First steps in scratchbuilding

[Pete 75C]

Thread title altered as it made even me cringe...

 

...or "101 things to do with a scalpel" or "Scratchbuilding for Dummies" or "Here's one I messed up earlier". Other naff thread titles are available.

 

So, why this thread? Well, if I'm honest, it annoys me a little when (a very few) RMWeb members verbally and rudely turn their virtual noses up at folk who populate their layouts with RTP buildings. "You're not a proper modeller if all you can do is open a box" being a typical comment. Me? I don't much care if someone's spent 200 hours tiling a roof with individually cut and weathered paper slates or if someone's just hyper-delighted with their latest Skaledale building. The hobby known as railway modelling has a myriad of different interests and skill levels and that's exactly as it should be. Everyone is a learner when first starting out and sometimes harsh comment can cause people to give up there and then. I happen to possess a skin about three inches thick but I do sympathise with those that take criticism to heart.

 

So, up until recently, I've been one of those skill-limited modellers quite content to buy a resin-made ready-painted building and with perhaps a little weathering, plonk it in place and declare "job done". Out of nowhere that all changed a few weeks ago...

 

The older I get, I find myself enjoying the research side of railway modelling as much (if not more) than the actual "construction". I found myself trying to build a small end-to-end layout set far from these shores. I wanted the trackplan and the "feel" of the layout to be based on an actual place, but I wanted the freedom to "freelance" everything to fit the available space and mainly not to have to try and make an exact copy of real life, as I knew my skills in that department would be... erm... wanting, shall we say. The ideal layout to be populated with kit-built and resin buildings. Or so I thought.

 

There was nothing (and I mean NOTHING) readily available that was suitable. I tried converting a kit of a cement factory into a station building. That went in the bin as no matter what I did, it still looked like a cement factory!

 

Then it occurred to me... the few buildings I needed were relatively modern, almost totally lacking in any character, and so how hard could it be to scratchbuild them? Well, quite hard, actually, for a novice like me. RMWeb to the rescue, and armed with a bucketful of good advice, I'm up to building number three and it's a complete revelation. I'm getting IMMENSE satisfaction from creating a bespoke building to fit an odd space. A big dollop of that satisfaction comes from knowing that it's unique and won't be seen anywhere else.

 

To date, we have building number 1... a very simple box-like windowless relay room.

 

 

Building number 2... the replacement for the binned cement factory. This is actually loosely based on the existing building at Benidorm station on the metre gauge line between Alicante and Denia.

 

 

Building number 3 is a typical Spanish 3 storey apartment block. Retail on ground floor, residential above. An odd shape to fit a corner. Work in progress, 75% complete, so bear with me on this one.

 

I really think I may have discovered a new (to me) aspect to this hobby that I thoroughly enjoy. Mistakes to be made and disasters to be swept under the carpet, no doubt.

 

Now, I've read much on the use of foam board, laser-cutting for brickwork and details etc etc etc and have turned my back on it, preferring to use what I happen to have lying around. It might be 2mm MDF offcuts, leftover Lego bricks as corner stiffeners or even whole building shells. In other words, I'm going to muddle along and make lots of mistakes. I'll update the thread from time to time with any progress as it may prove useful for anyone that wants to scratchbuild but, like me, doesn't really know where to start. I can also ask questions and I'm 100% sure that someone will know the answer!

[HillsideDepot]

Excellent Pete - not just the buildings, but that you are enjoying scratch building them. 

 

The numerous resin RTP buildings are great, and when one really fits the location you have in mind then why not, but they don't give the satisfaction of building something. However, for many they certainly open up possibilities which didn't exist a few years back. There are some wonderful designs in the various ranges, but when I look at the price of them, and at my piles of Wills Scenic Sheets (neatly filed by type in old ticket boxes) I see them more as ideas than solutions.

 

But there is nowhere better than the real world for inspiration! I've built several buildings "based on" real ones. I'd never claim that they are scale replicas, but if someone who knows the original can recognise it in miniature, I'm more than happy. The problem I have in imagining buildings is that I make them square and straight (well, vaguely so, given my construction skills!) whereas real buildings are full of odd angles, they fit in between other buildings, and they sit on uneven ground. My imagination can't "do" that. But my camera can, and hopefully I can scratch build based on those images. 

 

There are a number of interesting (OK, boring, mundane, everyday) buildings in my home town I'm keen to replicate. I'm not sure how or when I'll build them, especially as the notional sketch to bring them all together gives a board about 5 foot square, but when one of those I've photographed now lies in a million pieces under the demolition firm's bulldozer I certainly want to find a way of modelling it. And as I am recreating real buildings in a combination which doesn't really exist the ability to mirror image a digital picture is invaluable to get things to come together naturally. One day these buildings full of childhood memories will reappear, but at 1/76th of their original size.

 

I'm currently working on a little shunting plank layout, as a Christmas project, based on a real location, and having buildings there to copy is almost as easy as having them RTP. Sure, my modelling bench has plenty of mistakes littering it, pieces cut the wrong shape and size which might subsequently be re-cut for a smaller panel, or used inside as bracing, indeed the operator side of the building I can see from here now has an obvious "bodge", but so what, no one else has a building like that and the thrill of posting a picture of the "good" side on my Facebook page and several friends saying "I know where that is!" it's a wonderful feeling.

 

If anyone is reading this wondering, thinking about having a try, go on, take the plunge, it's really rather fun!

 

I hope your thread encourages others, Pete. 

[Stubby47]

Scratchbuilding ? Nah, it's over rated.

 

 

Welcome to the other dark side

[Guest]

If anyone is reading this wondering, thinking about having a try, go on, take the plunge, it's really rather fun!

 

Summed up better in one line than I managed using several paragraphs!

[Guest]

Welcome to the other dark side

 

Thanks Stubby. It was your advice and encouragement on the layout thread that got me started. It is certainly rather addictive but I'm still an "urban decay" fan so don't expect any character cottages! That said, I'm still somewhat lazy at heart and would have no objection to using RTP if it fitted the location. It just doesn't in this case.

[hayfield]

Pete

 

A great idea and well worth showing, as you say nothing wrong with buying something ready made and using it. On the other hand its so enjoyable making something yourself and being rightly pleased and or proud of your efforts. Even more so when you use everyday items and find a new use from them

 

Nothing elitist at all, just plain fun from your chosen hobby

 

By the way your modelling is excellent, and well done for doing something a bit different  

[allan downes]

Well Pete, if that's your first attempt at scratch building I would say you're a force to be reckoned with and us so called experts ought to look out !

 

Excellent work. Can't wait to see more.

 

Allan

[Guest]

Thanks for the kind comments. I do hope this will become something of an information exchange.

When I started, I had a good look through RMWeb for how to do certain things. Simple, basic things that most of you already know like "how do you join two pieces of 1.5mm styrene to make a perfect right angle?"... I quickly discovered there's no right or wrong answer. For me, the solution was to make a jig using 4x2 Lego bricks, coat one edge of the styrene with Revell Contacta polystyrene cement and push together against the jig. I don't know about other polystyrene cements, but this Revell one does not like the waxy finish of Lego bricks, so there's little chance of your work sticking to the jig unless you leave it too long. A quick cleanup with fine wet n dry, then a little plastic putty if needed. That made an almost invisible joint that was good enough for me. Running a little liquid poly along the inside of the joint helped as well. I genuinely didn't know how to create that joint and I'm certain there's plenty of other ways of doing it. Had it not worked, I'd have tried something else. One other thing I wasn't aware of is when using thicker styrene, just score a couple of times then snap. In ignorance, I'd been trying to slice my way through the whole thing.

Also, a couple of days ago, I discovered Deluxe Magic's "Glue 'n' Glaze". Not for making windows, but for bonding clear styrene without getting frustrated at the stray glue marks which I usually suffer. They say a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but at the moment, I'm soaking it all up like a sponge. Perhaps the biggest personal leap forward was to buy a decent Swann Morton scalpel and a selection of Number 10A and Number 11 blades, all cheap as chips on ebay.

I have one of those big flexible builders buckets from Jewson in the model room. All the little offcuts and failed experiments end up in there. I'd quite like to reach the stage where I'm throwing less and less away. I think getting there will be a slow, but fun journey.

[allan downes]

Pete, I've been modelling for over 40 years now and still don't know all the answers, still can't solder and have a bigger reject bin than you have !

 

My very first building was a disaster and something oft repeated in all my years as a so called professional model maker and a title that's usually more impressive than the results ! 

 

Cheers.

 

Allan

[davetheroad]

Your idea of using lego type bricks to form the inside of buildings is a good one, nice accurate right angles and vertical walls. I intend to use mostly card and scalescene papers for the outsides. As my inspiration is Penrith station which is Victorian gothic I have to wrestle with mullioned windows - aargh! so a lot of compromises will be needed, With my bad eyes modelling for effect is the order of the day.

 

I look forward to following your topic.

[Guest]

I have to wrestle with mullioned windows - aargh! so a lot of compromises will be needed, With my bad eyes modelling for effect is the order of the day.

 

I think that's a very good point. I am always hugely impressed when I see folk on RMWeb going the extra mile to model the interiors of buildings, for example. Offices spring to mind, complete with tables, chairs, filing cabinets and computers. I then step back and ask myself "how much of it can actually be seen when viewed from a certain distance?"... Modelling the interior of a signal box, I can understand, as the signalman effectively inhabits a goldfish bowl with glazing all around. Not modelling the interior would almost be a sin.

As a self-confessed "lazy" modeller,  I made only a half-hearted attempt at something of an interior for the mini supermarket below the apartments. Apologies for the poor quality pics taken in artificial light. Through the glazing, you can just see the lockers common to Spanish supermarkets, a tiled floor and the weekly deals board inside the main window, just there to give a little illusion of depth. The actual supermarket aisles are assumed to be further back or round a corner.

The first picture, below, is cruelly enlarged beyond what can normally be seen. I then step back and look at the scene from normal viewing distance (especially after adding a palm tree and streetlight) and it all disappears! For that reason, the apartments above the supermarket won't be getting detailed interiors, as much of the scene would be hidden by the overhanging balcony or roof above. Inside the patio doors leading off the balconies, I'll whitewash the walls and that will be it, no furniture or pictures on the wall. I may grow into fine details like that, but for now it's enough of a challenge just getting the structure to look partway believable!

In the case of your eventual mullioned windows, "modelling for overall effect" shouln't be seen as a compromise at all. Personally, I'd see it as the only possible solution. Good luck with the project, Dave.

 

[Stubby47]

I think you've captured that scene really well. It's all the little details that make up the whole that convinces the brain - the sharp graphics, the two-tone paving, and yes the posters in the window. On their own, each element is fairly nondescript, but as a cohesive whole are exquisite.

[hayfield]

Pete

 

Top marks for workmanship, looking very good

[allan downes]

Hi Pete.

 

You make a good point about building interiors not being noticed from general viewing distances and I very rarely include interiors myself  even in O Gauge and Gauge 1 where my ego has included a few examples and please tell me you don't notice the lack of them !

 

Cheers.

 

Allan

 

[ess1uk]

More great work Pete

[Guest]

MY PICTURES 2511.jpgMY PICTURES 2513.jpgMY PICTURES 2514.jpgMY PICTURES 2621.jpg

 

That is some mighty impressive work. Can I ask what scale? And is that a dressmaking pin atop The Playhouse? If so, that very much appeals to my "use what you have in the bits box" ethos. I am rather glad my layouts always seem to go for more modern mundane buildings (read "easier") as I couldn't begin to imagine how to do all that decorative stonework.

[allan downes]

Hi Pete.

 

The high tech finial is a map pin and the scale is 7mm to the foot.

 

Cheers.

 

Allan.

[Guest]

The retail/apartment block is now finished bar the roof and "bedding in". I've taken the opportunity to add a 12v LED to the supermarket, which isn't hugely noticeable in the photos. It looks a lot better at dusk. I need to use Google Earth and take a look at the rooftops of some flat-roof buildings in the area as I haven't a clue what detail to add. The roof will obviously need a parapet of some sort and perhaps a water tank and some clutter? Need to look into that.

Stubby's advice to add a handrail to the balconies as a nice detail worked a treat. The apartments have bare magnolia coloured walls and an attempt at a terracotta tiled floor but there is little to be seen through the windows, especially as I've added vertical blinds to draw attention away from the lack of interior detail. The balconies themselves are also tiled, but it's a detail that's pretty much lost because of the roof overhang. I know it's there though. All in all, I'm quite pleased with it but there are things I would definitely do differently next time. The "next time" is an altogether larger 4 or 5 storey apartment block on the opposite side of the railway line and thus much closer to the baseboard edge. This will be the "view-blocker" to disguise the track exit. Although taller, I have a smaller footprint on which to sit the building, so I need to give that some serious thought. I think this one will be clad in a modern reddish/brown brick as a contrast to the mainly concrete construction of the first one. I've recently discovered Wills flexible brick sheets. I think they're designed for tunnel linings? Much easier to cut than traditional Wills sheets and although no doubt slightly overscale, should look ok.

 

 

A close up of the station building. I wanted to represent the slightly rough render common to Spanish buildings and didn't have a clue how to go about it. Eventually, I ground some ballast (the kind that's made from fruit seeds) in a pestle and mortar and sprinkled the fine chippings onto wet paint. Everything got a good rub-down with 60-grit sandpaper when dry. This was repeated a couple of times until it looked passable. The picture below reminds me that the roof still needs to be fixed in place!

 

 

To sum it all up... with the mistakes I'm making combined with the advice offered on RMWeb, I'm hoping that the further I go, the better my buildings will look. I don't really get a kick out of tracklaying or electrics. I also get bored quite quickly running trains! At the moment, this is something that I'm enjoying very much.

 

Echoing advice further up this page, do give it a go. Expect disasters but persevere. Invest in quality modelmaking tools... scalpel, craft guillotine for styrene strip etc etc. They're not expensive but make life easier. Most importantly, compared to the cost of resin buildings, these scratchbuilt structures are incredibly cheap, especially if you have a stack of plastic sheet/strip etc lying around. It never ceases to amaze me just what can be used to make the details... scrap lengths of sprue, offcuts of electrical wire etc etc. If I get back into modelling UK prototype, maybe I should build a "Poundland", as nothing I've used so far has cost much!

[MikeTrice]

Personally I think they are looking pretty good already. You have certainly captured the character.

[grahame]

 

So, why this thread? Well, if I'm honest, it annoys me a little when (a very few) RMWeb members verbally and rudely turn their virtual noses up at folk who populate their layouts with RTP buildings. "You're not a proper modeller if all you can do is open a box" being a typical comment. Me? I don't much care if someone's spent 200 hours tiling a roof with individually cut and weathered paper slates or if someone's just hyper-delighted with their latest Skaledale building. The hobby known as railway modelling has a myriad of different interests and skill levels and that's exactly as it should be. Everyone is a learner when first starting out and sometimes harsh comment can cause people to give up there and then. I happen to possess a skin about three inches thick but I do sympathise with those that take criticism to heart.

 

I guess that people are entitled to their opinions. There are no rights and wrongs in such matters of modelling, so if some turn their noses up it's not worth getting annoyed or concerned about it. Personally I'm not enamoured with an excess of RTP structures and Metcalfe kits (simply assembled as designed) on layouts as the me-too repetition get rather tedious and rarely do they convey an appropriate atmosphere and character for the layout's intended period and location. I appreciate that some layouts might be fanciful and not meant to have a period/location but that makes it less interesting to me.

 

Therefore it's very nice that you've embraced some constructional modelling (scratch-building?) and it's impressive with what you've achieved as a first attempt. They certainly 'fit' the location and layout theme (which is what RTP often fails to do) and that makes the viewing so much more enjoyable. Bring on some more photos of examples.

 

G.

[allan downes]

Becoming an "All round modeler" would be quite an achievement   where you would need to be everything from a layout planner to engineer.

 

So, since most of us aren't likely to become that then we tend to specialize in an area that we're good at and rely on the RTP market to take care of everything else. 

 

My 'skills' are very limited to buildings and that's about it and if it wasn't for ready to lay track and ready to run loco's I would probably have stuck with fishing for a hobby even though I never caught anything !

 

So, plonk away as much as you like for that's the way most layouts get built.

 

Cheers.

 

Allan 

[KNP]

I agree with all the comments.

Why not use whatever is to hand whether that be ready made or scratch built, mix and match is what I say and it's what I have done for years.

With regard to interiors I have never done them as if you look in real life windows appear black, only the curtains/blinds can normally be seen and it is not until a light is put on the interior becomes visible.

All the buildings in the station picture are scratch built with no interiors which I think looks about right when viewed from say 6ft, (1.8m) this will roughly equate to looking at a real building from 430ft (130m).

Next time the sun's out!!!! and it's dry!!!! and warm!!!! (so that could be a while then?) take a look at a building from that distance and see what you don't see with regard to both the interior and external details.

 

With the next picture it's of a farm building which I a modified from the Skaledale range by repainting so this makes it look different and makes you think where did this come from, so why not take a ready made one and tweak it which makes it not only look different but personalises it to your layout. Incidentally on the left hand side to the rear is the scratch built creamery which works very well with this picture. 

 

The last one is straight out of a Skaledale box but standing next to a scratch built garage.

 

So I say use whatever fits your layout and let the imagination take over.

 

Kevin

[Guest]

I certainly agree with Kevin, above. I would have no hesitation using either a kit or resin structure but I no longer see this as either the lazy option or the only option. For me, it would absolutely HAVE to look believable in its surroundings and that is where the problems started. Nothing I could find looked like it was meant to be there. Downside of trying to model an obscure Spanish prototype, maybe...

 

I have a question regarding the next building and it's perhaps a question with no right answer, so opinions more than welcome!

The apartment block closest to the baseboard edge needs to be taller than the one I've just built. It will be a view blocker to help disguise the track exit in the absence of a traditional road bridge or tunnel mouth. Looking at the area I've marked out in white with a red border (below), the footprint is actually smaller than the previous building. That will mean there's little room to model a full balcony, so I've hit upon the idea of modelling corner balconies facing the road and railway above a covered walkway, pretty much like the image below that I've grabbed from Google Streetview.

As the road does not run at 90 degrees to the front baseboard edge, and I will have an odd angle on the building to disguise, what would be the best way to model the edge of the building when the layout is viewed directly from the front? I hope that makes sense? Do I cut a new fascia from MDF to the profile of the building, or should I just cut an end piece from plastic sheet and perhaps leave it in grey primer. I'd be interested to know what people have done when faced with a similar problem.

Apologies if I haven't got the question across very well.

 

[davetheroad]

I would add some window detail to the end wall something like the left hand side of your building in the image. A plain grey wall would look awful IMO.

 

Can I ask a question about what is behind windows How much space do I need behind the glazing if I intend to paint the room black. Or even have a black wall immediately behind the window?

[KNP]

Pete

 

I would model the building as per the dimensions and photo shown then literally slice through the building in line with the profile board.

I use 2mm MDF for my profile boards which I paint black which would include any edging the buildings as well.

The other thing I do is add a vertical profile board (you can just see the edge in the picture), normally 100mm wide which helps conceal the board exit plus acts as to frame the layout in conjunction with the main baseboard profile.

When I am happy that the building and yard is finished it will be fixed in place and the gap filled and painted.

 

In the past I have built buildings into the edge profiles which is how I would deal with this situation.

 

Hope this helps

 

Kevin