Little Loco Company - Class 15

[The Nth Degree]

They look very good. The only mistake I've noted is that Finsbury Park is 34G, not 32B as on the sheet. Also D8202 was scrapped with the number on one nose end at least, but it was a slightly different style to the one on the sheet. Don't know if or when it changed. See the photo in the link below to see the difference.

https://flic.kr/p/axc89a

 

I also did a table of the final liveries carried by the Class 15's based on all the photos I could find. this was put on Wibbles, "EMgauge 70's" website here.

 

http://emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_class15.html

 

Modelers might find it useful when deciding on the livery of their loco.

 

Paul J.

I'll change the shed code, thank you.

 

I did notice the nose D was later changed to the old style serif D later, but before that it had the D as pictured. I only have space for one so I used that one. I may be able to squeeze in the serif D somewhere.

 

I didn't know you had compiled the livery list - that is an essential resource for any Class 15 enthusiast and I was going to recommend it in the owner manual.

 

I don't suppose you are equally enthusiastic about Class 21, 22 and 24 are you?...

[Swindon 123]

 

I don't suppose you are equally enthusiastic about Class 21, 22 and 24 are you?...

I'm not really into Class 21's and haven't really looked into them. There is a lot of discussion on them and their liveries on the Transition Diesels Liveries sub group. I did start to do one for the class 22's, but found out that Downendian had already done a comprehensive one that can be found in the Class 22 liveries thread in the Diesel Hydraulic group in Special Interests. The relavent post can be found here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51518-class-22-detail-variation/?p=600468

 

I did start to do one for the Class 24's, but soon realised that it was going to be a mammoth task, so just started to collect all the photos I could find of them and build up a photographic library to base my models on. A task that continues to this day.

 

Paul J.

[The Nth Degree]

I did start to do one for the Class 24's, but soon realised that it was going to be a mammoth task, so just started to collect all the photos I could find of them and build up a photographic library to base my models on. A task that continues to this day.

 

Paul J.

Thanks Paul, I may call on that photo library to add to my own, if you don't mind.

 

Regarding the Class 15, there's only one problem left to solve, and I've tried several sources but I've had no luck. If you know what was printed on the circled notices I would be eternally grateful. Just about every shot that shows what may have been there is overexposed and is whited out. One thing I have ruled out is recommended tyre pressures!

 

[F-UnitMad]

I don't suppose you are equally enthusiastic about Class 21, 22 and 24 are you?...

Yayyyy!!!

In my best Black Country... "Ah tode yer, day I..??!!"

[JeffP]

Is there any news on the loco that started all this, the 03 in kit form?

[south_tyne]

Yayyyy!!!

In my best Black Country... "Ah tode yer, day I..??!!"

Hold your horses Jordan, we need the next small scale UK sourced project to arrive first

(says the man with everything crossed that it will his beloved Ruston 48ds )

Edited September 26, 2016 by south_tyne

[Swindon 123]

Thanks Paul, I may call on that photo library to add to my own, if you don't mind.

 

Regarding the Class 15, there's only one problem left to solve, and I've tried several sources but I've had no luck. If you know what was printed on the circled notices I would be eternally grateful. Just about every shot that shows what may have been there is overexposed and is whited out. One thing I have ruled out is recommended tyre pressures!

 

ref.jpg

This is going to be a complete guess on my part, but based on their position on he solebar I think they might be as follows. (I've borrowed you original photo and annotated it to make it easier to understand.

 

Circle A.   LH label, No 1 bogie. A side.  RH label, Coolant filler.

Circle B.   LH label, Main Reservoir Drain.  RH label, Main Reservoir Isolating.

Circle C.   LH label, Sump drain.  RH label,   Fuel Filler.

Circle D.   No 2 bogie A side.

 

That is pure guess work on my part, but I have reasonable confidence in the labeling for Circle C which looks to be repeated on the other side of the loco. I'm reasonably confident about the labeling of the No1 Bogie A side & No 2 Bogie A side in circles A & D, as they also seem to be repeated on the other side as well but with a letter B instead of A. Circle B labeling is a bit of guess work, but as there look to be white air pipes nearby it seems a logical choice. Only one of the labels is repeated on the other side in the same location, which may just be another Main Reservoir Drain. On the other side where Circle A is there are three labels close together. Two will most probably annotated as on this side with the extra one being Coolant Drain. 

 

The other people to talk to who may have a much better idea of what was on the notices is theClass 15 Preservation Society, who are restoring D8233. Their contact page can be found here, http://www.d8233.org.uk/about.htm

 

Hope the above is of help.

 

Paul J.

[The Nth Degree]

Hello Paul, the C15PS are on the case too. In fact, they have been deeply involved in the project from the start – I'm donating up to £12,500 toward the restoration of D8233.

 

I'll see what they say when they get back to me.

Steve

[delticfan]

Hi Steve, been out of the rail modelling loop for a couple of months, these decals look great, any update on a release date ish.

[The Nth Degree]

Thank you. I'm hoping that the agreement I have with the factory will be honoured and they will be ready by the end of November.

[Scale7JB]

Personally I'm a fan of methfix or water slide as they're easy to move around to get to the right position, and if you get it wrong you can lift them again.

 

Just my two penneth worth..

 

JB.

[The Nth Degree]

This is going to be a complete guess on my part, but based on their position on he solebar I think they might be as follows. (I've borrowed you original photo and annotated it to make it easier to understand.

Class 15 labels.jpg

 

Circle A.   LH label, No 1 bogie. A side.  RH label, Coolant filler.

Circle B.   LH label, Main Reservoir Drain.  RH label, Main Reservoir Isolating.

Circle C.   LH label, Sump drain.  RH label,   Fuel Filler.

Circle D.   No 2 bogie A side.

 

That is pure guess work on my part, but I have reasonable confidence in the labeling for Circle C which looks to be repeated on the other side of the loco. I'm reasonably confident about the labeling of the No1 Bogie A side & No 2 Bogie A side in circles A & D, as they also seem to be repeated on the other side as well but with a letter B instead of A. Circle B labeling is a bit of guess work, but as there look to be white air pipes nearby it seems a logical choice. Only one of the labels is repeated on the other side in the same location, which may just be another Main Reservoir Drain. On the other side where Circle A is there are three labels close together. Two will most probably annotated as on this side with the extra one being Coolant Drain. 

 

The other people to talk to who may have a much better idea of what was on the notices is theClass 15 Preservation Society, who are restoring D8233. Their contact page can be found here, http://www.d8233.org.uk/about.htm

 

Hope the above is of help.

 

Paul J.

Thanks for your help, as always, Paul.

 

I'm afraid I can't get any pictures of what these labels looked like so I can reproduce them, so avoiding guessing and getting them wrong I'm going to leave them out. I'm a bit disappointed about that, but I'd rather not make a mistake. If I can get an example in the next couple weeks I may be able to squeeze them in.

 

Moving on to the sole bars. I've seen it written (by you, actually!) and the C15PS have told me that all these locos were supplied with sole bars painted gloss black. Unfortunately I've only been able to find two definite examples of this; D8225 and D8242. At a couple different times D8234 has had black sole bars (and buffer beams!) too.

 

I've examined many photographs of clean locos entering service and not long into service and all of them (apart from the ones above) have no discernible difference in tone between body and sole bar, which is highly suggestive that they were green, not black. All of the colour pics I can find confirm this.

 

Can you shed any light on this please?

 

The restored D8233 will have black sole bars, so no worries there, but I'm not so sure I should supply the standard green model this way.

 

Cheers, Steve

[The Nth Degree]

Is there any news on the loco that started all this, the 03 in kit form?

Sorry Jeff, I missed this.

 

I'm a bit worried about supplying a kit when a (presumably) pretty good RTR will be rolling out soon. I have all the kits on the back burner at the moment while this project is taking up all my time, but I will definitely be concentrating on the 04s when I get back to them. The first one to roll out will be the Wisbech and Great Yarmouth early varieties, but this will be next year. I'll be getting a very good and well known pattern maker to produce the masters and castings for it.

 

I may well also remove it from the Little Loco stable and put it into its own side business too.

[Swindon 123]

Thanks for your help, as always, Paul.

 

I'm afraid I can't get any pictures of what these labels looked like so I can reproduce them, so avoiding guessing and getting them wrong I'm going to leave them out. I'm a bit disappointed about that, but I'd rather not make a mistake. If I can get an example in the next couple weeks I may be able to squeeze them in.

 

Moving on to the sole bars. I've seen it written (by you, actually!) and the C15PS have told me that all these locos were supplied with sole bars painted gloss black. Unfortunately I've only been able to find two definite examples of this; D8225 and D8242. At a couple different times D8234 has had black sole bars (and buffer beams!) too.

 

I've examined many photographs of clean locos entering service and not long into service and all of them (apart from the ones above) have no discernible difference in tone between body and sole bar, which is highly suggestive that they were green, not black. All of the colour pics I can find confirm this.

 

Can you shed any light on this please?

 

The restored D8233 will have black sole bars, so no worries there, but I'm not so sure I should supply the standard green model this way.

 

Cheers, Steve

Hello Steve. Yes the solebars on the class 15's where a bit of a nightmare when it came to writing my thesis. Some definitely had black solebars when new. I have a photo of D8223 brand new at Hornsey in 1960 and they are definitely Gloss Black. There is also a photo of D8216 with SYP at Stratford in Nov 1962 in the Colour Rail collection, and that, had black solebars, as well as a light grey cab roof, which they all may have carried, but it is difficult to tell. The locos that I have have photos with green solebars are D8201, D8232 and D8242. All other photos are difficult to tell what colour they are, but the suggestion is that they were green. It may well be that the original specification was for black solebars, but as the locos would have probably been overhauled at least once in their lives, the solebars where later painted green. Stratford had a reputation for doing their own thing anyway. As to what to do on the model, you have at least three models you can do with black solebars, D8216, D8223 & D8233, and three to do with green solebars D8201, D8232 & D8242 at least. At least that will give modellers a basis to work with. As with most loco classes, the variations in liveries are almost endless.

 

Paul J.

[73080]

Whilst basically agreeing with the above post by Swindon 123 (# 330), from a trawl of photos I would make the additional comments.

 

I can find no photographic evidence that one of the offered livery options actually existed (small yellow panel with all over green cab i.e. the cab NOT being duck egg blue).  There are some photos with the cab fronts in shadow giving the impression of all over green, which is not the same as evidence that such livery existed.  All the photos I have seen where the cab colour can be definitively identified (i.e. D8200/02/03/05/06/07/09/10/12/14/15/16/19/20/22/23/24/32/33/34/36/38/41/42) show a duck egg blue cab.

 

The same applies to all green without warning panel locos and D82xx numbered locos with full yellow end.  However, with one possible exception, all of the ADB968xxx numbered locos had all over green body and green solebars (i.e. NO duck egg blue cab).  There is one photo where the loco could possibly have a duck egg blue cab, but instead it might have just become very dusty.

 

SOLEBARS

The majority of the colour photos of Class 15s that I have seen have dirty solebars that do not enable the colour of the solebar to be determined. In photos where it is possible to determine the solebar colour the following different livery combiations have been observed:

 

Plain green with duck egg blue cab and BLACK solebars:  D8215 (May 1961) D8229 (March 1962)

Plain green with duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars:  D8206 (1962) & D8236 (6 October 1962)

Note:  I have not found a clear colour photo of a Class 15 taken in the 1950s, though plenty of black and white photos exist.  The above evidence does nothing to contradict the suggestion that all Class 15s were originally outshopped with black solebars and these were repainted green subsequently.

 

Green with syp and duck egg blue cab and BLACK solebars:  D8216 & D8232

Green with syp and duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars:  D8205, D8208 (Stratford twin warning panels - June 1967), D8215 (20 April 1969), D8233 (August 1966) & D8241 (20 March 1968)

 

Green with fye and duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars: D8205 (5 April 1969), D8218 (13 October 1968), D8240 (with BR arrows April 1967).

No examples were found of Class 15s with fye and BLACK solebars.

 

If the Little Loco Company wishes to offer all the livery options for the Class 15s (excluding numbers, emblem/arrows and the Stratford twin small warning panels) I would suggest that the syp green with plain green cab be deleted and the options expanded to the following:

 

Green (without warning panel) with duck egg blue cab plus alternatives for black or green solebars

Green syp with duck egg blue cab plus alternatives for black or green solebars

Green fye with green solebars plus alternatives for duck egg blue cab (for D82xx) or plain green cab (for ADB968xxx).

[JeffP]

Sorry Jeff, I missed this.

 

I'm a bit worried about supplying a kit when a (presumably) pretty good RTR will be rolling out soon. I have all the kits on the back burner at the moment while this project is taking up all my time, but I will definitely be concentrating on the 04s when I get back to them. The first one to roll out will be the Wisbech and Great Yarmouth early varieties, but this will be next year. I'll be getting a very good and well known pattern maker to produce the masters and castings for it.

 

I may well also remove it from the Little Loco stable and put it into its own side business too.

Agreed, except that your kit will undoubtedly be better than the RTR offering, and probably FAR cheaper too.

 I'll keep watching.

[The Nth Degree]

Whilst basically agreeing with the above post by Swindon 123 (# 330), from a trawl of photos I would make the additional comments.

 

I can find no photographic evidence that one of the offered livery options actually existed (small yellow panel with all over green cab i.e. the cab NOT being duck egg blue).  There are some photos with the cab fronts in shadow giving the impression of all over green, which is not the same as evidence that such livery existed.  All the photos I have seen where the cab colour can be definitively identified (i.e. D8200/02/03/05/06/07/09/10/12/14/15/16/19/20/22/23/24/32/33/34/36/38/41/42) show a duck egg blue cab.

 

The same applies to all green without warning panel locos and D82xx numbered locos with full yellow end.  However, with one possible exception, all of the ADB968xxx numbered locos had all over green body and green solebars (i.e. NO duck egg blue cab).  There is one photo where the loco could possibly have a duck egg blue cab, but instead it might have just become very dusty.

 

SOLEBARS

The majority of the colour photos of Class 15s that I have seen have dirty solebars that do not enable the colour of the solebar to be determined. In photos where it is possible to determine the solebar colour the following different livery combiations have been observed:

 

Plain green with duck egg blue cab and BLACK solebars:  D8215 (May 1961) D8229 (March 1962)

Plain green with duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars:  D8206 (1962) & D8236 (6 October 1962)

Note:  I have not found a clear colour photo of a Class 15 taken in the 1950s, though plenty of black and white photos exist.  The above evidence does nothing to contradict the suggestion that all Class 15s were originally outshopped with black solebars and these were repainted green subsequently.

 

Green with syp and duck egg blue cab and BLACK solebars:  D8216 & D8232

Green with syp and duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars:  D8205, D8208 (Stratford twin warning panels - June 1967), D8215 (20 April 1969), D8233 (August 1966) & D8241 (20 March 1968)

 

Green with fye and duck egg blue cab and GREEN solebars: D8205 (5 April 1969), D8218 (13 October 1968), D8240 (with BR arrows April 1967).

No examples were found of Class 15s with fye and BLACK solebars.

 

If the Little Loco Company wishes to offer all the livery options for the Class 15s (excluding numbers, emblem/arrows and the Stratford twin small warning panels) I would suggest that the syp green with plain green cab be deleted and the options expanded to the following:

 

Green (without warning panel) with duck egg blue cab plus alternatives for black or green solebars

Green syp with duck egg blue cab plus alternatives for black or green solebars

Green fye with green solebars plus alternatives for duck egg blue cab (for D82xx) or plain green cab (for ADB968xxx).

Apologies for not responding to this helpful information earlier; I've been here, there and everywhere recently, and I'm off to Poland on Thursday. I will fully digest this when I get the time next week, but just to update a couple queries I've made a couple notes below.

 

The all-green cabs I found in a few photos, but having relooked at them it seems they may all be the same loco - which was a heating unit.

 

Regarding black solebars, all but 4 were built green. I'm still trying to find the commonality between the four built with black solebars. They were all built at different times, but they may have been in the same order block, just turned out at different times. I'll get back on the case when I'm back in the UK.

 

Thank you.

[BrushType4]

So BR blue is out of the question?

[Herr_Style]

Hi Steve, any news on whether the loco will be ready for end of November/beginning December? It's just for me to get it before Christmas, it will need to be posted in the first week of December. Mind you, I did get a Christmas present from last year delivered in March. Good old Canada Post!

[The Nth Degree]

Hello, thanks for asking.

 

The answer, in theory, is yes it will be ready - at least that's what we've agreed! The final production livery samples are now being completed and should arrive in a week or so, so providing they are correct production can start straight away and be delivered in time.

 

I've been doing a lot of multitasking - something us chaps aren't traditionally good at - preparing other projects, but everything depends on this one getting out on time. The second model is almost ready to send to the UK factory too. Exciting, but also a lot of clock watching.

[south_tyne]

Hello, thanks for asking.

 

The answer, in theory, is yes it will be ready - at least that's what we've agreed! The final production livery samples are now being completed and should arrive in a week or so, so providing they are correct production can start straight away and be delivered in time.

 

I've been doing a lot of multitasking - something us chaps aren't traditionally good at - preparing other projects, but everything depends on this one getting out on time. The second model is almost ready to send to the UK factory too. Exciting, but also a lot of clock watching.

Steve,

 

That's great news on both counts! With any luck the Class 15 will reach these shores by Christmas and I for one cannot wait for the announcement about the second product!!

 

Hopefully you can take comfort from the fact that you have lots of support from us RMwebber's

[The Nth Degree]

I totally appreciate every bit of support I can get, and so do the other beneficiaries from the projects, thank you.

[lewey13]

I can't wait to get this does anyone know where I can get the correct sound decoder from. Thanks Duncan

[The Nth Degree]

Hang tight Duncan, there maybe some news on that very topic soon!

[lewey13]

Okay thanks Duncan