For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Rugd1022]

Some recent finds...

 

 

[ColinK]

 Not old, but perhaps of interest.  Last Saturday I was driving the 1745 Skipton to Lancaster service.  Driving conditions were awful, dark, heavy rain, gusty winds and floods.  At Ingleton at couple of passengers were getting off and asked if I would like to park the bus up for the night and sleep in their spare room.  Much appreciated and very tempting, but I had passengers who wanted to go further.  I only just made it back to depot, got through one flood then came across another which looked to too deep. Luckily a local came along in a 4x4 and showed me the safe way to get through.

[Unicorn1]

4 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Some recent finds...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rugd1022

 

That one of RM7 is one of mine - taken on NYE 1978 at Haven Green, Ealing. That's my trusty Hillman Imp parked across the road.

Posted on my Flickr account. I could have put it up in this thread myself, only all my scans of old slides went west when my hard drive packed up!

Les

[leopardml2341]

I promised this pic some time ago:

 

 

FRM1 and RM1 together at Crich - 1993 IIRC.

[Johann Marsbar]

Some preserved American ones from a museum in Hershey, PA.....

 

 

 

 

[Metr0Land]

How about a British bus at an American car museum?  RT2376 at Gilmore Car Museum, West Michigan July 2003

 

 

[Oldddudders]

On 21/02/2020 at 16:49, Unicorn1 said:

That one of RM7 is one of mine - taken on NYE 1978 at Haven Green, Ealing.

I guessed it was Ealing, and concluded that about '78 was the likely date, from it being at Norbiton then. In the early '60s, the 65 ran to Leatherhead, so was useful for a Dorking (actually Betchworth in those days) boy to get onto the Red Rover network. I have someone's postcard print of an RT on a 65 leaving Kingston on the mantlepiece. 

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, Metr0Land said:

How about a British bus at an American car museum?  RT2376 at Gilmore Car Museum, West Michigan July 2003

 

 

 

At least that example is in better 'nick than the one at Seashore Trolley Museum in 2004......

 

Think there was another one there in worse condition as well.

Both had gone by the time I revisited the Museum in 2013, though I did find a Paris single decker hiding in one of the sheds amongst an interesting collection of derelict pre 1940 US buses . Just how many members they have who are interested in rubber tyred transport is another matter....

Edited February 29, 2020 by Johann Marsbar

[Metr0Land]

53 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

At least that example is in better 'nick than the one at Seashore Trolley Museum in 2004......

 

Think there was another one there in worse condition as well.

Both had gone by the time I revisited the Museum in 2013, though I did find a Paris single decker hiding in one of the sheds amongst an interesting collection of derelict pre 1940 US buses . Just how many members they have who are interested in rubber tyred transport is another matter....

 

I saw that RTL in Oct 2008 in very poor condition - didn't see any other London buses.  However, there was the London Feltham tram in the back of the shed in poor condition (though having said that didn't seem much different than 1991 when I was previously there).  Also a Glasgow Cunarder tram in somewhat better condition - both rather difficult to phot.

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

14 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

I saw that RTL in Oct 2008 in very poor condition - didn't see any other London buses.  However, there was the London Feltham tram in the back of the shed in poor condition (though having said that didn't seem much different than 1991 when I was previously there).  Also a Glasgow Cunarder tram in somewhat better condition - both rather difficult to phot.

 

 

There is also the Liverpool car in "last tram" livery

 

 

plus a Blackpool Standard (end visible here..) , which was being worked on in 2013 with a view to putting it back in service. The UK wheel profiles are the big problem in the US.

 

 

L'autobus Parisienne.....

 

 

And one of the domestic vehicles, which has seen better days....

 

 

I've seen vehicles in worse condition than the latter one restored to running order here in the UK, but Seashore have so much sitting in their various "barns" that most of them will never be restored, unfortunately.

 

Normally the storage areas seem to be off-limits, but I've managed to arrange my two visits there on the same weekends in September as their "Members Days" (not that I'm a member) and you seem to get free run of the place on those occasions, plus they put some trams/subway cars out in service that don't normally get used. Managed a ride on the Lehigh Valley "Liberty Bell Limited" car on my 2013 visit!

The less said about the electrical state of the NYC subway car on the 2004 visit the better.........

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Johann Marsbar

[Metr0Land]

I must have missed the Liverpool one but the pic of the Blackpool one reminds me that there's a Blackpool boat car 226 at the Western Rail Museum, Suisun City, California which I saw in March 2001.

 

 

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

13 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

I must have missed the Liverpool one but the pic of the Blackpool one reminds me that there's a Blackpool boat car 226 at the Western Rail Museum, Suisun City, California which I saw in March 2001.

 

 

Wandering a bit off-topic here, but the Oregon Electric museum at the Antique Powerland site in Brooks, OR have another Blackpool Standard that is now back in operational condition..

 

 

National Capitol Trolley Museum in Wheaton, MD, have a Boat...

 

 

And San Francisco have a pair of Boats that get used in service......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I guessed it was Ealing, and concluded that about '78 was the likely date, from it being at Norbiton then. In the early '60s, the 65 ran to Leatherhead, so was useful for a Dorking (actually Betchworth in those days) boy to get onto the Red Rover network. I have someone's postcard print of an RT on a 65 leaving Kingston on the mantlepiece. 

That change was made on 30/11/68 when the 71 was both extended from Kingston to Leatherhead and cut back from Richmond to Kingston on Sundays.  For a time Ham Estate had no Sunday bus service as a result.  The weekend service on the 65 had been the 65A at that time and which was renumbered to 65 as there was, after the changes, no difference between the new 65 and 65A routes.  

 

The Leatherhead road is still worked by "red" buses and still using a derivative of the old 65 route number.  Today it is the 465, starting from Kingston and running as straight as it can down the main road to Leatherhead and on via Mickleham village to Dorking over former LT / LCBS routes 470 / 712 / 713 / 714.  The 71 reaches Chessington (World of Adventures, which was the zoo) from Kingston via Copt Gilders Estate.

 

Holders of TfL 60+ Oyster cards and any valid touch card (since cash fares are not taken) can use the 465 right through to Dorking where it terminates almost outside the site of the old DS Country Area garage.  As the greater part of the 465 runs in Surrey and is lightly used its future has been in doubt but last year I understand TfL and Surrey CC reached a further five year agreement to maintain it.  The proposal was to cut it back to Leatherhead but among objections was that that town no longer has a convenient terminal point; the added dead mileage to turn on a roundabout along the by-pass would have saved only one bus but cost Surrey an additional two buses to replace the Dorking section with a new contract.  

[PatB]

3 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 UK wheel profiles are the big problem in the US. 

BRMSB vs NMRA presumably ;-). 

[Johann Marsbar]

This rather nice Ford (AA?) of the delightfully named Tranquility Intertown Transit Service appeared an the URHS(NJ) open day at Boonton, NJ, back in September 2014.

 

 

One assumes, however, as an American based operator, they missed out on the opportunity to operate a fleet of Bristols................

 

Haven't quite worked out how it has aquired a Guy indian head radiator cap though!

[J. S. Bach]

13 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Some preserved American ones from a museum in Hershey, PA.....

 

 

The G572 was at a model transit meet at Rutgers Univ, New Brunswick, NJ on 20nov07:

And again a year later along with a sister:

[dpgibbons]

Can anyone identify this splendid charabanc please? Near Weymouth, Dorset; date unknown.

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

15 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

That change was made on 30/11/68 when the 71 was both extended from Kingston to Leatherhead and cut back from Richmond to Kingston on Sundays.  For a time Ham Estate had no Sunday bus service as a result.  The weekend service on the 65 had been the 65A at that time and which was renumbered to 65 as there was, after the changes, no difference between the new 65 and 65A routes.  

 

The Leatherhead road is still worked by "red" buses and still using a derivative of the old 65 route number.  Today it is the 465, starting from Kingston and running as straight as it can down the main road to Leatherhead and on via Mickleham village to Dorking over former LT / LCBS routes 470 / 712 / 713 / 714.  The 71 reaches Chessington (World of Adventures, which was the zoo) from Kingston via Copt Gilders Estate.

 

Holders of TfL 60+ Oyster cards and any valid touch card (since cash fares are not taken) can use the 465 right through to Dorking where it terminates almost outside the site of the old DS Country Area garage.  As the greater part of the 465 runs in Surrey and is lightly used its future has been in doubt but last year I understand TfL and Surrey CC reached a further five year agreement to maintain it.  The proposal was to cut it back to Leatherhead but among objections was that that town no longer has a convenient terminal point; the added dead mileage to turn on a roundabout along the by-pass would have saved only one bus but cost Surrey an additional two buses to replace the Dorking section with a new contract.  

 

While, in principle, I support the LT decision to get rid of suffix letters, I still find it confusing to see a red bus with a number starting with 3 or 4.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[Johann Marsbar]

8 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

The G572 was at a model transit meet at Rutgers Univ, New Brunswick, NJ on 20nov07:

 

 

The Hershey Museum is a section of this one...

https://www.aacamuseum.org/exhibit/museum-of-bus-transportation/

...and, as far as I could ascertain, is a collecton of privately owned vehicles that do get changed around over a period of time - this applying to the cars on display there as well as the buses, so they do "escape" from time to time.

 

I got the impression, from speaking to some of the staff, that they had a long held ambition to open thir own museum dedticated to buses, but had decided to go in with the AACA museum display instead. It is worth a visit, plus it is located in a very "touristy" area in Hershey.

 

I was amused to see this rather lost looking exhibit attached to the wall there though, given everything else being of US origin..........

 

[Gwiwer]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

While, in principle, I support the LT decision to get rid of suffix letters, I still find it confusing to see a red bus with a number starting with 3 or 4.

Likewise.  Although the array of suffix letters sometimes got very confusing.  The 77, 77A, 77B and 77C for example, shared the core route but ran on different days of the week and to different places altogether.  It was the 77A which was the last suffix-lettered route in London iirc and which is now the 87.  That number was previously a banana-shaped route between Harold Hill and Rainham via Barking way out east.  Country area routes used even more alphabet with the infrequent 319 and 431 both requiring no less than A to D variants, Watford schools required all of 346 - 346E and the race-days only there was the Epsom Station - Epsom Downs 406F although the only other variant of 406 bI have on record is the 406A.  There were specials as well such as the 74Z which was a zoo shuttle and an attempt to relieve pressure on the regular 74.  Until relatively recently London did not have "express" buses and the letter X did not appear.  It now does so with several routes using it as a prefix though a few have used it as a suffix.  Some limited stop operations used the 600-series former trolleybus numbers which is now reserved mainly for open-door school buses.  The 607 remains an honourable exception and retains the old trolleybus number along the Uxbridge Road for the long-standing limited-stop variant of the 207 (and now 427 at the western end).  

 

 

[PhilJ W]

9 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Can anyone identify this splendid charabanc please? Near Weymouth, Dorset; date unknown.

 

 

It looks like a Guy FBB. Note the solid tyres and toastrack seating.

[PatB]

12 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Can anyone identify this splendid charabanc please? Near Weymouth, Dorset; date unknown.

 

 

Bit of a roundabout route, but if you can pin down a reasonably accurate location you might be able to use the NLS map archive to check when the area was developed to narrow down the date. 

I had a quick look at Google Maps and the bus might be climbing out of Overcombe on what is now Bowleaze Coveway, although I could be entirely wrong. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by PatB

[runs as required]

I find it extremely difficult to date those US (normal control) vehicles from the 1920s. There seems little difference between long distance inter-state and intra-urbans - any hints?

2 

Might that Dorset chara be a Morris Commercial? (from the look of the rad badge)

3 

I’m not sure I go along with the generally accepted term of ‘PRESERVATION’ when used about vehicles. So many unique survivors seem to get scrapped subsequently. I suggest ‘currently restored’ to be a less absolute term.

The loss I most regret is an example of a BMMO REDD which at one time (in the late 1950s) was recorded as PRESERVED.

dh

 

[PhilJ W]

16 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Can anyone identify this splendid charabanc please? Near Weymouth, Dorset; date unknown.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, PatB said:

Bit of a roundabout route, but if you can pin down a reasonably accurate location you might be able to use the NLS map archive to check when the area was developed to narrow down the date. 

I had a quick look at Google Maps and the bus might be climbing out of Overcombe on what is now Bowleaze Coveway, although I could be entirely wrong. 

It is indeed Bowleaze Coveway climbing out of Overcoombe. The large house behind the bus is still there and not sustantially altered but is now surrounded by newer builds and mature trees and shrubs. As for the bus, I am certain that I have seen it or an identicle bus in a book or magazine. I am still searching for it but I have a lot of books and magazines.

[PhilJ W]

I found this on Google.

Its not the same, its normal control but is otherwise very similar.