BluebellModeller Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Hello all, You might know me from my Bluebell layout thread. Sadly I am not as passionate about that project as I once was, so I am switching it up and doing something completely different. I have a 4x8 space in which I'd like to have either a completely narrow gauge layout or a dual-gauge with predominantely narrow gauge... anyone know where I could find layout ideas/plans? Google isn't giving me very many good results. Thanks in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 How about looking through the narrow gauge forum on here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/318-narrow-gauge-modelling/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Narrow gauge railways tend to have rather less truck with the red tape that governs standard gauge lines. So station layouts may be simpler, more appealing. You don't specify a prototype, although Peco, Heljan and Bachmann seem to be on the case currently for UK models. This is a set of station track plans for a flourishing 90-mile metre-gauge network in the German Harz area. They have more than 20 steam locos, including 17 2-10-2s. The fact that they are from overseas doesn't invalidate the concepts of platform layouts and loops etc. Note one station actually has a full 180 degree balloon-loop! http://www.dampfromantik-harz.de/gleisplaene/gp_wer.html Edited February 27, 2018 by Oldddudders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2018 Hello all, You might know me from my Bluebell layout thread. Sadly I am not as passionate about that project as I once was, so I am switching it up and doing something completely different. I have a 4x8 space in which I'd like to have either a completely narrow gauge layout or a dual-gauge with predominantely narrow gauge... anyone know where I could find layout ideas/plans? Google isn't giving me very many good results. Thanks in advance! Far be it for me to recommend another forum, but would be worth registering with the Narrow Gauge Railway Modelling forum: http://ngrm-online.com/forums/ Lots of inspiration there. I'm assuming--if the Bluebell had floated your boat--then you're interested in English railways for modelling? If you're looking at using RTR (and an English narrow gauge railway) then the Ashover Light Railway might be worth a look for inspiration (using upcoming Bachmann models): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashover_Light_Railway Would make a change to Welsh ng but there's options there too with the new Bachmann models :-) if you're up for crossing the border... Or is it some other part of the 'Narrow Gauge World' that appeals? This is a good mag with a mix of modelling and prototype features: https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/narrow-gauge-world all the best, Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluebellModeller Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Freelance design is really what I'm going for here. So these are all awesome solutions. Thanks guys! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2018 If you register for NGRM look for the serial doodlers thread, although it's been a bit trashed by Photobucket's greed on linking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I have often thought about doing an NG 009 line. Its just too fiddly for my ageing fingers and eyes. PD Hancock's book on his Craig and Mertonford sort of provided some inspiration. 8X4 is a good size for a 009 layout and you should be able to model almost the whole line if you get inventive and create a model not a rabbit warren. Using the CJ Freezer books should provide some inspiration, Generally apart from the IoM the NG lines had simple 1 platform termini, some had raised platforms, most had several crossing loops, Ffestiniog and L&B had quite extensive works. Most NG wagons can be hand shunted easily so little need for dedicated shunting locos, so a couple of termini, a couple of crossing loops, somewhere to load wagons, quarry? and somewhere to off load them, either to Std gauge or Ship, a yard for spare stock and a works and you have a complete system. Sorry to wander off topic but Most British narrow gauge lines were built as light railways with 25mph speed limits and relaxed rules on signalling facing point locks etc. I dont know when the act came in but 1895 sounds about right. The Welsh lines, Corris, Tallylyn, Ffestiniog pre dated his but I believe the Vale of Rheidol, Lynton and Barnstaple and Campbelltown and Macrihanish were all around 1900. These last 3 had neat sets of matching coaches and locos, though each had an oddity, the VofR a 2-4-0T the L&B a 2-4-2T and the Campbelltown a couple of 0-4-0Ts. Each had its own character and this is where I fear most UK mainland NG layouts fall down by mixing locos from different lines and having a traffic frequency like the Glasgow Underground. I would try to keep to a set loading gauge and keep away from mixing 009 Ffestiniog and Tallylyn locos with L&B etc The difference in gauge woudn't worry me but everyone knows these locos, Going really freelance but keeping Peco bogie stock and Heljan locos either off the shelf or repainted is going to be a lot cheaper and less fiddly than trying to run long trains of 1 ton slate wagons etc The L&B trains were fairly short usually as the L&B locos had a max load of 4 1/2 coaches, though they did sometimes double head 9 coach formations, While the Ffestiniog delighted in running monstrous rakes of slate wagons infrequently, using its Fairies as main line locos and 0-4-0s as trip locos and shunters at least in its last pre preservation years. I think to add variety to a loco fleet I would consider kit bashing of scratch building some freelance locos and stock built to the same loading gauge as the RTR. The Dapol Pug and 04 shunter have formed the basis of many 009 monstrosities, but the old Triang TT gauge Jinty 009 ised appeals to me... Just remember there is not really enough room for inside cylinders on 2ft gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 As David suggests, CJ Freezer's plan books should provide some inspiration. Many of CJF's smaller plans are very cramped as standard gauge layouts but would be quite delightful in 009 where sharp curves and short trains are much less of a problem. Early editions of 60 Plans contain a wide variety of 6x4 layouts, some squeezing two terminii and a passing station into the space. Ideal for a self-contained NG line. Stretching to 8x4 certainly wouldn't hurt any of them. A few designs in Track Plans are also suitable (as CJF himself notes for at least one 7x4 plan). Freezer also offers a few designs specifically for NG, but I wouldn't confine my attention to these by any means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) You don't have to go as large as 8x4. Here's a Talyllyn based plan on 5x2 Paul's various track plans by -salisburyASC- Freelance room plan on two levels PaulRhB 009 plans by -salisburyASC- Or something a tad bigger based on an IoM type system PaulRhB 009 plans by -salisburyASC- Edited February 28, 2018 by PaulRhB 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2018 In your own country, NG prototypes are legion. Maine 2-footers, or maybe the Rio Grande Southern wye with snowsheds at Lizard Head? And while we tend to think of OO/HO with 9 or 12mm gauge, even in your space On30 can still be worth operating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 You did not mention a scale. You may learn something about On30 by looking at my threads below. On30 and 0-16.5 take up about the same room as OO and is the same gauge if you have some track lying around.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 At the risk of stating the obvious, look at real narrow gauge locations of the type you wish to model, their layouts and trackplans, and how they are/were operated. A very common mistake of narrow gauge modellers is to make complex track plans and have 3 or 4 trains on view simultaneously, then have a twisty route diving in and out of mountains and over bridges. Most narrow gauge lines were built in mountainous country which was sparsely populated, and had very little traffic; low capital expenditure, and low overheads were the order of the day, culminating in the Colonel Stevens type of operation which may have pushed the principle a bit far. Termini should be no more than a run around and a couple of sidings, and the other end a simple run around loop msybe with a line continuing to a quarry (this is very much the Welsh model). The Ffestiniog is a bit of an exception, being conceived as a narrow gauge example of main line practice of the day, with proper signalling and some terrifying speeds on the gravity slate trains, but the rule was very much of cheap railways built at low cost; tunnels and bridges were avoided because of the expense. I cannot think at the moment of any British narrow gauge railway with tunnels except the Ffestiniog and the Welsh Highland, and the ones on the WHR are short unlined rock cuts to save money. I am sure someone with greater erudition will correct me, but tunnels the size and cost of Moelwyn are unique to the Ffestiniog, and they built it twice! Most ran one train a day most of the time, and operations with 2 or 3 locos, one in traffic, one spare, and maybe a third under overhaul, were common. The spare might be steamed on market days for either a double header or two train service. The model you often see at exhibitions, with mulitple trains running around all over the place in and out of mountains while the unknown luxury of a station pilot sorts out empty stock at the terminus, is not very convincing, and pushing it a bit even for modern image Porthmadog, a station busier now than at any time in it's near 200 years of existence! I think it probably results from the motivation for the layout in the first place; some modellers see narrow gauge as a means of squeezing a quart into a pint pot; short trains, sharp curves, and a lack of realisation that a freelance layout needs more discipline than normal to be believable, not less attracts people who really want a main line layout but don't have room for it. This is meant as an observation not a criticism! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin30762 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Hi Bluebell modeller welcome to the world of Narrow Gauge if you want to do either 4mm or 7mm it would be worth looking at either the 009 society or the 7mm Association for ideas, the 7mm Association produces a number of loco and rolling stock plan books. One publication that might interest you and that is the narrow gauge and Industrial railway modelling review website www.narrowgaugeandindustrial.co.uk Also as you don't say where you live may I suggest you contact the Greenwich and District NGRS at http://www.gdngrs.com/ as we have weekly meetings some in Croydon and others in Essex we can give you all sorts of advice and help. Two prototypes worth going to see one is the Leighton Buzzard Narrow Gauge Railway and also just as interesting is the Amberley Industrial museum in Sussex just google both locations and you should come up with useful info on both. Just hope this all helps. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) A very common mistake of narrow gauge modellers is to make complex track plans and have 3 or 4 trains on view simultaneously, then have a twisty route diving in and out of mountains and over bridges. Most narrow gauge lines were built in mountainous country which was sparsely populated, and had very little traffic; low capital expenditure, and low overheads were the order of the day, culminating in the Colonel Stevens type of operation which may have pushed the principle a bit far. ... I think it probably results from the motivation for the layout in the first place; some modellers see narrow gauge as a means of squeezing a quart into a pint pot; short trains, sharp curves, and a lack of realisation that a freelance layout needs more discipline than normal to be believable, not less attracts people who really want a main line layout but don't have room for it. This is meant as an observation not a criticism! Absolutely agree with this -- I do think narrow gauge layouts (and indeed standard gauge!) benefit from a 'less-is-more' philosophy, and looking carefully at actual examples of narrow gauge lines and their track-plans / formations. There are so many really excellent books on narrow gauge railways, such as those by J I C Boyd, for lines in Wales especially, and by publishers such as Oakwood, Plateway, Twelveheads and Wild Swan, among many others, for NG lines across Britain and Ireland--I find the Titfield Thunderbolt Bookshop has a very good selection of these books on minor railways, and a first class mail order service: http://www.titfield.co.uk/Shop.htm The great thing about so many of these publications on NG lines is the use of detailed and large-scale maps and plans of the stations and yards, showing the layout of running lines, signalling etc--really crucial for the modeller, and--as mentioned by The Johnster--revealing the rather sparse look of many narrow gauge systems (in Ireland and Britain at least) of the past, which I think is what gives them their enduring charm and appeal, and attractiveness as inspiration for modelling. The most effective narrow gauge layouts I have seen, I think, are those such as Andy Cundick's "Llanfair" (exhibited in 2017 at the Larkrail Exhibition--http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124321-larkrail-2017/),and Eddie & Rachael Field's layout of Vale of Rheidol's Devil's Bridge (https://en-gb.facebook.com/DevilsBridge009/), that was (I think) featured in the Railway Modeller last year, both of which manage to convey this 'sparseness' of the prototype superbly (coupled with fantastic detailed modelling of course!). Anyway, good luck with your layout and keep us posted! all the best, Keith Edited March 2, 2018 by tractionman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 This is the kind of NG layout I mean, picture of "Llanfair" taken in 2017 at Larkrail... cue pensive looking blokes and top quality modelling: cheers, Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Most British narrow gauge lines were built as light railways with 25mph speed limits and relaxed rules on signalling facing point locks etc. Most narrow gauge lines were built in mountainous country which was sparsely populated, and had very little traffic; low capital expenditure, and low overheads were the order of the day, culminating in the Colonel Stevens type of operation which may have pushed the principle a bit far. Both of these quotes assume that you wish to model a common carrier narrow gauge line. Most narrow gauge lines in the UK were not this type of system. Most of them were industrial systems which were the 19th century equivalent of industrial plant and whilst they could be small systems with only 1 or two shunting locos some of them were very far from the sleepy country branchline type of operation promoted by the light railways acts. Dinorwic and Penhryn quarries both operated large fleets of shunting locos. Bowaters paper works had a moderate fleet as did some of the ironstone railways in Northamptonshire and the Furzebrook railway in Dorset. The various railways belonging to the military such as Woolwich arsenal, Chattenden & Upnor Railway and Chatham dockyard included some very busy systems. It's worth having a look at these links to Industrial narrow gauge and Military narrow gauge railways to get an idea of what was out there for possible subjects. Edited March 3, 2018 by asmay2002 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 NG in the U.K. And Ireland varied from small hand trollies on watercress beds and quarries to almost mainline systems like the Isle of Mann and Irish 3ft systems. I'd suggest finding photos of what you like and researching those lines as the best way. I'd guess there are pictures that inspired this interest and there's some basic features you want. I'd list those and see what pictures or railways people suggest to look at 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin30762 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 You don't have to go as large as 8x4. Here's a Talyllyn based plan on 5x2 Paul's various track plans by -salisburyASC- Freelance room plan on two levels PaulRhB 009 plans by -salisburyASC- Or something a tad bigger based on an IoM type system PaulRhB 009 plans by -salisburyASC- Paul I like the IOMR based plan what size did you envisage this to be built in? lets say for 00n3. Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) Paul I like the IOMR based plan what size did you envisage this to be built in? lets say for 00n3. Colin The small divisions are 3ft board joins. It was 9x12ft overall. There are five 3x2 boards & two 3x3 boards. Edited April 4, 2018 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) Of course you can go bigger 12ft diameter Paul's various track plans by -salisburyASC- 8x16ft PaulRhB 009 plans by -salisburyASC- Edited April 4, 2018 by PaulRhB 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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