Hornby dublo

[Bill Matters]

I am making up a Breakdown Crane train (consist) and need a mess coach and tool van. I read somewhere that obsolete dining cars were used as mess vans as they had the kitchen already fitted.

 

The red version of the Stanier dining car is more of a match to the pinkish red of the crane than the maroon of the normal Stanier brake coach or suburban coach. All I need is the nerve to convert the dining car, which has been kept in very good condition for the last 60 years.

[Il Grifone]

I

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I read somewhere that originally BR painted the restaurant cars crimson, as opposed to maroon, so that they were easy identified.  I am open to correction as I can't find it now.

 

If that was the case them it is possible that Hornby Dublo were being accurate and up to date.  Hornby tended to only produce the latest prototype livery so they would have changed to maroon when BR did.

 

In fact they did. The W.R. chocolate and cream and the maroon coaches date from 1957. The maroon restaurant car, however,did not appear until a couple of years later. I don't recall seeing any crimson restaurant cars though. The Dublo colour is still maroon rather than crimson though, just a noticeably different shade.

[Il Grifone]

18 hours ago, Bill Matters said:

I am making up a Breakdown Crane train (consist) and need a mess coach and tool van. I read somewhere that obsolete dining cars were used as mess vans as they had the kitchen already fitted.

 

The red version of the Stanier dining car is more of a match to the pinkish red of the crane than the maroon of the normal Stanier brake coach or suburban coach. All I need is the nerve to convert the dining car, which has been kept in very good condition for the last 60 years.

 

 I used a bright red Tri-ang clerestory brake/third* with mine. (There's also a black version - and a (rare) Trix one**.)

 

'Upgraded' to second in 1956 of course.

 

**Easy enough to fake copy It's just the short brake/third painted black and branded with ED and a number.

 

EDIT  Sorry (senior moment!) the Trix ED coach is a first/third 'shortie' (very) non-corridor. IIRC Dublo provided one of their short suburbans in a set with the N2 and the crane. Here (it also includes the packing van) https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dublo+crane+set 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Il Grifone

[kevinlms]

20 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

The SD6 coaches are particularly prone to rusting around the windows. 

Very prototypical of early versions of the Mk1 coach then!

[robmcg]

On 20/05/2019 at 19:04, Il Grifone said:

"I have so far avoided late version 3-rail with nylon wheels,  because unlike some around here, I have self-discipline!!!! "

 

Go on! You know you want need them!

 

(The nylon couplings are a bit of a pain, but at least don't need careful adjustment like the metal ones.)

 

The A4 tender 'coal' is always bent (Acetate strikes again!).

You can always add the 'correct' tender later.  They are all the same under the paint. A nice 'Mallard' could be a tad cheaper bereft of tender.

 

The all-third has two variations (apart from being half of the articulated set. The gangway portion on the end can be black or brown (allegedly to represent a non-corridor coach - umm no!). I think only the third comes with this choice, though there is no reason the composite and brake couldn't.

Afterthought!

The very last thirds (sold in 1954 - I can remember seeing some on sale back then, but short of pocket money...) had the grey roof of the BR version. It doesn't really count as it's easy enough to swop roofs.

 

 

Thank you for your advice David, and others.

 

I have enjoyed buying a considerable number of engines, also rolling stock, track, sufficient to make a small layout and certainly enjoy owning these 1940-50s models.  I will photograph many of these when they arrive in NZ. This may take a couple of weeks and many are being sent from the UK via an agency. They will replace worn or lost Hornby Dublo 3-rail items from my childhood, either actual or 'dreamed-of'  e.g. a Standard 2-6-4T  three-carriage set, only dreamed about, equally A4s LNER and BR.

 

There are still items missing from an ideal collection,  D22 maroon tin carriages and a few other things, I have tried to avoid too much plastic as in later Dublo models, more an attempt at limiting my madness than anything else.

 

Transport/postage costs are variable, one purchase went from UKP175 up to a horrendous amounts because with postage it just tipped over a tax-free import NZ limit of approx UKP200...  the mint Atholl set concerned has thus cost over UKP320 with taxes, duty, and unspecified 'charges',   but it's my contribution to the Government I guess.  Ouch!

 

That's one way to curb enthusiasm!

 

But I do look forward to hearing couriers trotting up to my door, the crash of artistically-launched parcels landing on the doorstep, the ceremonial process of exhuming the contents, and the process of discovering whether they match the sellers' claims.

 

Then of course I have the photographic challenge, not of creating vaguely real scenes as I do with modern plastic models (and PSP6 photo editing software), but just simply making them look good, or perhaps in more abstract ways a la advertising of the 1940s-50s era.

 

A marvellous adventure so far, and bound to continue, there apparently being no known antidote.

 

here is one of the purchases, described as good working order, UKP45,  not sure yet what the postage will be... 

 

 

and this c1955 below, 2019 cost UKP59...   can't be bad,   'good condition'.... box lid needs repair.

 

 

 

Cheers, and thanks to all,   and photos in a week or two.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by robmcg

[Il Grifone]

The 4MT tank set only cost in real terms about what the locomotive cost in 1954 (59/6d IIRC, sets were around £10). It appears to have gained a few bonus rails. Sets originally had eight curves and two straights. One of the rails was a terminal rail, originally a straight (later fitted with a suppresor capacitor (or condensor as it was then). It was changed to a curve about the time of the launch of the BR liveries and later still one of the straights was replaced with two half straights, one with the roadway for the level crossing*.

 

*This rail only appeared about a year after the level crossing. I assume it was included in sets to encourage sales of the crossings!

 

A rarity in the photo above - a low sided wagon with cable drums still with intact labels. They replaced this later on with a 2 rail version with plastic drums. Very rare - a late issue and the Tri-ang version was cheaper.... We never saw a plastic container however. Merit did one (and the lorry to put it on) and they probably had large stocks of the wooden ones. An excellent deal at £45. Working locomotives seem to start at around £30 (which is not to say bargains are not to be found!).

 

I've seen around £12 quoted for postage the other way for quite small items. I see you get ripped off with import duties too - I don't see why carriage charges should count as part of the value of an item, but they do - (and people here want to leave the EU with no deal!).

I can remember 1960s exchange controls and only being allowed to take £20 abroad at a time. Not much for a holiday even then, especially as only the well-heeled could afford such luxuries.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Il Grifone

[robmcg]

Hi David,

 

Thanks for the information.   Some of these Ebay purchases I have been making are going through a postal agency in Middlesex and then on to me in NZ so it is slow. None have arrived yet in 2 weeks or more since Ebay purchase, except the one held at NZ Customs requiring a £90 surcharge  which I have paid, but received no notification of receipt of my bank transfer to them, no despatch advice. .
 

The NZ Post agent in Middlesex is excellent when things go smoothly, but actually finding a real human when things go wrong is, um, challenging.

 

It appears that one Hornby Dublo purchase from a reliable Ebay seller has gone missing, Royal Mail Parcels tracked signed for and recorded as 'delivered' on 22 May a week ago,  BUT the agent in Middlesex has no record of receiving it.  £80  approx 1kg according to seller.

 

Endless emails, even a NZ Post phone call,where a very nice person said, 'it's quite odd, it's never happened before'..

 

So there are teams of skilled people searching warehouses for a blue A4 and three tinplate carriages.   NOT.

 

You've got to laugh or you would cry....   I have a feeling I will eventually be requesting a refund from Ebay because somebody either didn't write the address right, or it fell off, or it was squashed by an errant forklift....    sigh....

 

How can signed-for tracked mail be recorded as delivered, and the recipient, a professional agent, say they haven't received it?  I must be missing something. The address includes my name and a client code;  

 

As Arfur says, 'what can possibly go wrong?' 

 

Here is the missing A4   just so we can send out sniffer dogs...

 

 

Better go and make a cup of tea.  I truly despair sometimes.

 

edit;

 

No, things get worse,  I tried to buy a Stirling Single from Locomotion, and after two months of promises never kept albeit I hadn't paid the actual full amount when I thought 'full amount' was the amount I paid when I paid 'balance due'...   I gave up and asked for refund.  I think my refund required an Act of Parliament.

 

Me?  Cynical?? 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by robmcg

[Guest Locomotion No. 3]

1 hour ago, robmcg said:

No, things get worse,  I tried to buy a Stirling Single from Locomotion, and after two months of promises never kept albeit I hadn't paid the actual full amount when I thought 'full amount' was the amount I paid when I paid 'balance due'...   I gave up and asked for refund.  I think my refund required an Act of Parliament.

 

Rob

 

Firstly apologies for replying to this is the Hornby Dublo thread rather than the Locomotion Models section.

 

Secondly I was sorry to hear about your problems regarding the Stirling Single. I thought we had resolved all of the inherited problems - obviously not.

 

Please PM with any issues outstanding and I promise to sort them for you.

 

In the meantime if you would like a Stirling Single I can sort that too. However, we don't have that many left so please do not leave it too late to acquire one.

 

I can only apologise for the problems you have encountered and I will be on the case in the morning to find out the background to this. Clearly it falls well short of the standards you and I expect and we have badly let you down.

 

Fortunately I have a long standing interest in Hornby Dublo or I may not have picked up your post. Now that I have we can sort it.

 

Dennis Lovett

Exclusive Models Marketing Executive

Locomotionmodels.com

 

 

[Il Grifone]

8 hours ago, robmcg said:

Hi David,

 

omis

 

 

The NZ Post agent in Middlesex is excellent when things go smoothly, but actually finding a real human when things go wrong is, um, challenging.

 

It appears that one Hornby Dublo purchase from a reliable Ebay seller has gone missing, Royal Mail Parcels tracked signed for and recorded as 'delivered' on 22 May a week ago,  BUT the agent in Middlesex has no record of receiving it.  £80  approx 1kg according to seller.

 

omis

 

 

Hi Rob,

 

In my experience, finding a real human who can actually sort out the problem is even more challenging....

 

The second sounds very dodgy.

 

I have had a delivery marked on the card as " Left in your secure place" (or similar) It turned out that it had been chucked over the fence into the back garden! Luckily no harm was done as it landed safely and it wasn't raining. (One of the private delivery firms (I forget which) set up in competition with the Royal Mail. - I won't comment further....)

[robmcg]

The lost unrecorded 'delivered' item , delivered by Royal Mail and presumably signed-for by a recipient, turned up at Auckland airport today and went through customs immediately, I can only presume the recipient had not scanned it, but nevertheless put it into the correct pallet or box, thus it fell 'out' of the system for 6 days.

 

It appeared on the post agent's tracking list when scanned at Auckland, the same agent which for 6 days had no recorded knowledge of its existence in spite of receiving it, signed, from Royal Mail.

 

Another 5 items are successfully on their way too. 

 

I wasted four hours, originally e-mailing polite enquiries to three of four parties to the transaction (vendor, NZ/UK agent, NZ Post), complete with various screen shots of transaction details, then, explaining that it all appeared solved.  c'est la vie.  If it had gone missing permanently then I imagine my evidence might have brought an Ebay/Paypal refund.

 

Surely a hard Brexit could be no worse, after all., 'what could possibly go wrong?'

 

Back to Hornby Dublo might be a wiser and more fruitful avenue of thought...    I bought a serviced cleaned Duchess of Atholl this evening locally for UKP48....   I mean, what else could a civilised man do?

This does rather bring the concept  of addiction to mind.

 

I think when things go missing in recorded tracked signed-for mail in future I will do nothing. It will turn up eventually.   Rather like the irreplaceable part which falls to the floor, cannot be found in extensive multi-person grid searches, and re-appears days later just where the search was, or inside a sock, or on the carpet in another room...

 

cheers

[Il Grifone]

Hi Rob,

 

"Surely a hard Brexit could be no worse, after all., 'what could possibly go wrong?"

 

I'm more of the opinion;  Surely a hard Brexit could be no worse, after all., 'what could possibly go right?' 

 

"Better the devil you know...." I'm all set to apply for Italian citizenship - appararently our 'great pro-brexiteer' has already obtained German citizenship!

tRump has already stated there's a 'great deal' for us. It will be TTIP with knobs on. He was opposed to it because it didn't go far enough!

 

Enough skirting around politics, I 'm happy to hear they've found your A4!    (Rubbish Smiley it used to work properly! - this one reminds of the unmentionable objects above.)

 

When (if) I find missing items, they're usually somewhere I've already looked several times before!

[robmcg]

The challenge now is to photograph these lovely 1950s models...   I mean, look what Hornby have come to! Well the front engine at least. 

 

A whole different approach needed for such as a Duchess speeding through a Dublo station on the front room floor, several cups of tea and much thinking will be in order methinks.

 

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

...

 

When (if) I find missing items, they're usually somewhere I've already looked several times before!

 

There is a grey tabby cat which chooses to hang around this house, and I suspect that it knows more than it's letting on.

 

I now have a lot of Hornby Dublo 3-rail stock either here or en-route, and rather fancy photographing the engines in particular with simple accurate honest photography, something unknown to me.   Even in the 1960s I would 'fix' negatives and prints with dye, digital imagery makes it almost mandatory.

 

There as a very nice Czech gentleman in the railway society here back then, he had suffered in the war, but of indomitable character. Always making points of order at meetings, and he was a very fine photographer, but refused to use more than a box brownie, his photos were occasionally excellent.   In the early 70s I was a press photographer and visited him in his bungalow in what is now a rich leafy suburb, his house was dark and full of books, he was something of a loner but you couldn't help but be impressed by him.

 

But I ramble.     Just thinking out loud about styles of photography really...   and marrying the Hornby Dublo catalogue 'effects' to modern digital methods will be a challenge, so I will start with simple sharp clear pictures.

 

not exactly like this, which is adapted from a Hattons ad...

 

 

and not exactly like this, either, which is Horny's latest iteration of 46232, edited,

 

 

so there is something of a dilemma in photographic style coming up. But I can think of worse dilemmas to have. 

[Wolseley]

 

On 25/05/2019 at 07:36, robmcg said:

 

Well David, you will insist on this thing with Swindon! 

 

On 26/05/2019 at 23:40, Il Grifone said:

 

When you get it right the first time....

 

When you get it right the first time, make it bigger and better the next time 

 

Stanier was, of course, Collett's assistant prior to being "headhunted" (to use a modern term) by Sir Josiah Stamp, Chairman of the LMS.  Stanier was part of the team involved in the design of both the Castles and the Kings.  The Princess Royal pacifics, from which the Duchesses were developed, have been described with justification by more than one writer, Walschaerts gear notwithstanding, as being stretched Kings.

[LMS2968]

Err, all GWR four cylinder locos, including the Kings, had Walschaert's gear.

 

The Lizzies though were not the bees' knees in service and the Big 'uns were a vast improvement. They owed little to GWR practice, or to Stanier, for that matter.

[Robert Vale]

Like Rob I'm also in NZ (Wellington) and have had a few tries at "simple honest photography" of my Dublo locos. Here's the Duchess of Atholl waiting at the platform while Mildred murmurs to Arthur "I'm sure there used to be a train at five past eleven...". (Yes, that is Trix Bakelite track in front of the platform, my railway is a combination of Hornby Dublo, Tri-and Trix.)

 

Robert

[robmcg]

What a superb picture Robert.

 

The very atmosphere is exactly the kind of thing I'm after with my models from the same era.

 

I unwrapped my very inexpensive (I thought) LNER A4 this morning, together with three coaches, one a 'full third' which I understand is quite rare? I haven't had much time to set things up, let alone create working diorama, but these first arrivals are very exciting.

 

Modern cameras certainly take no prisoners! 

 

 

Then just out of interest I added by photo-editing a background to add interest, by way of experiment.

 

I know many people do not like edited pictures of models so will remove this it it offends.  I do wonder that the artists at Meccano Limited would have done if they had the kind of digital photography which exists today?

 

To me this is very much an experiment, with what is undoubtedly a model but an 'imagined' setting...  mildly 'odd', I wonder what I and others would have thought of such style of illustration back in the 1950s?   Personally I think it works, in  strange sort of way evoking the feeling I had when I ran these older model trains, imagination works. And it certainly represents the genius of Sir Nigel Gresley and the romance of the age!

 

 

Apologies it it offends, will remove if asked by mods or OP.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

On a somewhat different note, a screeching noise from a 1958 Bristol Castle which we don't know quite how to fix..

 

 

 

Anyone with experience of these things with any suggestions? I'm not very able with my hands, but my brother isn't too bad, we are

wondering if the worm gear is slipping either on the main drive gear below it or on the motor shaft/axle to which its attached, but there's no tightness in motion if we turn the armature manually so no reason for it to slip really.  Maybe the bearings at the ends of the motor shaft/axle are worn out and/or dry?

 

The engine had light to moderate use from new in the 1959-62 era and has been in storage in a dry home since then, often on display on a bookshelf.  Light house dust.

 

Any suggestions most welcome.

 

 

[jimwal]

I placed a reply on the other thread you started before seeing this. Basically oil up all bearings and gears as indicated in the loco booklets of the time. After near sixty years the lubricant will have dried out.

 

I, for one enjoy your photo editing, it looks very good and puts todays models into a setting many of us may never create as a layout. I believe you indicate when you have edited a picture, people don't have to look at them if they don't like them!

 

Jim

Edited June 2, 2019 by jimwal
plural to 'model'

[sagaguy]

It`s probably the front motor bearing,they need plenty of lubricant.Don`t use 3 in one,some people use sewing m/c oil but i use a synthetic lubricant like DayWat poly.i think Labelle sell a similar item.

 

                                    Ray.

[robmcg]

Thanks sagaguy I will suggest more-better synthetic lubricant and we shall see.

 

Just now I bought, out of curiosity really, or because I am a fool,  a Gresley coach combo in red-cream.

 

I cannot find reference to this model in Ramsays and wonder if it is common?

 

 

 

maybe it's the senility kicking-in....

 

Ah, I should have known, in the ad,  why didn't I read it...?   Proves my madness...

 

 

Hornby Dublo 3 Rail BR Crimson Crean 1st/3rd Articulated Coaches

Hornby dublo BR 1st/3rd no.on sides E42759E
Hornby dublo BR brake/3rd no.on sides E45402E

both altered to form articulated unit

corridor connector coated alloy

both roofs repainted

 

Still it appeals to me!

 

looks well done

 

 

 

 

cheers  and UKP39 poorer... 

Edited June 1, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, sagaguy said:

It`s probably the front motor bearing,they need plenty of lubricant.Don`t use 3 in one,some people use sewing m/c oil but i use a synthetic lubricant like DayWat poly.i think Labelle sell a similar item.

 

                                    Ray.

 

We added oil to the rear bearing, oddly enough this fixed it,  seems it was dry bearing(s) anyway,   and it is now running smoothly, thanks for your help.  A great forum!    Cleaned the armature and brushes too, which can't be bad.

 

Thanks Ray.

 

here it is with more lubricant

 

 

Now to find that 'Ludlow Castle' for fifteen quid on Ebay...

Edited June 1, 2019 by robmcg

[Wolseley]

Meccano Ltd, of course, only made the Duchess of Atholl, Duchess of Montrose, City of Liverpool (if you can afford one, that is) and City of London (relatively straightforward to convert to three rail).  There is also the "Canadian Pacific" version, but that one's not to everyone's taste.  So what do you do if you want more Duchesses (and before some pedant crawls out of the woodwork to correct me, I know that isn't the correct name for the class, but I, like many others, prefer to call them by that name)?  You could do something like this:

 

 

My latest project (almost finished) is refinishing a rather battered City of London (which I converted to three rail) to the City of Bradford, in lined LMS post-war black, with "BRITISH RAILWAYS" on the tender.  I'll have to count them and see how many of these locos I have.  Round about a dozen I think.....

 

Going off-topic here, but I discovered that the early Tri-ang/Hornby streamlined Coronations have a Hornby Dublo tender chassis, complete with mounting points for Dublo coupler and for Dublo "plunger" tender pickups.  I have now got four of them.  The red one (I named it City of Edinburgh) has been converted to three rail, with a blue one to follow.  The other two will need a bit of work but will be shop grey (the Duchess of Devonshire ran in service in shop grey for a short time) and wartime black (somehow I think King George VI would be a good name for this one).

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Wolseley
correcting typo

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, Wolseley said:

Going off-topic here, but I discovered that the early Tri-ang/Hornby streamlined Coronations have a Hornby Dublo tender chassis, complete with mounting points for Dublo coupler and for Dublo "plunger" tender pickups.

The Railway Modeller reviewer called them the first true Triang-Hornby model for that reason, combining parts from both stables. Factually untrue though as the AL1 did that some years earlier.

[sagaguy]

Still coming along.Tender sprayed gloss back,next job is to apply the lining & LMS lettering & some coal in the bunker.

 

 

                                     Ray