Pacer Discussions...

[cheesysmith]

You must have had it soft. A cardboard box would have been heven.

[big jim]

Blimey, 3 pages after a day!!

 

I must admit I quite like them, travelled in them lots and driven a fair few of them too, from a drivers point of view they are not a bad little unit on the whole, you have to have your wits about you during leaf fall though as they can get a bit lively

 

The cab is fairly comfy, a better driving position than say a 150/2 for example, simple design, easy to fault find stuff, no complicated electronics to bring you to a stop

 

I do hope one is preserved when they are withdrawn from service as, like it or not, they are a key part of our railway heritage

[AncientMariner]

I regularly travel between Plymouth and Dawlish on family visits, and depending on when I travel, and what is supplied, I get to travel on HST’s, Voyagers, 150’s, 153’s and 143’s.  As the trip usually – but not always - involves a change at Newton Abbot, I may get to travel on four of the above on what is approximately an 80-mile round trip.

 

The worst case scenario is when a Voyager is terminated at Newton Abbot due to the wrong type of wind and tide along the Dawlish sea wall, and its hapless occupants then have to disembark, and squeeze into  what may be a two-coach 143 to continue their journey.  I only have to endure 12 minutes of this, but many passengers have to continue to Exeter to catch another Voyager, and continue their journey, probably an hour late, and having lost their seat reservations.  

 

I don’t get why Voyagers are called so, as the term indicates a sea passage, and Voyagers are probably the most unseaworthy of all trains.  A hint of salt water in the air, and the service the Voyagers provide is shut down along the sea wall.  In my professional life, I was accustomed to checking the tide and shipping forecast prior to a voyage, but not for a train journey.

 

The 12-minute trip I often undertake on 143’s doesn’t upset me too much. Assuming I can find a seat, I don’t find them too uncomfortable to sit in, especially when they are stopped at a station as then I get the chance to legibly insert my crossword characters neatly inside their little boxes.  But given the choice, I’d prefer an HST every time.

 

John

[The Johnster]

Can I nominate the entire population of South Wales as members?

[Oldddudders]

Of course the punters deserve better, but being careful what you wish for was never more true than with modern replacement rolling stock!

 

 

Just be careful what you wish for. In my experience the replacement is usually much worse that the thing they are replacing.

 

Are we saying the same thing?

[burgundy]

Did Indian Railways produce a version?

Best wishes 

Eric 

[D854_Tiger]

Newcastle to Carlisle is the furthest I've been on one and that was a quite pleasant trip, on a nice sunny day, with only moderate speeds.

 

Strange trip we were delayed for around ten minutes because of (and I quote the guard), "A plane crash."

 

Not knowing what to expect, I was quite surprised we resumed our journey quite so quickly then we passed what looked like a WW2 fighter that had landed in a field, pretty much still in one piece, couldn't make out what it was only that it was blue and looked US Air Force to me.

 

Prefer them to the class 150 for some reason, probably for the view from the windows, the class 150 being a very unfortunate design from that perspective.

 

I've also been on one from Sheffield to Huddersfield and on that line, with lots of jointed rail, you really do get them at their nodding donkey best and full wheel screech around lots of curves, for the novelty value, I would give that 7 out of 10, if only for the view of all those passengers bouncing up and down, but then I'm guessing it was only a novelty for me.

 

I was walking towards Retford station once and I heard one going round that curve and I knew instantly where and what I was hearing, you could have heard that in Doncaster.

[Rivercider]

I regularly commuted on 143s to and from Bristol and quite like them, especially since the refurb to 2+2 seating.

As I have said before if waiting on the platform with 200 others I would much rather have wanted to see a pair of 143s arrive at Temple Meads for my journey home than one 158.

Since they have headed west I still get to ride on them occasionally to Barnstaple, and on the Exmouth-Exeter-Paignton route where I think they do a good job,

the lack of corridor between units is a problem but there is often an assistant ticket examiner in the second set anyway.  

 

For a few months I was able to ride on and compare 142s and 143s side by side and much preferred the 143s.

 

cheers

[Moggs Eye]

Lincoln & Edale! They are not very close. I am guessing you had ti change at Sheffield?

Was that on 1 pacer or a pacer & sprinter?

 

It was best if both legs of the journey were on a Pacer, but sometimes a 150 would appear between Sheffield and the Hope Valley. The view was better in the Pacer.

[APOLLO]

"Preserved" in America - LEV2 - half a Donkey !! 

 

 

 

http://www.departmentals.com/photo/LEV2

 

http://www.ct-trolley.org/about/collection/

 

The bloody things are like cockroaches - indestructable !!!

 

Brit15

[royaloak]

I live in South Wales and use the Valley Lines Pacers on a frequent basis. I suggest that those people who like Pacers ask for them to be transferred to where they live, so long as it is not South Wales.

Already got some thanks, but if you have any spare I am sure we could use them down here to strengthen our services, if you could arrange somebody to drive them up to Bristol in groups of 4 I will take them the rest of the way, cheers.

[w124bob]

As one who worked with them, let me save time and list all the bad points-

Brakes. Originally built with single brake cylinder and cables to the brake shoes, these would stretch in service, giving unreliable brakes, and sometimes dangerous. These were replaced with direct acting brake cylinders.

 

Doors. They originally had bus double folding doors that could be blown open with a breeze. They were replaced, but the new doors (that they still have) had their own fault. These are locked into place with a little relay/locking pin that could and did stick. A carriage key would loosen these and get the doors to interlock.

 

Windows. They were only built with single pain windows, making them vulnerable to broken windows. Even flying ballast (never mind vandalism) was a hazard. They had to fit plastic film over the windows for safety (all other trains on the network are fitted with double glazed windows, and HSTs etc have a speed limit with the outer pane broken).

 

Engines. They originally had updated Leyland bus engines (a direct descendent of the one fitted to the first gen DMUs). Very unreliable. All replaced with cummins 12L ones.

 

Gearboxes. They originally had bus gearboxes fitted, useless. Replaced with voith.

 

Chassis. Poor over jointed tracks. But this was a brilliant piece of RTC design. Trust me, on CWR these are very stable. Even at speeds off the clock.

 

Interior. Built down to a basic price. But the later replacements never seem to capture the simplicity of the originals. They always seemed to me like trying to polish a tu*d. The bus seats at least allowed a good open view with the low backed seats. These along with the big windows did give a good view of whatever bit of northern industrial decay you were passing through. 

 

Heating. Why bother. The heating came from roof mounted heaters using engine coolant. Never mind leaks caused problems with the engines, and leaked into the saloons. Having the hot air from these at roof level and hot air rises, good idea. And the aux webasto heaters, they never worked.

I'll second everything on here, I drove them for 18 years out of Manchester Victoria before heading across town to XC. Hateful things and in the long run were they really cheaper as they've also had sanders fitted in the last 5 years as well. Convinced my tinitus was started as a result of sqwealing round the Oldham loop.

[wombatofludham]

23 Feb en route from Amritsar.JPG

Did Indian Railways produce a version?

Best wishes 

Eric 

 

Looks like something the GNR(I) or County Donegal railway designed.  Has all the aesthetic appeal of a bomb shelter and probably built on similar lines.

 

​Actually I wouldn't mind Nodders on the Cambrian if they could talk to the signalling so long as it meant an increased frequency.  I know a lot of my neighbours here in Dudley on Sea love the direct trains back to the Midlands (and I always brag that we have a better train service to Birmingham than Dudley) but if by using connecting trains we could have a proper hourly service to Aberystwyth, and an hourly connection up the coast, I'd sacrifice the through service as a same platform connection at Mach is no hardship.  However, I think they'd have to grease the flanges well for the section between Dyfi Junction and Aberdyfi as I suspect the long wheelbase would protest a fair bit on the coastal curves.

 

​The view woulkd be nice though and there was a four wheel observation car used by the GWR in the early 30s on the route, so it would be like going back in time.

[cheesysmith]

I forgot anouther fault. These would be the only train that in high winds on a embankment loose speed due to loss of traction. The high wind had caused them to lift off the rails and the wheels kept spinning up.

 

That indian rail version looks like the suspension is a direct copy of the pacer suspension. At least ours has doors.

[DavidB-AU]

Proof that Iran has weapons of mass destruction.

 

 

Cheers

David

[SRman]

I forgot anouther fault. These would be the only train that in high winds on a embankment loose speed due to loss of traction. The high wind had caused them to lift off the rails and the wheels kept spinning up.

 

That indian rail version looks like the suspension is a direct copy of the pacer suspension. At least ours has doors.

 

Ahh, yes, but the Indian one has through-flow ventilation!

[DavidB-AU]

Not forgetting the crime against humanity inflected on the former colonials.

 

Cheers

David

[Nearholmer]

Rather a vague destination on the front of that unit, isn’t it?

[DavidB-AU]

Rather a vague destination on the front of that unit, isn’t it?

 

The destination on the other end was equally vague.

 

Cheers

David

[Nearholmer]

Brilliant’

 

 

“One and two halves to North West Europe, please.”

[LNER4479]

Also to be found in Czech republic...

[eastwestdivide]

As a S Yorks resident, I travel on the Northern ones a lot. The 144s seem to be in better condition than the 142s, although the seats tend to nobble your knees on a 144.

The ride is variable, and very sensitive to track quality I think.

On the Northern 142s, there's lots of dodgy trim and fittings. I've had to warn the passenger in front of me that their shoulder was about to get soaked when a rainstorm penetrated the window seals, and I've also photographed this piece of improvised maintenance:

 

The Hope Valley services seem to get a disproportionate share of the ex-Merseyrail refurbs, with the horrible bolt upright 3+2 seats, which really give me backache after a few minutes.

The super-Pacer (refurbished 144) is interesting, brightly lit and clean when I've been on it, and seemingly less rattly, although the seats are a little thin.

 

Around here, they'e all being replaced in the next couple of years, mostly with 150s on the local services. I was on a refurbished Northern 150 the other day - OK, comfy, tidy and clean, but as others have said, if you want a window seat with a view, there's less choice on a 150.

 

Oh, has anyone mentioned the ear-splitting squealing from a Pacer on a corner?

[Intercity125]

23 Feb en route from Amritsar.JPG

Did Indian Railways produce a version?

Best wishes 

Eric 

Plenty of room in on the Indian Railbus for another 50 passengers.  Probably why they haven't got any roof mounted pods on them.......... 

[Dave47549]

.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[Nearholmer]

If you look at the history of internal-combustion powered railcars/railbuses, which stretches back to c1890, the Pacer does seem a "thing out of time", in that railways all over the world had tried, and usually found wanting, the very lightweight four-wheeled car, and moved on to more sensible things, long before the Pacer development.

 

I'm sure the guys who developed it thought they'd 'cracked the problem'; they certainly put a huge amount of thought, effort and science into it, but I can't help thinking that they were 'barking up the wrong tree'.

 

If you look at what vivarail are doing now with ex-LU D78 stock, something similar could have been built in, well, 1978, by which I mean a bogie vehicle, on a light but very robust steel frame, having an aluminium body, even perhaps a Leyland National body, 'automotive standard' Diesel engine plus electric transmission (which obviates a lot of the problems of mechanical drive to bogies). Electric transmissions were, then, still a bit heavy, because power-electronic drives were still in a formative stage, but not mega-heavy for, say 300hp/car. I think a world-wide trawl would turn-up railcars of exactly that kind, for example the products of Brissoneau et Lotz in France, which were in operation way before 1980.

 

Would such a vehicle have been more expensive, or have taken longer to develop, than the Pacer? I'm not convinced it would have. Probably what 'did for' electric transmission for railcars in this country at that period was the 210, which would undoubtedly have been a brilliant job, a sort of 'baby cousin of HST', but was clearly 'too good to be cheap enough', and was founded in the 'one big engine' paradigm, which has many pros, but also a good few cons.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Nearholmer