Pacer Discussions...

[Intercity125]

Proof that Iran has weapons of mass destruction.

 

class141.jpg

 

Cheers

David

Is this Britain's way of improving relations with Iran?  A brave step me thinks...........

[PatB]

Is this Britain's way of improving relations with Iran?  A brave step me thinks...........

 

Well it probably wasn't as bad as giving them the Hillman Hunter .

[Nearholmer]

As a PS to my post 75:

 

I wonder whether the design team considered the option of a '14xx and auto-trailer' in Diesel guise. I do have a vague recollection that BR pondered a 'second generation type 1 or 2', but what it was meant to be for I can't remember. It's just that the thought of a tiny little diesel loco, plus a driving trailer or two appeals to me ........ not that it would actually have been a good idea!

[Intercity125]

Well it probably wasn't as bad as giving them the Hillman Hunter .

I've just spent the past minute crying with laughter.  The Hillman Hunter proved to be a good money spinner for Rootes/Chrysler/Peugeot.  Seems that we're hell bent on sending our cast offs to areas of the world prone to instability.  Perhaps the Pacer and the Hillman Hunter have a calming effect on the population.....................

[cheesysmith]

Lets be honest, trains being built now are built like tanks and have built in redundancy. And they come with AC and all the added extras, which are cheap to built in but add to the leasing costs. These are good ideas from the companies point, because they add value to the train and make it more of a asset. But we need a new gen DMU, but does it need all the extras, and a 100mph top speed, and with TPWS do we realy need battleship build quality and crash resistance for a 75mph lightweight basic DMU?

 

I think the withdrawal of the PEP designed stock opens up a chance for a suitable pacer replacement. A 315 3 car, with a pair of the ford diesel engines under each driving car, powering the original traction motors. A nice light cheap basic train. And you can copy what they are fitting to new busses and cars, to improve fuel economy, by using energy recovery technology in that when braking the motors work in regen mode to charge batteries mounted under the centre trailer coach. You then feed everything else, lights, compressors, heating/cooling from these bats. Now if the bus voltage from the engines to the motors and bats are the same, you can just run the engines to charge up the aux from cold without any extra weight penalty from needing to carry any extra alternators or compressors. These trains whilst not meeting latest crash requirements, have proved to be tough in a accident. The only modern extra I would fit would be wifi, even busses come fitted with wifi now. Also, the centre coach would give you plenty of space for the disabled bog, and using 3 coach trains would also increase the capacity of these pacer replacements. Also, doing this would enable better grip due to spreading the power out over more axles. A cheap 75mph unit suitable for the lines that still have poor economics even now, that the original cheap pacer helped saved in the first place. .Also, the imminent withdrawal of the PEP family give a window to get these units rebuilt and access friendly before the 2020 deadline.

[4630]

I DON'T hate them.  I'd like to preserve 144022 when it's withdrawn.

 

 

The object of your desire;

 

 

Northern 144022 between Brighouse and Elland on 16th August 2017 working 2W74, 12.50 Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford Interchange.

 

According to a list that I've seen it's due to come off lease, together with sisters 144014-023, on 31st March 2019.  I'm sure Porterbrook would be open to sensible offers for preservation.

 

I think they're ideal units for preservation on heritage lines.  Reasonably simple and cheap to maintain by modern standards. 

[pharrc20]

I have the pleasure of 142s on the Manchester to Chester line several times a week travelling from Stockport to Northwich. Highlights include the Skelton Junc. to Deansgate Junc. curves plus the lovely sideways swing and double dips just to the south of Hale those always catch out unwary souls who are not holding onto anything! Last nights commute was intended to start with the 4.57 that starts from Stockport but cancelled sigh.... no traincrew for the unit from Newton Heath. So that means two lots of passengers waiting for the 5.19 from Piccadilly, which is already a busy train. Net result stand all the way to Northwich. At least I had the warm pipe to hold onto lol. Not the best units but better than no unit at all... unless like last night no unit came for 4.57.

I have said it before it is a pity that copy units of class 150/2s were not built fully backwards compatible with the older units.

Paul

[lmsforever]

​What a handsome well designed looking unit and it must be very popular with passengers who queue up to travel on them ,I bet there will be a big turnout to say good by when they finally are retired after such excellent service and providing passenger comforts unsurparsed by other stock.

[D854_Tiger]

Chassis. Poor over jointed tracks. But this was a brilliant piece of RTC design. Trust me, on CWR these are very stable. Even at speeds off the clock.

 

 

Yes, get one on the right kind of railway and they could be pretty good, once had one on the limited stop Manchester Victoria - Liverpool Lime Street service and that was OK, apart from the stops not being quite limited enough and those restarts can be a bit painfull, noise and vibration wise, and not a pleasant noise either.

 

Trouble is, where and how often are they ever used on the right kind of railway, they were built for the secondary routes, not main lines.

 

It seems a pity those class 230s haven't replaced them, by now, sound engineering but ultimatley perhaps not so sound politcs.

[LNER4479]

​What a handsome well designed looking unit and it must be very popular with passengers who queue up to travel on them ,I bet there will be a big turnout to say good by when they finally are retired after such excellent service and providing passenger comforts unsurparsed by other stock.

Do we detect the merest hint of the tongue repositioned ever slightly to one side of your face?

[cal.n]

 

143/4. These are the best ones

 

Anyone know the best STI to catch too?   

 

Seriously, I remember being in a stationary 142 on the up slow line of the WCML after leaving Preston towards Blackburn (Farringdon Jn) when a 125mph class 390 passes up on the Up fast line and the whole unit seems to rattle more than I've ever seen before. The driver comes over the PA and says:

 

'On behalf of Northern, I apologise for that disruption to your journey, it was caused by a modern, high-speed train going to London while we are on an old, uncomfortable train between two cities in the so-called Northern powerhouse. Thank you for travelling with Northern Rail'

 

Weirdly, there was a small applause coming from the other coach which I think was actually the guard 

[cheesysmith]

If you want to see what the HSFV chassis was capable of (the pacer chassis being a direct descendent of it) you need a time machine to before OTMR black boxes were fitted and 141113. That one was well overpowered. The speedo only goes upto 100mph, and I was tail end on it on a Sheffield to york service, when we were passed by a 158 on the fasts. Que rapd acceleration with a full power start and we overtook the 158 before the selby diversion junction. How fast? Not sure, as the speedo was well off the clock, so it was about 110. On properly maintained CWR, steady as a rock.

 

One benift of present rail structure is that secondary routes have had monies spent on them. A lot of ex regi rail routes have had lines relaid with CWR.

[jamesg]

​What a handsome well designed looking unit and it must be very popular with passengers who queue up to travel on them ,I bet there will be a big turnout to say good by when they finally are retired after such excellent service and providing passenger comforts unsurparsed by other stock.

The queues of eager passengers must be the reason 31A proposes preserving a three-car set.

[31A]

The queues of eager passengers must be the reason 31A proposes preserving a three-car set.

 

 

I just like 144 3-cars in particular, I think they're a very decent size of train for most secondary lines, and that unit turned up so often when I was train crew that it seems like an old friend!

[Butler Henderson]

Re Pacers and bends - the curve onto Crimple Viaduct between Pannal and Hornbeam Park, Harrogate, is one to clear the ear drums. IIRC the curve is that sharp power has to be applied to get a Pacer round it for fear of it becoming stuck on the curve

Edited November 2, 2017 by Butler Henderson

[w124bob]

As a S Yorks resident, I travel on the Northern ones a lot. The 144s seem to be in better condition than the 142s, although the seats tend to nobble your knees on a 144.

The ride is variable, and very sensitive to track quality I think.

On the Northern 142s, there's lots of dodgy trim and fittings. I've had to warn the passenger in front of me that their shoulder was about to get soaked when a rainstorm penetrated the window seals, and I've also photographed this piece of improvised maintenance:

Pacer cable ties.jpg

 

The Hope Valley services seem to get a disproportionate share of the ex-Merseyrail refurbs, with the horrible bolt upright 3+2 seats, which really give me backache after a few minutes.

The super-Pacer (refurbished 144) is interesting, brightly lit and clean when I've been on it, and seemingly less rattly, although the seats are a little thin.

 

Around here, they'e all being replaced in the next couple of years, mostly with 150s on the local services. I was on a refurbished Northern 150 the other day - OK, comfy, tidy and clean, but as others have said, if you want a window seat with a view, there's less choice on a 150.

 

Oh, has anyone mentioned the ear-splitting squealing from a Pacer on a corner?

A standard Newton Heath repair. There's nothing up there for a screw to grip.

[royaloak]

I forgot anouther fault. These would be the only train that in high winds on a embankment loose speed due to loss of traction. The high wind had caused them to lift off the rails and the wheels kept spinning up.

 

That indian rail version looks like the suspension is a direct copy of the pacer suspension. At least ours has doors.

You are seriously trying to say that the wind lifts the train off the track, really?

[eastwestdivide]

Dangerously close to the scrapyard, but still in service:

[peanuts]

Weapons of mass derision.

they were  known around the time of the  first gulf wars as "scuds " they would be despatched from victoria and god only knows where they would land  

[Mark Saunders]

they were  known around the time of the  first gulf wars as "scuds " they would be despatched from victoria and god only knows where they would land  

 

NO! 

 

That was the 158's!

[cheesysmith]

You are seriously trying to say that the wind lifts the train off the track, really?

 

Yes. . Pacers being so light would actually loose grip. 

[cheesysmith]

Remember sheffield 142 squadron moto- Bovine excreata confoundus mentus.

[DavidB-AU]

What a glorious sight!

 

Cheers

David

[Rivercider]

What a glorious sight!

 

Cheers

David

Was that the set that caught fire near Nailsea and Backwell one evening in 2004? (Two passengers and the conductor were treated for smoke inhalation)

 

cheers

[Reorte]

Yes. . Pacers being so light would actually loose grip. 

It was certainly a little scary going through Cowburn Tunnel in one once when something came the other way, the pressure wave really hit it hard.