A New Hope - Great Model Railway Challenge benefits

[Vistisen]

I am in one or other of several libraries reasonably often. I see very few "customers" in them (which I find sad - but there it is).

 

The library might like to host a model railway event to increase throughput for the library but there is enough of a challenge getting people interested in model railways without the added burden of first getting them into a library.

 

In a shopping centre (many of which have empty units that the management might be prepared to "loan" for an afternoon) there is a large throughput of people with money in their pockets and wondering what to spend it on. They will also be drawn from all sections of the local community, and not just the narrower range of people who visit libraries.

 

...R

good Idea

I am in one or other of several libraries reasonably often. I see very few "customers" in them (which I find sad - but there it is).

 

The library might like to host a model railway event to increase throughput for the library but there is enough of a challenge getting people interested in model railways without the added burden of first getting them into a library.

 

In a shopping centre (many of which have empty units that the management might be prepared to "loan" for an afternoon) there is a large throughput of people with money in their pockets and wondering what to spend it on. They will also be drawn from all sections of the local community, and not just the narrower range of people who visit libraries.

 

...R

good Idea

[Bill_J]

So, there's enough evidence after four episodes of the GRMC, of a raised interest in model railways in general.

 

Lacathedrale says:

"Games Workshop was the most mercenary of wargames companies, but during it's 90's heyday where every schoolchild (including myself) got involved with it, they had two leaflets available at every shop: how to get started painting, and an overview of the relevant product ranges."

 

 For me, one of the stand out things about the GW shops, were the cases of built, painted and converted models, so very well presented, almost like jewellery, in the windows of their shops. The idea that anyone could have their own, for pocket money prices was for me, a reminder of the two bob Airfix kits, back when that was my weeks pocket money. 

 

Since the loss of ubiquitous stores like Woolworths and model shops like Beatties from the high street, and the loss of so many high street model and toy shops, how easy is it for someone to see, handle and buy something to try. Shopping on-line? The supermarket? There is very little choice.

 

Ok, there's the local exhibition to pop in to, maybe. I suspect that unless potential railway modellers can get a "quick fix", for many, the interest will quickly dissipate.

 

Then there are the various magazines, if you can find them. Which you won't in most newsagents, or many convenience stores. Smiths and the larger supermarkets if you're lucky. If you do find one, there's a confusing amount of information for someone with what may be just a fleeting interest.

 

I think the magazine publishers have missed a trick here, (one in particular springs to mind). There was a clear and obvious opportunity to produce a beginners introduction to railway modelling as a special publication and to make sure it was on magazine racks as the series aired.

 

I think I've rambled on for long enough...

 

Regards

[JohnR]

 

I think the magazine publishers have missed a trick here, (one in particular springs to mind). There was a clear and obvious opportunity to produce a beginners introduction to railway modelling as a special publication and to make sure it was on magazine racks as the series aired.

 

I think I've rambled on for long enough...

 

Regards

 

 

I've often seen bookazines from Model Rail, BRM and Hornby on the newstands doing just that. Our very own Phil Parker produced one on his Edgeworth layout that I thought was excellent. More recently they did one with used a train set as a basis and turned into something more scenic.

[Phil Parker]

I've often seen bookazines from Model Rail, BRM and Hornby on the newstands doing just that. Our very own Phil Parker produced one on his Edgeworth layout that I thought was excellent. More recently they did one with used a train set as a basis and turned into something more scenic.

 

It's still available: https://pocketmags.com/british-railway-modelling-magazine/the-brm-guide-to-building-your-first-model-railway

[Lacathedrale]

I wonder how much of a messiah complex is being assumed here - jewelers or leatherworkers or RC car enthusiasts don't appear to have the same doom and gloom outlook - maybe a good deal of this anxiety is because of the way that the hobby swelled with young trainspotters who turned hobbyists as they got older, and now it is returning to a natural equilibrium at a lower level of popularity?

 

I think I've rambled on for long enough...

 

Regards

 

You're right - there is almost zero accessibility for models anymore, but I never felt when walking into the last vestiges (that is, Modelzone in Holborn) that I was ever going to buy anything - the mark-up over online was too high even in the early days of internet commerce. When I was a kid, and there was still a few independent model shops within bus-ride distance, they were full of older, condescending gents who had no time for me or interest in paying much heed of a kid with £12 in his pocket. I think maybe it is romanticised, but I think in the spirit of the thread we should be looking forward - the younger generation are FULLY COMFORTABLE with buying online with high resolution photos, 360 degree rotations and 4k HD video product unboxings and reviews.

 

It doesn't cost much or take much time to use a last-generation digital camera with a photo box and have your product either built or attached to models. Many companies are starting to send their products to the big YT channels for review and demonstration (i.e. War World Scenics sending to Kathy Milatt, New Junction) and I think this represents the way that manufacturers have to lean forward into the consumer and customer-driven mentality of today's marketplace. Gone (and/or going) are the times when customers are prepared to lean out over the precipice - especially when the alternatives within the hobby (and other, less difficult/time consuming hobbies) are everywhere.

 

In terms of content, why the hell don't Hornby, Bachmann, Peco, Heljan, etc. have YouTube channels pumping out videos on stock demonstrations, in-house painters or model makers, dioramas, etc. etc. ?

 

Here's a 'talking head' discussing some cheap entrypoints into the hobby, something that could be done by any trainset manufacturer:

 

Here's a video that could easily be a Hornby-funded one on detailing the Railroad A4:

 

Here's a video on servicing an older Hornby ringfield motor:

 

These aren't the only ones, but my point is - Why are the big names not doing this? This is how you get people interested. Trending videos, hashtags, retweets, etc.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[HonestTom]

The usual "starter set" is an oval of track which occupies a fair amount of space for relatively little visual impact - especially for an adult purchaser. Maybe there should be small end-to-end starter packs that could be erected on a shelf in a few minutes. A simple printed backscene and maybe one or two low-relief buildings (kits?) could set it off very nicely.

 

...R

 

I think the oval of track is a relic of the days when every kid wanted a train set, whereas it's my feeling that now it's more about the serious modelling aspect. I think you could do a pretty decent starter set based around something like a shunting puzzle, which is fun but can also be used to replicate something like a real railway. My suggestion would be an Inglenook, which is really easy to set up and wire etc, with a small locomotive and appropriate wagons. Package that with a clear set of instructions explaining how the puzzle works, how it relates to the prototype and how the newbie modeller could expand from there.

 

There's quite a good article by Carl Arendt about getting started with micro layouts, which explains many of the basic points. Something like this, but explaining some of the points in more detail (e.g. the different kinds of baseboard materials) could be a good starting point for the instruction booklet.

[Pacific231G]

That sounds like an interesting idea. However I suspect libraries are (unfortunately) past their use-by date.

 

It may also help if there was scope for newcomers to buy something to get them started - having invested a little the person might give it some thought when they get home, rather than forgetting all about it. However with so few model shops about that may be difficult to arrange.

 

Another thought ...

 

The usual "starter set" is an oval of track which occupies a fair amount of space for relatively little visual impact - especially for an adult purchaser. Maybe there should be small end-to-end starter packs that could be erected on a shelf in a few minutes. A simple printed backscene and maybe one or two low-relief buildings (kits?) could set it off very nicely.

 

...R

I can see definite potential in this idea.

 

I've been following Train'in Box, a crowd funded project promoted by LocoRevue*,  which is essentially an absolutely complete kit, including tools and glue (PVA) , to build a fully scenic model railway  I won't go into details because it's well explained here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Hs8GfnfZ4

 

(The video, which was aimed at crowd-funders to explain the concept is in French but totally self-evident) The idea is that in building it- perhaps with the kids or grandkids- you experience and acquire all the basic skills of railway modelling.  

 

It is an interesting and worthwhile initiative that uses quality materials suich as Peco track. I think though that the one downside for someone using it to start in the hobby is that the resulting layout, essentially a circuit with a loop and a couple of sidings  is a fairly bulky 110cms x 100cms that once built probably won't hold your interest for too long. Could one come up wiith an equivalent "kit" that would produce a simple but equally well finished layout easily stored that you would want to keep even after moving on to grander things? Inglenook is the very obvious answer but is maybe too much of a cliché and there may be less obvious approaches. I think the ideal would be somethnig that you could complete over a bank holiday weekend or a week or so of evenings, but not too simple so you would have a sense of achievement from building it and with enough scope for personalisation that it isn't just "painting by numbers".

 

I know that the NMRA used to (perhaps still do) run "Timesaver" events for scout groups and the like but Timesaver is usually a bare boards shunting competition rather than an exercise in complete layout building.   The French clubs and the FFMF are quite keen on diorama building as a way in to modelling and even run competitions. That probably suits their apparent preference for exquisitely modelled "scenes", often in lightboxes,  through which trains simply pass, but mght not suit our preference for "working" layouts. 

 

* I've been quite impressed by the amount of thought that Christian Fournereau, the MD of LocoRevue (a family owned company set up by his grandfather) and a number of experienced modellers have clearly put into promoting the future of the hobby in France. Apart from the crowd-funded Train'in Box, whose level of success I've not yet established, L-R Presse also came up in 2014 with a lower priced bi-monthly publication "Clés Pour le Train Miniature"  aimed firmly at the debutant modeller. As well as other articles and a free card building (a pretty good one) as a centre fold in every edition, they also strip across every six editions a start to finish layout project complete with detailed advice and costed lists of material that can be built in that year.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Lacathedrale]

I don't think an inglenook is a cliche outside of RMWeb I think the most important part about that is that it can be played-with as a Towers of Hanoi puzzle which gives it some kind of elevated purpose.

[Robin2]

My suggestion would be an Inglenook, which is really easy to set up and wire etc, with a small locomotive and appropriate wagons

That is certainly an option but I reckon that a straight length of track with a nice scenic effect (including something to give the impression of the train going off-scene) could be an effective starter kit. Something that people would be comfortable showing to friends.

 

Then there is endless scope for selling add-ons to extend it.

 

 

...R

 

PS ... Battery powered trains with remote control would avoid all the hassle of wiring. Why aren't model trains as simple as a quadcopter?

Edited October 29, 2018 by Robin2

[Phil Parker]

These aren't the only ones, but my point is - Why are the big names not doing this? This is how you get people interested. Trending videos, hashtags, retweets, etc.

 

I suspect, cost. It's very cheap to do this stuff when you have someone happy to do all the filming and editing for free, as well as buying all their own equipment. Setting up to do it as a commercial thing is a different kettle of fish. People expect TV quality production from a big name and that isn't cheap.

 

Also, trending videos, hashtags etc, do they result in sales? A lot of experience on Twitter suggests you can make a noise but get no commercial return. If you do it as a hobby, a rising number of views is enough reward. Telling the finance director that you got a lot of likes on Instagram doesn't impress him when the bill for the time and equipment comes through. There's a lot of Emperor's new clothes about all this stuff. A friend in marketing explained to me over lunch recently that there won't be any new Zoellas as firms have found very limited commercial return for supporting them. 

[Phil Parker]

I think the oval of track is a relic of the days when every kid wanted a train set, whereas it's my feeling that now it's more about the serious modelling aspect. I think you could do a pretty decent starter set based around something like a shunting puzzle, which is fun but can also be used to replicate something like a real railway. My suggestion would be an Inglenook, which is really easy to set up and wire etc, with a small locomotive and appropriate wagons. Package that with a clear set of instructions explaining how the puzzle works, how it relates to the prototype and how the newbie modeller could expand from there.

 

There's quite a good article by Carl Arendt about getting started with micro layouts, which explains many of the basic points. Something like this, but explaining some of the points in more detail (e.g. the different kinds of baseboard materials) could be a good starting point for the instruction booklet.

 

You say this, but look on Facebook and there are an awful lot of people building oval layout out there. The "Readers layouts" send in to magazines tend to be this sort of thing too. RMweb is a bit of a bubble full of serious modellers or at least people who like to think they are serious, it's not that representative of the wider grassroots hobby.

[Pacific231G]

I don't think an inglenook is a cliche outside of RMWeb I think the most important part about that is that it can be played-with as a Towers of Hanoi puzzle which gives it some kind of elevated purpose.

It was interesting at Wycrail in 2014 that, not for the first time, Ron North had his very nicely finished Inglenook "Littleworth Sidings". As usual he invited visitors to operate it and had a good take-up particularly from youngsters.  In 2016 he brought Amworth, a simple but very neat GW BLT on a single five foot (I think) board. The terminus was just a loop and two sidings and the fiddle yard was a simple track beyond a road bridge. Visitors were also invited to operate this layout but seemed far more reluctant. I did wonder whether they were afraid of making fools of themselves on this apparently more complex layout. If so they certainly missed out because if was a very nice little layout to operate and far less frustrating than trying to solve the Inglenook puzzle.I still think that having layouts that visitors can be invited to operate (and I don't mean roundy round kiddies layouts) is a good way to draw people in. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Pacific231G

[HillsideDepot]

You say this, but look on Facebook and there are an awful lot of people building oval layout out there. The "Readers layouts" send in to magazines tend to be this sort of thing too. RMweb is a bit of a bubble full of serious modellers or at least people who like to think they are serious, it's not that representative of the wider grassroots hobby.

 

I very much agree, and even in our bubble there are plenty who have oval layouts with ready-to-plant/card kit buildings, albeit their oval might fill the loft. Look in the background of some of the photos here when a new RTR loco is released. Quite a few will happily mix regions or eras, some happily mix both. These people probably won't ever have a layout thread, so perhaps the numerical balance is hard to judge, but you can bet they enjoy their model railway just as much as those spending years making a finescale replica of Hogg's Bottom East Junction at 14.53 on July 12th 1928. Each to their own, and every point in between!

 

Isn't there though scope for the trainset oval to have two sidings, wagon specific playing cards for the Inglenook puzzle and what we'd call the "limit of Shunt" markers being a tunnel mouth and the end of the platform (say). Obviously there would need to be an instruction sheet, explaining how it all works, and perhaps suggesting adding a crane and a goods shed (both with relevant catalogue numbers) as specific locations for wagons.Does that then make a zoom-it-round-and-round trainset also a game too, extending its interest? But not a computer/screen game, a real, 3D game. 

 

But maybe I'm sitting at the side of my region and era specific end-to-end and falling into the trap of thinking I know what the majority want from their model railway, trainset or whatever they which to call it.

 

['CHARD]

I don't think an inglenook is a cliche outside of RMWeb I think the most important part about that is that it can be played-with as a Towers of Hanoi puzzle which gives it some kind of elevated purpose.

 

Towers of Hanoi - I've learned something today! 

[RedgateModels]

You say this, but look on Facebook and there are an awful lot of people building oval layout out there. The "Readers layouts" send in to magazines tend to be this sort of thing too. RMweb is a bit of a bubble full of serious modellers or at least people who like to think they are serious, it's not that representative of the wider grassroots hobby.

 

Agreed, I've just finalised George's revised layout, guess what it's still a roundy roundy. OK with a station and a couple of sidings too

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

I can identify with that.

 

Just been asked by a friend to help them revive his 70s Hornby as his son (12) is showing interest.

 

I have been trying to persuade them that the standard 8' x 4' "roundy" is not the way to go. But that's what they want. To me,, it's not the way to engage an intelligent (mensa level) 12 yyear old.

[Pacific231G]

 

 

Isn't there though scope for the trainset oval to have two sidings, wagon specific playing cards for the Inglenook puzzle and what we'd call the "limit of Shunt" markers being a tunnel mouth and the end of the platform (say). Obviously there would need to be an instruction sheet, explaining how it all works, and perhaps suggesting adding a crane and a goods shed (both with relevant catalogue numbers) as specific locations for wagons.Does that then make a zoom-it-round-and-round trainset also a game too, extending its interest? But not a computer/screen game, a real, 3D game. 

 

 

Alan Wright built it long before Inglenook Sidings. It was the "Wright Lines" Railway of the Month in RM in March 1956. 4ft 6ins by 3ft OO. Handlaid track with a minimum radius one foot but with no. 5 points (aprox 3ft 6ins radius) using Peco cast frogs and an 0-4-0 Saddle Tank that could handle the tight curves. The goods yard was similar to  Inglenook sidings but he didn't mention any kind of shunting puzzle.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

Agreed, I've just finalised George's revised layout, guess what it's still a roundy roundy. OK with a station and a couple of sidings too

 

Capture.PNG

A reasonable amount of operaton in that. Train leaves the station uses the crossover to get onto the right track. Eventually the loco uses the loop to run round the train, uses the crossover to get to the appropriate track and fnally returns to the terminus where it can either run round the train or return to the depot.

 

Interesting that an adult friend of mine is building a layout fairly similar to this for himself  with the TT in the middle. He just wants to run his models and isn't worried about scenery. Loco-Revue christened such layouts "Locodromes" (as in Velodromes) and suggested several plans for them. Funny thing is that, though many here tend to look down on such layouts, nobody thinks it amiss when Model Engineering Societies build their running tracks on very similar lines.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Pacific231G

[RedgateModels]

It's also still to be a test track for me, so the set-track points and R1 curves stay. I'd have liked to drop an R3 loop in too just to run the APT-E but G wanted sidings and a station

 

The colours show the three 4x2 baseboards. The centre one can be omitted and it still work, although the centre R1 loop then gets orphaned from the rest. Still fine for a quick play

[souwest]

The main thing to do is to seize the opportunity and shout about what we are, what we do and get as much publicity and coverage as possible.

 

Example - RM this month shows St Neots club having a very largely female committee.  Nice to read in RM but - why not broadacsst to the wider world- BBC loves a First Woman On The Moon story, magazines which promote female advancement etc could be approached with a pre prepared article with a little forthought by a Secretary/ Publicity officer.

 

The usual demographic of railway modellers is well known, but if there is / are other demographics in you area why not try an outreach to these communities?  Translation of basic promotion publicity, arranging a talk at a community group if there are other groups who are currently not engaging.

 

There is a wealth of funding for organisations to "build bridges between communities" - make what you will of the wording - its the governments not mine, but it is worth looking into the funding application process, maybe even seeing if there is training for an individual in applying for the thousands of pounds of public money available for such a scheme?

 

Or perhaps its just all too much work and it's easier to pull the ladder up behind us?

 

Souwest

[Robin2]

You say this, but look on Facebook and there are an awful lot of people building oval layout out there. 

That's much the same as saying "lots of people eat cornflakes". As a statement it says nothing at all about the people who don't like cornflakes (or who don't have space for an oval layout). 

 

Nobody is saying "stop making oval starter layouts". But IMHO the genre needs to be broadened to include other types of starter layout to appeal to people with different tastes or different constraints.

 

...R

Edited October 29, 2018 by Robin2

[Phil Parker]

The problem with broadening the genre is that it becomes harder to explain. Suddenly every newbie is presented with a huge number of decisions. Most simply want trains running in circles, so that's the default position. If they want something different then a lot more help is required to work out what works best, and often to persuade them they would be happy with the suggested options. I've tried to explain the joys of an end-to-end layout to people who are obsessed with a continuous run but don't have space and it's not easy.

 

To use the breakfast analogy, if most people want cornflakes, give them cornflakes. Don't try to try to accommodate the person who wants lasagne by making cornflakes a harder option to get. 

[Barry O]

I have a suggestion or two.

 

Don't just sit on here wringing your hands saying x should do something..it is up to all railway modellers to engage with people to get them interested in model railways.

 

And..dont expect the people who do help others to do it on their own.

 

This may be one of the best opportunities available to get more people involved in our hobby. Don't just expect everyone else to do it..because they either won't or can't.

 

That includes the specialist societies as well as the major associations and groups. Stop whittling and get out and Just F@#4ing do something.

 

Baz

[Robin2]

Most simply want trains running in circles, so that's the default position.

Unless someone I have not heard about has tried selling attractive starter end-to-end layouts and failed then how can you know what "most want".

 

Children love things that fly around quickly and the only practical way to deliver that is with a circle or oval that repeats itself - otherwise the toy runs off into the next county.

 

I'm talking about a starter kit aimed at adult customers who, at least to start with, might wish to give the impression that they have bought a serious model train rather than a toy.

 

...R

 

PS ... when you consider all the recent model railway products produced in limited quantities for very small niche markets the concept of what "most" want seems a bit irrelevant.

[Chrisr40]

I must admit I do have an inward chuckle at the number of people where I work who have sidled up to me in the past few weeks and asked about model railways as if I was some elicit black marketeer.