level crossings is a significant 'high risk' area for railways, the risk in terms of highways is roughly the same as you will find at many road junctions.

A very good point that I had not considered before

[roythebus]

To comment on PhilB's earlier post, I remember being at the trial of the former magistrate who was charged with dangerous driving and the case was dismissed. I posted an item on it here a couple of years ago. Had the PS gone for careless driving instead of dangerous driving, they would have gained a conviction.

 

On the lighter side, I'm just waiting for one of the satirical news sites like Southend News Network to mention something like "miniature railway installs speed humps in track to stop trains speeding" or "new safety device for steam drivers- the RHDR ejector seat works".  If you're a railwayman, you'll probably appreciate the railway humour there.

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Had the PS gone for carless driving

 

Had this been a case of carless driving the incident might never have occurred

[Talltim]

I've seen a meme involving Henry the green engine doing the rounds