Bridge bashing

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

As Sam mentioned above, there is now a test for towing a large trailer or caravan if the combined weight of car and trailer exceeds 3.5 ton. Those with a full licence before 1997 can drive anything up to 7.5 ton which I have done way back in days when we collected waste oil for delivery to the Festiniog Railway . . . . 

A sensible change, that. I've never towed a caravan but my licence allows me to without any further training. I don't think I'd want to try without it though.

[PhilJ W]

I could tow a caravan and drive anything up to 7:5 tonnes until I was 70. I could have kept them on the licence if I passed a medical but the £160 cost of the medical put me off.

[F-UnitMad]

4 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

As Sam mentioned above, there is now a test for towing a large trailer or caravan if the combined weight of car and trailer exceeds 3.5 ton. . . . . 

I didn't know that.  But what is the combined weight of a car & caravan these days, on average??

My HGV (OK, "LGV C+E" ) expired a few years ago now, after I got out of transport anyway. I still have 7.5t entitlement for some years yet, but the way things are probably wouldn't be allowed to drive one even if I wanted to, as my Digital Tacho card has now expired too, along with my CPC training hours. I've no inclination to tow a caravan, either!!

Edited June 21, 2021 by F-UnitMad

[johnofwessex]

5 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

As Sam mentioned above, there is now a test for towing a large trailer or caravan if the combined weight of car and trailer exceeds 3.5 ton. Those with a full licence before 1997 can drive anything up to 7.5 ton which I have done way back in days when we collected waste oil for delivery to the Festiniog Railway . . . . 

 

I wonder how many 'Post 1997' licence holders are aware that they need a towing licence, or if they do tow are properly qualified?

 

I suggest that there should be spot checks at Service Stations over the summer.

[boxbrownie]

15 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

I wonder how many 'Post 1997' licence holders are aware that they need a towing licence, or if they do tow are properly qualified?

 

I suggest that there should be spot checks at Service Stations over the summer.

I think quite a few do, certainly my Son knows and I am sure the lessons and test has changed so much now that the other classes of driving are well understood (by the teachers) and hopefully pointed out to the pupils, that’s how my Son was aware of it…..and he pointed it out to me as I was unaware it had changed being an old fart who could drive anything from a road roller to a lawn mower on the road, the number of classes on the back of my license makes it look like a mini eye test chart 

[johnofwessex]

9 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I think quite a few do, certainly my Son knows and I am sure the lessons and test has changed so much now that the other classes of driving are well understood (by the teachers) and hopefully pointed out to the pupils, that’s how my Son was aware of it…..and he pointed it out to me as I was unaware it had changed being an old fart who could drive anything from a road roller to a lawn mower on the road, the number of classes on the back of my license makes it look like a mini eye test chart 

 

My 19 year old son knows and seems to have a healthy sense of what he is capable off in a vehicle, but I suspect many either dont know or prefer not to comply with the rules

[Titan]

7 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

As Sam mentioned above, there is now a test for towing a large trailer or caravan if the combined weight of car and trailer exceeds 3.5 ton. 

 

You have to have quite a large combination to exceed 3.5 ton, most car and caravan combinations will be within it.  I used to tow a 1300kg 16 footer with my Freelander, which itself can't have been more than 2000kg gross, which under the rules would be well within the 3.5 ton limit.  What is worse is if someone wants a larger caravan, the rule encourages them to tow with a lighter car, so you can end up with a combination that is on the limit of the cars ability, with a driver who has not had any training...

 

I have had two caravans, my first an ancient but well equipped one although it did not have any form of stabiliser, and a larger more modern one (as above)  Both were completely stable up to 60mph, could not provoke a snake even if I tried - indeed the later one specifically stated it was designed to be towed at up to 81mph as on the continent you are allowed to. Of course I made sure they were loaded correctly.  Dread to think what the fuel consumption at 81mph would be though!

Edited June 21, 2021 by Titan

[Hobby]

4x4 with a twin axle caravan perhaps? 

[Michael Hodgson]

When I first got my licence, the road signs and the paperwork talked about heavy locomotives, light locomotives (I don't think BR would have let me drive light engine though) and I think the  provisional licence issued by Northumberland Country Council authorised me to drive a mowing machine controlled by a pedestrian with needing a qualified driver beside me.

[Titan]

32 minutes ago, Hobby said:

4x4 with a twin axle caravan perhaps? 

 

Perhaps, it depends.  The 1300kg one I towed was getting pretty close to the maximum weight you could have on a single axle, so one of the smaller twin axles would probably be just within the limit with the Freelander. However your average 4x4 + your average twin axle will almost certainly be over 3.5 tons.  In my opinion that leaves rather too many outfits that you don't need to take the test to tow.

 

It would be much better if you needed a test to tow more than 750kg, irrespective of the gross weight of the outfit.

[birdseyecircus]

The caravan club and the magazines recommend that your fully loaded van weighs no more than 85% of your tow cars kerb weight.

On a handful of occasions I have seen small suv's and cross overs that are not really a match for the van they are towing.

 

Paul

[johnofwessex]

Both my brothers are/were balloonists and were quite emphatic about the need for a vehicle that could stop whatever was being towed safely.

[Michael Hodgson]

17 hours ago, Titan said:

 

You have to have quite a large combination to exceed 3.5 ton, most car and caravan combinations will be within it.  I used to tow a 1300kg 16 footer with my Freelander, which itself can't have been more than 2000kg gross, which under the rules would be well within the 3.5 ton limit.  What is worse is if someone wants a larger caravan, the rule encourages them to tow with a lighter car, so you can end up with a combination that is on the limit of the cars ability, with a driver who has not had any training...

 

Something like this ?

https://www.hdforums.com/how-tos/slideshows/things-people-haul-with-their-harleys-435282

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Something like this ?

https://www.hdforums.com/how-tos/slideshows/things-people-haul-with-their-harleys-435282

Why does that not surprise me in the slightest? 

[Titan]

2 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Both my brothers are/were balloonists and were quite emphatic about the need for a vehicle that could stop whatever was being towed safely.

 

Trailers over 750kg have brakes, and if they are working properly the tow vehicle does not do any stopping of the trailer, beyond the comparatively miniscule force required to push the coupling in and apply them.  The result being that stopping distance is only increased by just a few feet.  Check out this emergency stop comparison from 62mph:

 

 

What is interesting is that the weight of the caravan keeps the rear of the tow vehicle firmly on the ground, so that the rear wheels don't lock up, and if anything makes it look more composed than the nosediving solo vehicle.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Titan

[SamThomas]

On 21/06/2021 at 12:41, PhilJ W said:

I could tow a caravan and drive anything up to 7:5 tonnes until I was 70. I could have kept them on the licence if I passed a medical but the £160 cost of the medical put me off.

 

Shop around - there are many companies doing "Saturday Morning Specials" for the £40/50 mark.

Edited June 22, 2021 by SamThomas
Typo.

[SamThomas]

20 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

I wonder how many 'Post 1997' licence holders are aware that they need a towing licence, or if they do tow are properly qualified?

 

I suggest that there should be spot checks at Service Stations over the summer.

VOSA/VDSA will be getting more stringent as they move to being privatised.

[SamThomas]

At some point the rules regarding weight changed - at one time it was the actual weights of the combination at the time that mattered.

 

Now, it is the plated weights of the combination that matter.

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Why does that not surprise me in the slightest? 

Especially number 7?

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

 

Shop around - there are many companies doing "daturday Morning Specials" for the £40/50 mark.

Bit late now, that was nearly three years ago, I've just renewed my licence for the next three years. I don't really need the extra's on my licence anyway.

[SamThomas]

20 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Bit late now, that was nearly three years ago, I've just renewed my licence for the next three years. I don't really need the extra's on my licence anyway.

Could be useful to others though.

[rab]

I remember my father saying that when he left the REME in 1946,

he had an 'all groups' licence.  He got quite annoyed that,

as the years went by, various groups were removed.

(His biggest disappointment came at the age of 87,

 when he lost his licence completely due to failing eye sight).

Edited June 22, 2021 by rab

[RJS1977]

I was quite disappointed, having failed my test pre the 97 changes and passed after, to discover that that delay meant I wasn't entitled to drive traction engines!

 

(Not that I've ever had opportunity to, other than a miniature one round the RSME car park!)

[PhilJ W]

I passed my test in January 1968 on the second attempt. If I had wanted to as soon as I was 21 I could have driven a heavy goods vehicle. The only vehicles you needed a special licence for were buses and coaches.

[Mike Bellamy]

On 21/06/2021 at 21:41, Titan said:

 

  The 1300kg one I towed was getting pretty close to the maximum weight you could have on a single axle,

 

My single axle Coachman VIP has a weight of 1479kg and a max permissible payload of 155kg taking the total overall weight limit to 1634kg. Towed by a Ford Kuga with a weight of 1790kg and a max permissible weight of 2250kg.

 

If you think some railway modellers are a bit obsessive about the number of rivets, you should look at caravan forums about weight limits and licence categories - RMweb is so calm in comparison . . . ! !

.