Please help me shortlist a DCC system

[Tony_S]

When I was last active, a lot of people had Lenz. Is there any reason why they barely feature in the replies?

 

I'll be sure to test at leat a couple of systems before buying.

I am happy to give you an opinion on Lenz. I bought mine as that was the system used at a club I was a member of for a few years. I also have a few Multimaus handsets attached to my Lenz system and have the USB and ethernet interfaces. I never use the Lenz system for programming decoders, I have a separate Sprog system.

Now I don't have a problem using the Lenz handset or the Multimaus (insert plural!) to drive trains but I do tend to use the Multimaus to operate points. I even managed to use it to control my Heljan turntable, I dont think i even considered the Lenz handset for that task. So, I am happy with it. It does everything I want. However if I were buying a new system I would consider some new updated fully featured system. Unfortunately I am not sure what they are!

Your final sentence is the best idea, look at what people are using and try some.

Best wishes

Tony

Edited January 29, 2018 by Tony_S

[njee20]

What would be interesting to know, is the difference between the Piko Smart control made by ESU and ESU's own offering!!!

Judging by shots of the CabControl and the Mobile Control 2 (which is exactly the same hardware, just ‘tethered’ to an ECoS) I’d say virtually nothing! The UI looks identical.

 

Only thing that I’ve found (very slightly) inconvenient is that you can’t choose icons for the locos as you can with an ECoS (and have them display on a MC2). But no idea if the CabControl will be different, I’d hazard a guess it’ll work like the Smart Control rather than the ECoS.

Edited January 29, 2018 by njee20

[Oldddudders]

P-lease! I have an iPhone and an iPad Air, as well as the iMac I am working on right now, so have some experience with touch sensitive devices. But the Digitrax system I have used for 20 years provides throttles with knobs, and that's just fine, thanks.

 

I understand a respect your need to defend your investment in NCE however the OP doesn’t have a system at all and is looking for alternatives.

 

 

NCE? Did I mention NCE? Widely sold and successful brand, so well worth looking at, I'm sure. Digitrax, which I chose in 1998 to replace the limited-scope Roco 'Digital Is Cool' starter set, continues to serve me well, thanks. And, as my wife will tell you, I do not trust my iPhone 6 to do much beyond WhatsApp, and always use a stylus on that and the iPad. The idea of controlling expensive locos with something so imprecise is implausible.

[Ravenser]

Thank you all for some very useful replies and suggestions. On looking at all the options you have suggested the Powercab is very appealing. The main reason is that it seems like one of the easiest to start off with. Is that assumption correct? I also like the fact it's not a massive investment so I can always change systems after a couple of years if I need more flexibility or feel I'm missing any features.

 

Can I plug the additional cab straight into the Powercab, or do I then need to upgrade?

 

When I was last active, a lot of people had Lenz. Is there any reason why they barely feature in the replies?

 

I'll be sure to test at leat a couple of systems before buying.

 

NCE's documentation is good - clear and comprehensive. The Powercab will take one additional Powercab or cab throttle as a plug in. There is also potential to upgrade via the SmartBooster , and the Powercab can be used as an additional throttle on a PowerPro system.

 

Other systems do exist - but this is to answer your specific questions.

 

The reason why Lenz barely feature is that nothing whatsoever has changed on the Set100 system in at least a decade, and it is at least twice the price of many of the systems being mentioned . It's also something of a pig to use, with you needing to dig down though tiers of menus to reach some things , like accessories The Multimaus is Lenz - but that was their last new DCC system

Edited January 29, 2018 by Ravenser

[johnb]

I tried several systems before I settled on NCE several years back. Two things finally decided me on that. One, I liked the way it handled. Two, it was for me reasonably priced for the range of facilities it provided.

 

I have used it for some years on exhibition layouts without problems. I did buy a spare but so far it's not been necessary. It's me being cautious as a failure of my only controller would be very embarrassing at a show.

I also have the Cab04 (now it's the later Cab06) controller which works as a second unit.

 

In my opinion it is essential for you to try out alternatives as it is very much a personal thing depending on your budget and how you like the handling and the operation.

 

Do let us knoww how you get on.

 

John

[Fen End Pit]

Off the wall suggestion..

 

Consider joining MERG and building your own

 

https://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/dcc.php

 

David

[Dagworth]

 

When I was last active, a lot of people had Lenz. Is there any reason why they barely feature in the replies?

 

 

I've had four different DCC systems, ZTC, Lenz, ESU ECoS and Bachmann Dynamis and I come back to my Lenz set 100 every time, bombproof reliability.

 

Andi

[Phil S]

Probably the cheapest starting method is to buy a Roco Multimaus + Amplifier + SMPS taken by a dealer from a starter set - these have regularly appeared on Ebay  from 65 -100 GBP for a complete starting system - and the cabled Multimaus  can then be used with the Z21 or z21  or on another Expressnet System.   Similar starting packages are sometimes available with the WHITE z21 Box and power supply taken from the latest starter sets.

 

The Roco Amplifier, if you buy a 2nd 'set' can then be used as a Booster - for 2 separate Power Districts or separate layouts: to use the Amplifier as a Booster there are 2 methods:

1/ Do NOT plug anything into the 'master' and Slave' sockets of the Amplifier you are going to use as a Booster - but DO connect its independent power supply. Then plug a 4-pole connecting cable between the 'Booster' sockets on each box.  You now have a Master System (in the Maus plugged into the Master Socket -usinf a 6-core cable) and upto 31 more handsets daisy chainable on the Slave Socket (Slave only need a 4-core cable, but with the 6pin plug/socket.  An external Y-splitter on the 4-pole/4pin Booster cable can be used to add up to 4 boosters.

 

2/ Alternatively, add the 'missing' booster socket to you Amplifier/Booster by opening it up and soldering it into the obvious place marked on the  board - but this will cancel your warranty 8-)  You then have both 'In' and 'Out' Booster Sockets [passive loop through] as per the version sold as a Booster = JUST DO NOT USE the Master/Slave sockets on the box used as a Booster !!!

 

When trying out different controllers - see how easily they are used single-handed, and without looking at the buttons, how informative the menu displays are, and how easy it is to transfer a loco from one controller to another  (or actually, the other way round - TAKE coontrol from another controller ) and how easy it is to program CVs  [ It is NOT necessary to READ CVs during writing - in fact it slows down the process considerably !!!! - but a Cabled Multimaus WILL read back CVs IF it is plugged into a MultiCerntralePro  or a Z21 /z21 ... or the original 'Rocomotion' add-on box - as these provide the extra connections required. 

 

I'll admit I'm biased; having about 6+ Red Multimaus still  (bought via multiple Digital Starter Sets), with  4 Wireless Multimaus Pros (for use with 2 of  the discontinued MultiCentralePro) and now 2 Wireless LAN BLACK Multimaus for my Z21 .... having not made great use of the phone/tablet method of control... partly because my first 'Smartphoine had too small a display for the Loco video, and an iPad was too heavy to cart around - and couldn't be used single handed.   I try to keep the controllers specifically for their respective layouts to save copying the Library Files between them each different layout we use - and that includes G_Scale when on the LEVEL ... a bigger booster would be needed for G Scale on a gradient !!!

 

(I have owned  [Zero-1 since launch] then  LGB MTS,  ZTC-511 and the small hand controller, Bachmann EZ, (a start set) ,,  Massorh Dimax [aimed at LGB users, and 2 locos/handset - buttons light up in the darkness which is useful in a garden at night), Roco Maus 2 Multimauses + Rocomotion PC interface, MultimausPros (First Roco wireless option with MultiCentralePro, and now Lan Multimaus with Z21. Also a Sprog2 if  I need to record CVs , and  OpenDCC computer interfaces (kits)   

It is most important with original Roco Mulimauses or Maus 2 systems to replace the transformer (unregulated '16V' o/p) with a SMPS 'brick'/laptop power supply of 18V 3.5-4A to have a maintained 16Vdcc ontrack ( for about 12V reaching the motors) - compared to an H&M 'analogue' traditional controller which give 28V at 100Hz full wave rectified dc on its 12V output, off load.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Phil S

[AndrewC]

For what it's worth I'll throw my 2p worth in. 

 

24 years ago, I'd have recommended Lenz or Digitrax depending on local availability. 10 years ago I'd have recommended Digitrax as I found the Lenz handheld throttles a pain in the ar$s when operating points and stupidly expensive to expand beyond the basic set. 5 years ago it would have been NCE. Today, I'd (and just did) go with the Digikeijs DR5000. For £150 it does more than £300 worth of Lenz gear. Add a Roco 10813 wireless mouse to it for less than £90 and you have a full walk around system that can be plugged straight into a computer for JMRI or panels. If you have a smart phone or tablet the Z21 app is a free download so you can have a second throttle for nowt. The unit has a built in access point (wifi) that you can set to Z21 protocol. With the Roco wifi multimaus, you get the knob style control as well as the option to plug in any other throttle you like. Yes it's fairly new and there are some interesting quirks but overall its pretty much plug and play. (when configuring the LAN or WIFI you have to plug the unit into a router, but it can run stand alone afterwards)

[Guest]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but I replaced a temperemental NCE PowerCab system with Uhlenbrock's Daisy 2 about a year ago. Easiest system I've used and intuitive with the icon-driven menu system. More features than I'll ever use, too. Using Digitrax panel-mount interfaces, the single unit can be positioned around the layout. Has performed faultlessly. Available from A&H. Control is a very personal thing, I guess, but I have to agree that the traditional control wheel is a bonus. Sliders, buttons, and God forbid, touchscreen control leaves me cold.

 

 

[Mike Storey]

You have been given a list of the usual suspects, which is fine, but before you make up your mind, and you don't want to spend squillions, take a look at this British made DCC controller, with very easy to use large, touch screen base and hand-held controller with a knob:  https://www.signatrak.co.uk/products/ace-dcc-controller-accessories/dcs2044-ace-15

 

Not many people stock it yet, although it has been around for a few years now, progressively developing, which is why most retailers will only push what they currently stock (naturally enough). I have the original ACE, which is fine for me (I also use a ZTC 611), and the back up service has been outstanding for upgrades and software updates. The ACE 2 has upgraded interfaces with other systems and stuff I don't need, but you may want later.

[AndrewC]

Just a comment that is slightly off topic, but interesting to note the resistance to touch screen throttles by a few people. I know it is all personal choice and I'm not belittling those who prefer a physical controller, but at a recent Freemo meet out of the 20 or so people that operated over the 2 days, only 1 used a traditional controller. All the others used phones or tablets. 

[pendlerail]

Another vote for Power Cab for me, I have used Select, Multimaus and Lenz, still prefer the Power Cab, but suggest you get to a show or shop and try them if possible.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...When I was last active, a lot of people had Lenz. Is there any reason why they barely feature in the replies?...

 Probably too happy operating to be bothered! As one who simply needs 'something that works' I can see why the offering hasn't been altered. Simple and neat. (For those wanting a knob, plug in a multimaus.) Coming up to fifteen years near daily use now and never a problem. it's an economy purchase...

[Revolution Mike]

For a cheap entry point I think the Multimaus is cracking value.

 

The Digikeijs DR5000 would probably be my system of choice if I was buying now - so much flexibility to expand at a very reasonable price.

 

For all the naysayers about touch screens - I'm more than happy to use a phone or similar to control locos (it really is pretty simple), but it comes down to personal preference.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Steven B]

 - Need to be able to run more than one loco simultaneously from one cab/throttle

 

Is Digitrax still the only system to support this functionality - none of the other systems mentioned so far have two physical knobs, one for each of two locos/consists. This means you don't need to recall or re-enter previously used addresses quite so often.

 

Utimately the best recommendation is for you to play before you pay - i.e. try out as many systems as you can before spending any money.

 

Steven B.

[ModellingMatt]

Thank you for everyones' continuing help. I'll be ringing up a couple of reatilers soon to have a chat and book a trying out session. I'll let you know how I get on!

[njee20]

Just a comment that is slightly off topic, but interesting to note the resistance to touch screen throttles by a few people. I know it is all personal choice and I'm not belittling those who prefer a physical controller, but at a recent Freemo meet out of the 20 or so people that operated over the 2 days, only 1 used a traditional controller. All the others used phones or tablets. 

I have a phone or tablet welded to my hand virtually all of the time, being a young Millennial and that, yet I really wanted something with physical buttons for DCC, for the simple reason that it's easier to use without looking at the screen. Likewise I find my car stereo annyoing, being touch screen, as I have to look at it to do most things (those that can't be done via the physical buttons on the steering wheel at least).

 

It's not a fear of, or reticence toward, touch screen devices, just what I personally think is best suited to the purpose. I use JMRI with my SmartControl and have WiThrottle, so it's an option should I want additional control, but I certainly like the tactility of real buttons and knobs. Matron.

[ianLMS]

Another vote for the z21 and Multimaus --- Try www.scograil.co.uk for the z21 White, with Multimaus handset (lovely handset, including knob)  for £109.95, add a Wi-fi router for £34.95 (optional if you want to control via tablet/phone) and hey presto, you have a fully fledged DCC system ready to go for under £150 brand new. I use the multimaus to operate the loco's and my Samsung android tablet for my accessories & points as it has a layout diagram like a schematic. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Even old scrotes can use touch screens....

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

What would be interesting to know, is the difference between the Piko Smart control made by ESU and ESU's own offering!!!

 

Judging by shots of the CabControl and the Mobile Control 2 (which is exactly the same hardware, just ‘tethered’ to an ECoS) I’d say virtually nothing! The UI looks identical......

 

 

As far as I can tell, the difference between the Piko SmartControl and the ESU CabControl, is that the latter has an (up to) 7 amp track output capability, as opposed to the SmartControl's (up to) 5 amps.

The packaging and branding is obviously different too.

 

Both use the standard ESU Mobile Control 2 handsets.

 

 

.

[Talltim]

Just a comment that is slightly off topic, but interesting to note the resistance to touch screen throttles by a few people. I know it is all personal choice and I'm not belittling those who prefer a physical controller, but at a recent Freemo meet out of the 20 or so people that operated over the 2 days, only 1 used a traditional controller. All the others used phones or tablets.

Operating at a modular meet is a bit different to operating a normal layout. You tend to keep the same loco/s for a long period, point operation is usually local (not DCC) and a wireless controller is very useful when the layout is hundreds of feet long.

As a complete novice to using WiiThrottle I found the bits I needed to know very easy to pick up at a meet (I even downloaded the app when I got there!)

Edited January 30, 2018 by Talltim