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Charlie586

Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

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Charlie,

If I remember rightly Macadam was used on roads from about 1820, but not sure about on platforms.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

compacted fine stone / macadam (though I'm not sure when that was first used without googling)

 

It began to be used in earnest in the first half of the 1800s (the version without tar). I am currently looking into this myself and have tried to capture some sources and illustrative images in recent posts in the thread below. The articles by the Greater London Archeological Society are helpful, though they do have a London bias.

 

 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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12 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Charlie,

If I remember rightly Macadam was used on roads from about 1820, but not sure about on platforms.

 

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

It began to be used in earnest in the first half of the 1800s (the version without tar). I am currently looking into this myself and have tried to capture some sources and illustrative images in recent posts in the thread below. The articles by the Greater London Archeological Society are helpful, though they do have a London bias.

 

 

Thanks Chris and Mikkel. 

A better quality photo than I posted seems to be macadam or something that would look similar. Other photos of the station are much later, so I can't be certain it hasn't changed. Thanks for link to thread.

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Googled and found a better photo. But the photo in link below is pre-track widening but is after footbridge so later than 1896 but before 1930ish.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wantage-Road-Railway-Station-Photo-Steventon-Challow-Great-Western-Rly-/251577741674

 

The track was altered from mixed to standard baulk road 1892 and again from standard gauge baulk road to sleepered at some point later (unsure of date), so the question (that possibly cannot be answered) is did they re-lay the platform at the same time? It certainly looks in good condition in the ebay photo. And the surface looks different to the better quality photo I cropped the above from (in BRJ 17). I've confused myself and will probably go for macadam (and then find a photo proving otherwise the day I finish).

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That surface looks very like the brick paving used where a none slip hard wearing surface is required. Though in the picture it appears to cover most if not all of the platform it is often only used where neccessary such as where milk churns are handled.

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1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

That surface looks very like the brick paving used where a none slip hard wearing surface is required. Though in the picture it appears to cover most if not all of the platform it is often only used where neccessary such as where milk churns are handled.

 

thanks Phil

It's a shame there's nothing I can see in the photo to try and date it better. Would the paving have been used as early as 1880?

 

The other pre widening photo that does the rounds on ebay is a colourised postcard, but it's little use for platform surface.

 

postcard.png.4c22e91bc066cd40fa87231357fe62b3.png

 

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The broad gauge spacing was retained (based on the postcard) so they would not have had to work on the platforms at the same time that track changes took place. This in contrast to places - like at Hungerford - where the separation between tracks was reduced after conversion to standard gauge.

 

I too wonder how long baulk road lasted, particularly less travelled rail in sidings. Was there any left at grouping for example 

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12 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

 

I too wonder how long baulk road lasted, particularly less travelled rail in sidings. Was there any left at grouping for example 

Bridge rail, at least, was still in place at Burlescombe in Devon until the Great Western Society recovered it for the broad gauge project at Didcot.

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17 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

I too wonder how long baulk road lasted, particularly less travelled rail in sidings. Was there any left at grouping for example 

An elderly ex-GWR employee I once met (who had a fabulous gauge 1 garden railway by the way) told me that  baulk road trackwork could still be seen in out of the way places well into the 1930s and even later.  Mostly in sidings, but it was definitely still in use.

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2 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

 

thanks Phil

It's a shame there's nothing I can see in the photo to try and date it better. Would the paving have been used as early as 1880?

 

The other pre widening photo that does the rounds on ebay is a colourised postcard, but it's little use for platform surface.

 

postcard.png.4c22e91bc066cd40fa87231357fe62b3.png

 

The disused down platform at Burnham-on-Crouch (GER) had them and pretty obviously they were original dating back to the opening of the line in 1887. 

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9 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

The broad gauge spacing was retained (based on the postcard) so they would not have had to work on the platforms at the same time that track changes took place. This in contrast to places - like at Hungerford - where the separation between tracks was reduced after conversion to standard gauge.

 

I too wonder how long baulk road lasted, particularly less travelled rail in sidings. Was there any left at grouping for example 

 

Thanks. The up relief was still baulk after the main line had been sleepered. It may have been relaid when it became a loop in 1915ish.

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8 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Bridge rail, at least, was still in place at Burlescombe in Devon until the Great Western Society recovered it for the broad gauge project at Didcot.

Thanks Nick. I've wondered how long the sidings at wantage road remained baulk. I know the tramway had bits here and there for a long time.

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8 hours ago, Annie said:

An elderly ex-GWR employee I once met (who had a fabulous gauge 1 garden railway by the way) told me that  baulk road trackwork could still be seen in out of the way places well into the 1930s and even later.  Mostly in sidings, but it was definitely still in use.

Thanks. It's a shame someone has not researched it, but it would be a hell of a job.

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7 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The disused down platform at Burnham-on-Crouch (GER) had them and pretty obviously they were original dating back to the opening of the line in 1887. 

Thanks. I'll have a search through the broad gauge society pages, if that doesn't offer anything else I'll go for the brick style sets.

I should be able to 3d print them, although the print area isn't large it won't take long to print a few. Or I could print a reversed 'stamp' and press it into das clay.

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2 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks. I'll have a search through the broad gauge society pages, if that doesn't offer anything else I'll go for the brick style sets.

I should be able to 3d print them, although the print area isn't large it won't take long to print a few. Or I could print a reversed 'stamp' and press it into das clay.

The second option would be cheaper. The GER on most platforms only had the area where milk churns would have been loaded/unloaded, but the GER was never a very wealthy company so that might have been for economy. They were used on things like cattle docks. Ratio make a GWR cattle dock kit and IIRC the platform surface is the brick style sets so perhaps it would be an idea to check one out.

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13 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Bridge rail, at least, was still in place at Burlescombe in Devon until the Great Western Society recovered it for the broad gauge project at Didcot.

I have a funny feeling that may well have been a private siding. Bridge rail was recovered from various places around the network. I do recall helping to collect some Barlow rail from a garden in Compton which is now on the standard gauge siding at Didcot. Shorter lengths were used to make a trolley/crane for positioning platform slabs in the Transfer Shed.

 

I also have in my garden some platform slabs that supposedly came from Wantage Road when it was demolished. My parents bought their house from a railway man who had rescued them and laid them as the drive. They are bomb proof and even steam roller wheels failed to make them sink. When my parents had the drive redone I collected them and used them in our garden. I moved them again when we moved and they are now a garden path. They look to be granite chipping/cement mixture. I would guess they are about 2' x 3' and 2" thick and heavy!

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8 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The second option would be cheaper. The GER on most platforms only had the area where milk churns would have been loaded/unloaded, but the GER was never a very wealthy company so that might have been for economy. They were used on things like cattle docks. Ratio make a GWR cattle dock kit and IIRC the platform surface is the brick style sets so perhaps it would be an idea to check one out.

 

Thanks. A quick look at the ratio sets I can't see if they have the groove marks that are in the photo. I probably need to look at a closer view.

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6 hours ago, didcot said:

I have a funny feeling that may well have been a private siding. Bridge rail was recovered from various places around the network. I do recall helping to collect some Barlow rail from a garden in Compton which is now on the standard gauge siding at Didcot. Shorter lengths were used to make a trolley/crane for positioning platform slabs in the Transfer Shed.

 

I also have in my garden some platform slabs that supposedly came from Wantage Road when it was demolished. My parents bought their house from a railway man who had rescued them and laid them as the drive. They are bomb proof and even steam roller wheels failed to make them sink. When my parents had the drive redone I collected them and used them in our garden. I moved them again when we moved and they are now a garden path. They look to be granite chipping/cement mixture. I would guess they are about 2' x 3' and 2" thick and heavy!

 

Thanks Didcot, that's very helpful. I guessed at about 3-4ft so am happy to have a proper dimension. I don't suppose you've got any other station bits around?

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No other Wantage Road station bits unfortunately. I've attached a picture of the slabs. The smaller ones are from Wickes and are a reasonable match. They just need weathering in a bit.

20190629_115851.jpg

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22 minutes ago, didcot said:

No other Wantage Road station bits unfortunately. I've attached a picture of the slabs. The smaller ones are from Wickes and are a reasonable match. They just need weathering in a bit.

 

That's useful for the colour, thanks. Your garden railway looks excellent.

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Not much has been done the past two weeks, haven't got back into the early morning routine yet. 

 

20200119_103616.jpg.41881589f2322f18a5bab8b0746e4035.jpg

 

There's 2 sheets of ply (6mm? something like that size) behind the cardboard mock up bridge. Soldered a few more frame spacers but I'm having trouble getting good joints. The brass was quite thick and tarnished so probably a combination of not enough heat, poor cleaning and not being used to soldering brass that thick. I'll have another go at some point. Can't remember when I last posted prince albert, he/she's got a boiler support in place now with another ready to do the other side.

 

1374396037_wantstatbridge.png.628a2c574859bb2daa7f565731a5937a.png

 

This is the bridge plan I scanned a few years ago from 2 pages in BRJ but I didn't stitch it together very well. I'll probably try and draw it by hand before cutting the wood.

 

Also found some more examples of the sett style platform that I'll need for parts of the platform. Looking again at photos I'm sure it's a macadam style nearer the station building, with the setts further along.

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrw393.htm

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrsh1335a.htm

 

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On 19 January 2020 at 19:56, Charlie586 said:

Also found some more examples of the sett style platform that I'll need for parts of the platform.

 

You may wish to look at Wenlock's excellent Blog for Sherton Abbas in respect of the platform surface he produced albeit in 7mm scale.

 

I am currently experimenting on something similar using my Silhouette cutter 

 

image.jpeg.35e3804d05995c5b14c4517ace2acf80.jpeg

 

Not certain if it would reproduce in 4mm scale using the same method ? 

 

G

 

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Your cutter deserves a bonus after that ordeal! :)

 

Could be tricky in 4mm. I've done some setts in 4mm scale on the Cutter. One problem is the ridges that form on either side of the groove.

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8 hours ago, bgman said:

 

 

You may wish to look at Wenlock's excellent Blog for Sherton Abbas in respect of the platform surface he produced albeit in 7mm scale.

 

I am currently experimenting on something similar using my Silhouette cutter 

 

image.jpeg.35e3804d05995c5b14c4517ace2acf80.jpeg

 

Not certain if it would reproduce in 4mm scale using the same method ? 

 

G

 

Thanks Grahame 

I read most of Wenlock's blog last year but will revisit it. The silhouette output looks excellent, in 4mm I think it would have to be overscale to get a representation of it. When I get the 3D printer back up and running I'll try and few tests.

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