Anyone Interested in Ships

[6990WitherslackHall]

10 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

Regarding the response of certain companies, Stena Line announced last week that it was revoking contractual sick pay to some 950 UK seagoing and port staff. Therefore if unable to join ship due to self isolation or infection then Stena are contractually abandoning their staff and forcing them to rely on statutory sick pay of £94 a week. This in addition to already making over 1000 shore based staff redundant Europe wide last week.

James Fishers have also today made a number of shore based staff redundant with immediate effect.

I truly hope that when this is over that people remember quite how callous certain companies (respectable and otherwise) have been with their staff and act accordingly.

There are plenty of other examples too, Wetherspoons being one.

 

£94 a week? when you think bout it it is not that much...

[Joseph_Pestell]

I had not even opened the business when this hit us.

 

But I had just appointed my first staff member and it never crossed my mind to cancel her contract although I could as during the probation period. If you can't treat your staff decently, you should not be in business.

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

A reputable and ethical shipping company?  My dad would have been amazed; his opinion of shipowners was not a complimentary one, and that was from a deck officer's pov!

I've worked for this company for 9 years as of next week, and I have to say that they really are doing their utmost to look after their people at present, but that comes as no surprise. I thought my previous long term employer was pretty good (19 years with them; only made redundant when the new parent company - Scandinavian - was forced to change its technical and crewing departments by an oil major threatening to blacklist its fleet of some 150 ships, and the new crewing agency refused to take on some 50 of us Western European officers...), but these guys are excellent. Not the best payers, but not the worst either, by a long way, and most of the sea staff are, like me, long term employees, so they must be doing something right.

 

Mark

[Joseph_Pestell]

14 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I've worked for this company for 9 years as of next week, and I have to say that they really are doing their utmost to look after their people at present, but that comes as no surprise. I thought my previous long term employer was pretty good (19 years with them; only made redundant when the new parent company - Scandinavian - was forced to change its technical and crewing departments by an oil major threatening to blacklist its fleet of some 150 ships, and the new crewing agency refused to take on some 50 of us Western European officers...), but these guys are excellent. Not the best payers, but not the worst either, by a long way, and most of the sea staff are, like me, long term employees, so they must be doing something right.

 

Mark

Of course, it would not be the same issue if we still had any British-flagged ships. You would be covered by the UK Govt measures (when they finally arrive).

[MarkC]

20 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Of course, it would not be the same issue if we still had any British-flagged ships. You would be covered by the UK Govt measures (when they finally arrive).

British flag? I did 18 months with a British outfit (not gas carriers) between being made redundant and starting with my present Company. Nope, can't say I was impressed, so when this opportunity arose, I grabbed it. Best move, job-wise, I made in a long time...

 

Actually, we do have many British-flagged ships; there's just no, or should I say very few, Brits on them, thanks to British CECs being handed out to all and sundry like confetti in the early Noughties by someone who wanted to revive the Red Ensign... but that's another discussion.

 

No, the traditional British Merchant Navy died some 35 years ago

 

Mark

[jjb1970]

The British flag is an open register with virtually no seafarer nationality requirements. 

[MarkC]

Annnddddd...finally berthed 6 hours ago in San Juan. Have just waved the USCG off. No issues; very straightforward. Phew! That's it for visitors. We are on full lock down here. Maybe 4 days discharging, then off to Portland Point, Jamaica, to do STS from Golar Breeze - a 43 year old lady...

 

Mark

[Bon Accord]

12 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Annnddddd...finally berthed 6 hours ago in San Juan. Have just waved the USCG off. No issues; very straightforward. Phew! That's it for visitors. We are on full lock down here. Maybe 4 days discharging, then off to Portland Point, Jamaica, to do STS from Golar Breeze - a 43 year old lady...

 

Mark

 

Even with everything going on you still had a visit from Uncle Sam's Confused Group? Jeez.

MCA have apparently abandoned all PSC visits for the duration, along with many other activities.

[MarkC]

19 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

 

Even with everything going on you still had a visit from Uncle Sam's Confused Group? Jeez.

MCA have apparently abandoned all PSC visits for the duration, along with many other activities.

First time in a US port for this lady, I understand, so it was a no-brainer. They were good as gold though

 

Mark

[Bon Accord]

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

First time in a US port for this lady, I understand, so it was a no-brainer. They were good as gold though

 

Mark

 

Last time I did one of those first entry inspections I was in a 150k dwt tanker with a freefall lifeboat, lying in near ballast condition at anchor off LA having just arrived after a near 6 week voyage from the Perishin' Gulf followed by a solid few days of STS operations of the slow steaming variety.

As well as the usual paperwork checks, LSA/FFE inspections etc USCG also insisted they witness us doing an actual freefall launch into what was a reasonable swell in the anchorage (causing some movement), cue what became a rather intense argument as to the risk of doing it in less than ideal conditions for a drill, specifically the problems we'd have getting the thing back onboard again.

Those style of boats were quite new-hat to that company (even if many other outfits had been using them for some years) and one of our sister ships had severely damaged her boat during recovery previously, which had in turn caused a major sense of humour failure in HQ.

In fairness to the USCG blokes doing the inspection they looked like they were fresh out of school and probably didn't have the experience to understand what a bunch of tired, grumpy and hard bitten old gits with weird accents were trying to tell them.

Of course a few years later when in another company and visiting the US under the protection of diplomatic clearance we did take some delight in telling them to get lost on the odd occasion they turned up at the gangway, same for immigration, customs etc. What confused them was that we weren't painted naval grey with a number on the side, therefore they thought we were a normal merchant ship and therefore fair game. Although it wasn't all plain sailing as one trip our 3/E's home-made, compressed air powered "can cannon" did get us into some bother in Galveston as the USCG took a very dim view of empty beer cans being propelled at speed over the side to much baying from the boozed up audience. It didn't help that they were doing it in port...

 

 

[MarkC]

15 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

 

Last time I did one of those first entry inspections I was in a 150k dwt tanker with a freefall lifeboat, lying in near ballast condition at anchor off LA having just arrived after a near 6 week voyage from the Perishin' Gulf followed by a solid few days of STS operations of the slow steaming variety.

As well as the usual paperwork checks, LSA/FFE inspections etc USCG also insisted they witness us doing an actual freefall launch into what was a reasonable swell in the anchorage (causing some movement), cue what became a rather intense argument as to the risk of doing it in less than ideal conditions for a drill, specifically the problems we'd have getting the thing back onboard again.

Those style of boats were quite new-hat to that company (even if many other outfits had been using them for some years) and one of our sister ships had severely damaged her boat during recovery previously, which had in turn caused a major sense of humour failure in HQ.

In fairness to the USCG blokes doing the inspection they looked like they were fresh out of school and probably didn't have the experience to understand what a bunch of tired, grumpy and hard bitten old gits with weird accents were trying to tell them.

Of course a few years later when in another company and visiting the US under the protection of diplomatic clearance we did take some delight in telling them to get lost on the odd occasion they turned up at the gangway, same for immigration, customs etc. What confused them was that we weren't painted naval grey with a number on the side, therefore they thought we were a normal merchant ship and therefore fair game. Although it wasn't all plain sailing as one trip our 3/E's home-made, compressed air powered "can cannon" did get us into some bother in Galveston as the USCG took a very dim view of empty beer cans being propelled at speed over the side to much baying from the boozed up audience. It didn't help that they were doing it in port...

 

 

Some great stories there,mate. Thanks for sharing.

 

Yes, I've seen idiocy from young coasties too - and some really bad man-management by extremely junior officers. The worst of those was when the rudder fell off my ship, a 6600cbm gas carrier, whilst we were on the way up the Delaware to Marcus Hook, Philadelphia, to discharge a full cargo of some sort of LPG - this was in 1998.

 

So, we managed to stop her without hitting anyone or running aground - and when you were at full sea speed and doing some 16 knots, that was <interesting>, seeing a crash astern of a slow speed Sulzer whilst 'up close and personal' to the engine - it is something I will never forget...

 

Anyway, 2 coasties appeared; an older NCO who had, as the saying goes, 'seen a few smokoes'. He went round the steering gear and the rest of the Engine Room with me (We didn't know the rudder blade had actually fallen off at this time - all we knew was that we had had a steering failure). He concurred with what we had done, and what steps I had already done to try and find out what had happened. Enter his superior - an arrogant little $h*** who wouldn't listen, and in fact bawled out the other guy IN FRONT OF ME for some alleged 'error in procedure'. Not nice to witness. Still, he did eventually condescend to acknowledge that the ship's staff were not at fault. How generous...

 

Anyway, no cargo ops here today - there is a well-enforced curfew in place ashore, so the shore wallahs have disappeared until 0900 tomorrow...

 

Mark

[drmditch]

You can't stop there!

(well, your ship did!)

Please tell us what happened next.

(re the rudder and recovery).

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by drmditch

[MarkC]

5 hours ago, drmditch said:

You can't stop there!

(well, your ship did!)

Please tell us what happened next.

(re the rudder and recovery).

 

Well, we got a diver out - and he could only dive at slack water - the Delaware is a fast-flowing tidal river. Visibility is pretty grim too, as you can imagine...

 

We were thinking that the problem was that the rudder had simply come loose at the rudder stock - when it was reported that the whole rudder was missing - except for the top horizontal plate - we were stunned, to say the least.

 

Anyway, we were towed by tugs up the river to Marcus Hook and we discharged normally. Discussions were now ongoing as to where to be taken for repairs. Eventually it was agreed that we would go to Norfolk, Virginia, and to get there, rather than risk going out into the Atlantic, we were taken through the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal - which I doubt that too many deep-sea ships have done, and certainly not gas carriers.

 

Once in the Chesapeake we were able to gas-free the ship as we would normally do, prior to entering the shipyard - which is in the middle of where the US Navy bases many of its ships. Jaw-dropping stuff.

 

We were there for 6 weeks whilst a new rudder was made. The old one was eventually found by the Corps of Engineers, after a 3 week search. They had decided that it was a potential 'risk to navigation' - and it actually could have been. They found it, upright, but just outside the buoyed channel.

 

Why did it fail? We'll never know for certain, but enquiries revealed that a few months previously, whilst trying to get alongside at Leixoes, Portugal (The commercial port area of Porto) in poor weather, a tug had gone under our stern at one point. It's likely that she hit the rudder, weakening it, but that can't be proved.

 

Here's another scary thought - 24 hours earlier, we had been in a Force 10 storm as we approached the US coast, having come from La Corunna in NW Spain, with this cargo. Had the rudder broken away then, I suspect that I would not be able to be typing this now...

 

Mark

 

[jjb1970]

Officious PSC and checkbox experts isn't a uniquely US issue, at policy level I find the USCG and US EPA (who have authority for many environmental matters) are way more competent and capable than just about any other equivalents. They're very unusual in not being reliant on recognized organizations (which basically means class) and seconded experts from industry and academia to look after all the technical and difficult stuff. I think the only other two countries with similar in depth expertise and in-house capability are China and Japan.

[drmditch]

Re: Missing rudder. 

Thank you for telling us the story.

Makes my anecdote of tearing the mains'l (which had three reefs at the time) in Force 9 (or something but nobody was counting) in the Heligoland Bight a bit tame by comparison!

 

PS - hope you are safe and not too uncomfortable in port at the moment.

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, drmditch said:

Re: Missing rudder. 

Thank you for telling us the story.

Makes my anecdote of tearing the mains'l (which had three reefs at the time) in Force 9 (or something but nobody was counting) in the Heligoland Bight a bit tame by comparison!

 

PS - hope you are safe and not too uncomfortable in port at the moment.

No problem - and that episode is one I will never forget.

 

We're happy enough in port, thanks. We are ready to start, but the shore have an issue with their control systems which they are having problems with resolving, so we wait. Hell, it's not as though we're going anywhere else any time soon, other than our 115m x 18m x 12m home from home   and 13th April for any crew changes seems to be very optimistic at present...

 

Mark

[peterfgf]

4 hours ago, MarkC said:

Well, we got a diver out - and he could only dive at slack water - the Delaware is a fast-flowing tidal river. Visibility is pretty grim too, as you can imagine...

 

We were thinking that the problem was that the rudder had simply come loose at the rudder stock - when it was reported that the whole rudder was missing - except for the top horizontal plate - we were stunned, to say the least.

 

Anyway, we were towed by tugs up the river to Marcus Hook and we discharged normally. Discussions were now ongoing as to where to be taken for repairs. Eventually it was agreed that we would go to Norfolk, Virginia, and to get there, rather than risk going out into the Atlantic, we were taken through the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal - which I doubt that too many deep-sea ships have done, and certainly not gas carriers.

 

Once in the Chesapeake we were able to gas-free the ship as we would normally do, prior to entering the shipyard - which is in the middle of where the US Navy bases many of its ships. Jaw-dropping stuff.

 

We were there for 6 weeks whilst a new rudder was made. The old one was eventually found by the Corps of Engineers, after a 3 week search. They had decided that it was a potential 'risk to navigation' - and it actually could have been. They found it, upright, but just outside the buoyed channel.

 

Why did it fail? We'll never know for certain, but enquiries revealed that a few months previously, whilst trying to get alongside at Leixoes, Portugal (The commercial port area of Porto) in poor weather, a tug had gone under our stern at one point. It's likely that she hit the rudder, weakening it, but that can't be proved.

 

Here's another scary thought - 24 hours earlier, we had been in a Force 10 storm as we approached the US coast, having come from La Corunna in NW Spain, with this cargo. Had the rudder broken away then, I suspect that I would not be able to be typing this now...

 

Mark

 

Pretty sure I went through the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal on a Maersk "A" class container ship 20-25 years ago. Thanks for the story anyhow.

Peterfgf

[MarkC]

23 minutes ago, peterfgf said:

Pretty sure I went through the Chesapeake & Delaware Canal on a Maersk "A" class container ship 20-25 years ago. Thanks for the story anyhow.

Peterfgf

Hi Peter

 

At the time it wasn't a regular thing, according to the bridge team who had been talking to the pilot, but I can certainly see the likes of those A boats using it. At least there's no lock restrictions, just beam and draught

 

Mark

[billywhizz]

Only just found the thread. I was invited on board HMS Edinburgh during her farewell tour and sailed overnight from Portsmouth to London and moored alongside HMS Belfast. A trip I will never forget! 

[billywhizz]

Also did a fathers and sons trip on HMS Edinburgh (my brother was serving on her at the time) when my Dad was over from Australia. He has spent 45 years in the Merchant Navy and is still serving as a Pilot at Gladstone. He served his apprenticeship with Athel Line, then worked his way up to Captain with Jebsens. He then became a Thames Pilot before emigrating.
A great way to spend quality time with both my Dad and brother!!

[jjb1970]

http://www.ilo.org/global/about-the-ilo/newsroom/news/WCMS_740307/lang--en/index.htm

 

[MarkC]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

http://www.ilo.org/global/about-the-ilo/newsroom/news/WCMS_740307/lang--en/index.htm

 

Thanks for that. The only place any of our fleet has had reported any problems so far was in Lavera, where the authorities wanted to put a watchman on board... Took 3 days of arguing before shore relented...

 

Will see how things develop - our office is good at letting us know what's going on.

 

Mark

[jjb1970]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/01/one-seafarer-almost-cried-the-last-chaplain-visiting-quarantined-boats

[MarkC]

38 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/01/one-seafarer-almost-cried-the-last-chaplain-visiting-quarantined-boats

It's going to get worse before it gets better - some owners really are beyond contempt...

 

As for repatriation of crews - we're not holding our breath here. We heard yesterday that schools in the Netherlands are remaining closed until 28/4 at least now, so we suspect that the rest of the Netherlands will be guided by that, including decisions made by our Office. They still plan on a big update on policy next Monday (6th) though.

 

Mark

 

 

[jjb1970]

The crew change issue is difficult.

 

Many ports still allow crew changes but some impose 14 days quarantine and in many cases there are no onward flights to get home. In some cases when people reach their home country they face another 14 days quarantine, so before getting home they've spent 28 days in quarantine. And some countries won't accept anyone (their own nationals included) from some countries (at one point there were over 500 Indian seafarers stuck in England waiting to be allowed back into India, no idea what the situation is now).

 

There are some typically crass and stupid responses. For example some ports (and I'm not talking about ports in backwards less developed countries) are demanding leavers are tested for COVID but prohibit the "export" of test kits to ships meaning crews can't be tested.

 

In all honesty, looking globally the response of the MCA and UK Border Force has actually been admirable and among the better organized and logical ones, certainly way above average. The UK was also very quick to designate seafarers and port workers as key workers.

 

In many countries different government departments are contradicting each other (and again, we're not talking the sort of countries people in the developed world like to laugh at).