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Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie


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Overall we seem to have three positions used above the number plate, namely: Immediately above, Above and to the side and Near the top of the bunker.

So far I have only found evidence of one position being used below the numberplate. (give or take a couple of inches)

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7 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Ok let’s put this to bed. Various locos from the Prairie Papers books.

5C76D089-1B91-4B8B-97A8-A4B01801FB96.jpeg

9B703DCD-7D96-4F4C-B484-365FF47029B2.jpeg

FDE8AB23-12A4-4823-B5C4-A79790F85674.jpeg

6D36DD01-D929-4538-8E0E-040B3D648915.jpeg

DBBD0A60-12AE-4A2B-9E79-8E8FE31A0E3A.jpeg

 

What are we putting to bed?

 

Half of those are in different positions....

 

I know the reason why they are in different positions, but do you?

 

 

 

Jason

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I know why those are in different positions above the number plate but, as can be seen from other photos, above the number plate was not universal even on locos in the same condition.

 

It certainly doesn't put anything "to bed"

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18 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

I was meaning the position of the route indicator disc on bunker step locos. 

What do you mean by the 'route indicator disc'?  Being pedantic do you mean the Route Availability and Power Class 'disc'?

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22 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I know the reason why they are in different positions, but do you?

Jason


What is the reason, and your source please?

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15 minutes ago, PMP said:


What is the reason, and your source please?

 

The photos above and thousands of others.

 

The discs on lined locomotives are in different places than ones without the lining. 

 

Look at 6151 and 6100 (I think, could be 6106) above. The disc is higher. The lined ones such as 5164 and 8102 are lower.

 

Hardly putting the matter to bed, but reinforcing the notion they were put in different positions.

 

So you've got foot steps, handrails and the livery dictating to where the discs were placed.

 

 

 

Jason

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53 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The discs on lined locomotives are in different places than ones without the lining. 

 

Jason


So the actual answer is you don’t have a source
Discs on locomotives were often in the same place regardless of lined or unlined.

4157 unlined black 27/06/64

4135 lined green 16/06/62. 

Same class, both at ‘6’ o’clock position with bunker steps. So your reason is invalidated. What we do know is the position varied.

Edited by PMP
Remove word for clarity
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5 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Do I need a source? I use my own eyes and I reckon I know more about Prairies than most since I was involved in the dismantling and part restoration of one.

 

Look at the photos or are you just trying to be abusive? They are still on the page you are looking at or are you just being an asswipe on purpose?

 

Why am I getting the flak? Not the person posting "Lets put that to bed?".

 

I pointed out the lining. Which means the discs are lower on the ones with it.

 

I would used photoshop or something to prove my point, but I don't have the knowledge on how to do it.

 

FFS. I don't need to argue with morons....

 

 

 

Jason

You ok hun?

 

Re the source I was thinking a prototype reference, eg GWR/WR paint specs, as clearly there are multiple positions for the RA marking to go on. You know to help establish a few actual reliable facts seeing no one has arrived with a definitive answer. Least of all it appears yourself, who said you knew the answer.

 

Because you’ve taken apart a real one and operated one doesn’t really help in determining if there’s a established protocol for where these markings go.

 

You did point out the lining, that is clearly irrelevant, due to the fact that lined praries have them underneath the plate in the same position as unlined versions. So no photoshop required, just looking at pictures.

 

NB. the pictures on this thread aren’t the only pictures of these engines available. Some of us have pictures taken at the time and books. You should try them sometime.

 

 

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No. I'm offended that you chose to pick on me rather than the person who is telling everyone to put the matter to bed or other posters.

 

I've looked at the pictures. They are in the Prairie Papers books and the hundreds of other books in my possession and all over the internet such as Warwickshire Railways, RCTS, HMRS, Rail Online.

 

Do you really think I haven't done that already? 

 

You are purposely trying to be abusive to me personally. For what reason I don't know. Nor do I care.

 

 

I'll make my own mind up, ta...….

 

 

 

Jason

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Getting back on topic swiftly.

 

You could have 2 Prairies in Swindon paint shop being painted at the same time with the discs placed in 4 different positions. No doubt there was a painting spec for the locos but the signwriters will have put then where it was easiest to apply.

The other thing to throw into the mix is if the loco had any medium repair and needed a quick touch up. The disc may have disappeared and a replaced in a different place. 

 

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Out of interest has anyone found a photo of one of these tanks in BR days with the disc on the upper forward area of the cab side sheet or on the sliding shutter as in GWR days?

I wondered whether some very early BR paint jobs, still done in GWR style livery but with "British Railways" insignia, might be like that.

 

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1 hour ago, Bulleidnutter said:

 

 The disc may have disappeared and a replaced in a different place. 

 


And there’s more than a few with no marking too, and likely some with it one side and not the other. As mentioned above if the position of the  marking is important to you, find a photo of ‘your’ engine and change it if required.


 

Edit

Re Melmerby above, not yet. Most of my images are BR but don’t cover GWR livery transition 

Edited by PMP
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4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

There is one picture of 4144 in preservation

 

but in the only other transition era picture I have seen the disc wasn't obvious.


The position there does tie in with a couple of pannier pictures I have. In those in GWR livery or ‘Block Egyptian’ British Railways livery the RA marking is next to the plate, rather than high cab side. It’d be a ballsy move to extrapolate that as a standard across Panniers let alone all types.

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It would appear that the Hornby  pages relating to the Large Prairie have been moved into the 'difficult to find' section of RMweb. I wonder why? Perhaps it's a Froth War breaking out in anticipation of this much-anticipated model. Surely not?

 

The ship carrying the Prairie models is circling the Azores, while carefully-chosen staff are removing said coloured dots, and putting them back on, but upside down.

 

As far as I know, Caerphilly put those RA discs on slightly different to everyone else, just like painting the reversing rods red on the tender locomotive. 

 

Find a photo, and relax. I'm sure there are-is some transfer entrepreneurs who will sell you as many RA discs as you or I will need. I'm just awaiting the model to finally appear. 

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56 minutes ago, PMP said:


The position there does tie in with a couple of pannier pictures I have. In those in GWR livery or ‘Block Egyptian’ British Railways livery the RA marking is next to the plate, rather than high cab side. It’d be a ballsy move to extrapolate that as a standard across Panniers let alone all types.

An interesting one is 6116 where in final GWR livery the discs on both sides were just off the top left hand corner of the numberplate.  I wonder if the painter did the one on teh step side first and then decided to match it on the Driver's side?   Overall I wouldn't mind betting the painters put the disc wherever they found it easiest to paint it and depending on what steps or staging they had handy. 

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I think this is WSR's 4160, looking very much like 4144 above, where the white 'W' below the plate forces the power and route disc to be above the plate.

http://www.uksteam.info/wsr/picsc/00082031.jpg

 

Note the white W has disappeared from 4144 and the power and route disc lowered in a later presentation:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prairie-pics/4144-british-railways.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

I think this is WSR's 4160, looking very much like 4144 above, where the white 'W' below the plate forces the power and route disc to be above the plate.

http://www.uksteam.info/wsr/picsc/00082031.jpg

 

Note the white W has disappeared from 4144 and the power and route disc lowered in a later presentation:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prairie-pics/4144-british-railways.jpg

 

Also one has to be careful with preservationist painting because while it can sometimes be extremely accurate using original records and, ideally, photos it can also go very badly wrong - e.g. the incorrect colour of the Route Availability disc on City of Truro at its most recent 'part of the National Collection' repaint.   Whether or not it has subsequently been corrected I don't know but the really amusing thing is that the disc was the correct colour when the engine was painted (on one side only) in the faux BR lined black livery at the SVR back in 1984/5.

 

Knowing the extent to which certain Hornby researchers go I don't doubt that what has been criticised in this thread about the position of the disc has been copied from a contemporaneous prototype photo.

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