Hornby R4851 Swallow Livery MK3 'TRFB'

[MGR Hooper!]

I might email Dave Jones and inquire as to whether he would consider modelling a proper version of the mark 3 as there seems to be plenty of interest.

Good luck with the looooooooong waiting time. Also a few people on RMweb doesn't really constitute for plenty of interest for any manufacturer to spend money on an entire range of Mk.3 coaches.

 

I understand that you're upset by this error, so am I. After all the coach just looks wrong without the vents....seems a bit naked to me.

 

But has anyone here bothered to actually contact Hornby directly about the issue? I know Hornby's factories seem to lack a proper QC team but then we've also seen that in the past few months Hornby has been really helpful in sorting out errors and issues with models. Have a look at the IEP Class 800 thread. Hornby have been extremely helpful there. Why not get in touch with Hornby (as many people as possible) and see if they can produce the roof and either have it sent out to customers or have them swap it over?

[Legend]

It is true that while we take exception to mistakes like this the majority of Hornby customers will buy it and be blissfully unaware.

 

Does seem rather a shame though for those looking to make up a normal rake

Edited September 26, 2018 by Legend

[GordonC]

I seem to recall there being talk that the roof tooling for a Ml3 Buffet vehicle had been damaged a couple of years ago and that a regular MK3 FO / SO had to be used instead.

 

As has been noted before, the Hornby Mk3 range is effectively a total bodge job - a mix of warmed over Hornby & Lima tooling with various tweaks over the years.

 

Therefore it is rather unrealistic to assume that anything Hornby chose to release will be error free or much of an improvement on previous releases.

 

Its why there were high hopes when Oxford announced they were going to be doing the Mk3s - at last modellers dreams of a super detailed designed from scratch with lots of tooling variations to allow for all the details over the years was about to come true..... or so we thought.

 

As it turned out however Oxford's efforts were still found wanting - but what they did do is dilute the market for a super detailed Mk3 such that its very unlikely anyone else will take them on.

 

I'd heard that story too, but is it really all that hard to re-tool a single coach roof or replace what was damaged? Is it really better to chuck any old rubbish out for the modern image modellers than at least attempt to get something right?

[Hilux5972]

I'd heard that story too, but is it really all that hard to re-tool a single coach roof or replace what was damaged? Is it really better to chuck any old rubbish out for the modern image modellers than at least attempt to get something right?

Not so much difficulty, more cost. New tooling costs £10,000’s plus

[gazwire]

What about the colour of the stripe- that’s just super poor.

[NickL2008]

The mark 3 has always been a mixed bag, whoever has released it has had some form of error to correct, Limas Mark 3 had chunky detail and undersized wheels. Hornbys mark 3 has detail errors and those awful bogies, and Oxford Rails mark 3 had the livery issues and under-nourished roof ribs and and bogies, and none of the manufacturers have gotten the window frames or the bogies spot on really IMO... as previously mentioned, when will the mark 3 get a decent model of it?

 

NL

[Classsix T]

It is true that while we take exception to mistakes like this the majority of Hornby customers will buy it and be blissfully unaware.

 

Does seem rather a shame though for those looking to make up a normal rake

Not to disagree, but don't underestimate consumer power on such matters. Bachmann obviously took on-board criticism of their initial releases of Cl.37 & Cl.40 meaning a probably not inexpensive re-tool.

Rectifying clearly incorrect errors early, even after an initial release, has to make more sense on a legacy item, lest knowledgeable modellers avoid entirely, Shirley?

 

C6T.

[neil50]

Really was looking forward to this release but when they arrived today from Rails I was so disappointed with the faults. trouble is they have us over a barrel they're the only game in town. Suppose I could alter the livery and build vents but shouldn't have to for the price Hornby charge. At least Dapol bit the bullet when they got the class 68 liveries wrong.

[owentherail]

I don't dislike the couplings on the coaches but why did the PCs not have them to?

[jonathan452]

I don't dislike the couplings on the coaches but why did the PCs not have them to?

Indeed.

[StrathpefferJunction]

I'm a big fan of Hornby's Class 43s, but I've been really disappointed by these Mk3s. Every one I have has notable livery application flaws. I'm not talking about the odd picky wee thing or detail I wish they'd included, it's basic manufacturing flaws and they're notably poor next to all of my other Hornby MK3s and M2s. One of the biggest flaws is on one side, where the printed detail appears at the opposite end of the coach to the moulded detail it's supposed to be applied over. It's like this on the SO and FO coach, so I'm fearful that this error will be replicated across an awful lot of them, if not all. I've bought and been happy with lots of Hornby models over the years, but these are visibly poor in comparison and, given all of the bad press of late, you'd really think they'd have gone all out to make sure that these models were of acceptable quality.

Edited September 29, 2018 by StrathpefferJunction

[owentherail]

I'm a big fan of Hornby's Class 43s, but I've been really disappointed by these Mk3s. Every one I have has notable livery application flaws. I'm not talking about the odd picky wee thing or detail I wish they'd included, it's basic manufacturing flaws and they're notably poor next to all of my other Hornby MK3s and M2s. One of the biggest flaws is on one side, where the printed detail appears at the opposite end of the coach to the moulded detail it's supposed to be applied over. It's like this on the SO and FO coach, so I'm fearful that this error will be replicated across an awful lot of them, if not all. I've bought and been happy with lots of Hornby models over the years, but these are visibly poor in comparison and, given all of the bad press of late, you'd really think they'd have gone all out to make sure that these models were of acceptable quality.

All coaches I've got have this error (printing opposite ends from molding) except for ironically the restraint coach which has other issues

[StrathpefferJunction]

All coaches I've got have this error (printing opposite ends from molding) except for ironically the restraint coach which has other issues

Ah, so it is as I feared, then. I'm not sure what the detail is (a filler cap or poor point or something?), but it's a clanger. Looks to me that they've got something revered on the pad printing setup and no one has noticed. Given it's got two colours in involved (red and white), it's probably quite a fundamental equipment set up error. But that aside, everything about these shouts sloppy job. Even on the better ones, there's under spray and over spray, unsmooth application and so on. If I compare them to my mint Hornby mk2s, they're visibly poorer quality. I actually feel pretty bad for Hornby, because this is the last thing they needed...and I'm still awaiting my Class 43s back from them which, despite being nice models, had a faulty tts decoder (which again wasn't an isolated fault and, so I'm told by my supplier, was down to shoddy components being used at the factory in China).

[gazwire]

Funnily enough, despite the new Bachmann 2fs being fantastic, i had to discard 3 coaches before I was satisfied as there were some ever-so tiny paint errors where there may be a tiny dot of white on blue paint, or some blemish on the yellow stripe. I was also aware that, to my mind, they hadn't been properly stored in the factory before boxing as there were some minuscule marks which i had to wipe off on some of the roofs. They are fantastic coaches though.

[jonathan452]

Has anybody had any feedback from Hornby yet?

 

And which factory did these come from?

Edited September 29, 2018 by jonathan452

[Ian Hargrave]

Has anybody had any feedback from Hornby yet?

 

And which factory did these come from?

Why not take the matter up with Hornby yourself if you have an issue with this ? They are approachable if you do so in a sensible and constructive manner. One member of their team posts occasionally on this forum. Edited September 30, 2018 by Ian Hargrave

[jonathan452]

Why not take the matter up with Hornby yourself if you have an issue with this ? They are approachable if you do so in a sensible and constructive manner. One member of their team posts occasionally on this forum.

As I mentioned in post 7 this model (and the TTS power cars) weren't on my list.

 

Several subsequent posts suggested that those with an issue should contact Hornby.

 

Therefore I would be interested if anybody else (who may have contacted Hornby) has yet received a response.

 

Coning back to the (Chinese) factories I would be interested to know if Hornby (wholly or partly) withhold payment when they receive a dud?

 

Short of actually sending them back.

[Ian Hargrave]

As I mentioned in post 7 this model (and the TTS power cars) weren't on my list.

 

Several subsequent posts suggested that those with an issue should contact Hornby.

 

Therefore I would be interested if anybody else (who may have contacted Hornby) has yet received a response.

 

Coning back to the (Chinese) factories I would be interested to know if Hornby (wholly or partly) withhold payment when they receive a dud?

 

Short of actually sending them back.

Do you honestly believe that commercially sensitive information would be released on a public forum ?

[gazwire]

That buffet car is giving me nightmares! I can't get rid of terrifying images of that yellow stripe and awful interior hand rails which are the same thickness as the silver rim. To cap it off, its roof looks like Willie Thorn with no (barnet) roof vents.

 

Such a shame as the class 43s are excellent and the other coaches in the rake aren't horrific- but my 'o my: that buffet car- a right dogs dinner!

Edited October 9, 2018 by gazwire

[tractor_37260]

That buffet car is giving me nightmares! I can't get rid of terrifying images of that yellow stripe and awful interior hand rails which are the same thickness as the silver rim. To cap it off, its roof looks like Willie Thorn with no (barnet) roof vents.

 

Such a shame as the class 43s are excellent and the other coaches in the rake aren't horrific- but my 'o my: that buffet car- a right dogs dinner!

 

Perhaps not ideal, but why not fit a roof from an earlier Lima Swallow MK3 buffet, maybe not fully accurate, but at lease they had vents...........assuming the windows match up it would also get rid of those interior handrails also ? 

[surfsup]

Perhaps not ideal, but why not fit a roof from an earlier Lima Swallow MK3 buffet, maybe not fully accurate, but at lease they had vents...........assuming the windows match up it would also get rid of those interior handrails also ? 

 

 

You won't be able to do with that with this model though as it uses Hornby's own tooling rather than the ex Lima RFM / TRFB mashup. Otherwise that wouldn't be a bad idea. 

[deltic79]

You won't be able to do with that with this model though as it uses Hornby's own tooling rather than the ex Lima RFM / TRFB mashup. Otherwise that wouldn't be a bad idea. 

True. And I don't think the Hornby tooling has separate roofs like Lima did.

 

You could try to find an old Jouef Mk.3 buffet since the vents were separate parts which you could transplant on to the Hornby model.

 

Alternatively I think that Southern Pride Model does the vents.

[letterspider]

Really was looking forward to this release but when they arrived today from Rails I was so disappointed with the faults. trouble is they have us over a barrel they're the only game in town. Suppose I could alter the livery and build vents but shouldn't have to for the price Hornby charge. At least Dapol bit the bullet when they got the class 68 liveries wrong.

 

Perhaps Bachmann can do the definitive Mk3 but it may be at £75 a coach?

[Andy Mac]

Perhaps Bachmann can do the definitive Mk3 but it may be at £75 a coach?

I hope Bachmann concentrate on something else... I think the Mk3 Coach market is crowded enough with a basic, Hornby model and a more detailed Oxford model...

[Sun Street]

If you want a red stripe on your buffet car, Humbrol do a nice shade of red.

Precision Paints too.

It takes less time to correct than reading all this topic.

Be grateful for what is there, it may not be there for ever..........

Yes, I would like a model to be perfect and it is not unreasonable to expect very high standards, but come on, these errors are not beyond simple rectification, if they annoy to that extent.

 

My rake for the HSDT has to be created by modification of production items,try researching that little lot for total accuracy. Mods went on throughout the trials to the power cars and some of the coaches.

I had 2 of the first 4 window food wagons, job 1 was to remove the lighting and cut half the sides out to create the correct window size / spacings.

 

There is more chunter about the stripe than the fact that Hornby have ( or have had ) the correct tooling for both standard class and first class interiors, not just 2+1 or 2+2 either, but different spacings. It seems that any old seats are bunged in willy-nilly.

Is this why the windows are so close to opaque?

This should be easy to remedy, but has not, to my knowledge, been corrected.

So sad.