Halts as Termini

[The Johnster]

And those were not in the public timetable, Ian, they were the workman's service, originating in Machen I believe but with connecting workman's from other valleys and Cardiff.

 

I think Old Ynysybwl probably comes nearest to the requirment; buffer stop after the line was truncated and a halt with no ticket office served by an auto with a guard who sold tickets on the train.

[Nearholmer]

Dyserth http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/d/dyserth/, should have remembered that.

 

It would indeed be hard to beat Old Ynysybwl for minimality, but that might not be the criterion.

 

Assuming it is, though, can any equal it, or even beat it? A shorter platform? Fewer fence posts? More weeds?

 

Can Scotland or the east of England not furnish any examples?

[Nearholmer]

Suddenly occurred to me that Boscarne Exchane Platform was a Halt, which served as a terminus, and it was pretty minimalistic https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/accars/79977boscarne.jpg

[The Johnster]

Dyserth http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/d/dyserth/, should have remembered that.

 

It would indeed be hard to beat Old Ynysybwl for minimality, but that might not be the criterion.

 

Assuming it is, though, can any equal it, or even beat it? A shorter platform? Fewer fence posts? More weeds?

 

Can Scotland or the east of England not furnish any examples?

 

For minimality, though not a terminus, Waterloo.  Not that one, the real one between Caerphilly and Machen on the Pontypridd, Caerphilly, and Newport line.  This consisted of a piece of timber to separate the track from the bare earth ground level platform, an occupation crossing, fence with gate, and a lamp.  The piece of timber was old sleepers laid end to end, 2 of them I think, and the service was autos, accessed via the folding steps.

 

No shelter, no seats, no platform surface, and I don't think there was a bulb in the lamp...

[Nearholmer]

Have you seen the picture of Ronaldsway Halt that put in the other 'halts' thread?

 

That was similar, only without the lamp, the gate, or the timber edging. It is simply a name-board and a hole in a hedge. and, it serves an international airport! Recent photos suggest that its had a major upgrade, because it now does have timber edging.

[Rhobat Bryn]

The only terminus on the Barry Railway was Barry Pier which was a four-road two-outside platform station, hardly a halt.  In addition to Old Ynysbwl Halt, the only other 'terminus' was Pontypridd Tram Road Halt on the PC&N from Caerphilly.  The line did however run on into Pontypridd (Taff Vale) for coal traffic even though the passenger traffic terminated at Tram Road.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Having googled Pontypridd Tram Road Halt, it appears that the service to it was operated by ADNR. 

 

Have I got that right?

 

And, does anyone know of a photo of their railmotors on the web? Were the circus coaches used as railmotor trailers, or autocoaches, or what?

 

kevin

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Having googled Pontypridd Tram Road Halt, it appears that the service to it was operated by ADNR. 

 

Have I got that right?

 

And, does anyone know of a photo of their railmotors on the web? Were the circus coaches used as railmotor trailers, or autocoaches, or what?

 

kevin

You have.  I can't recall seeing any picture of the circus coaches in use as trailer cars. (but that doesn't mean they found such use of course).

[The Stationmaster]

On 28/01/2019 at 22:05, Nearholmer said:

Suddenly occurred to me that Boscarne Exchane Platform was a Halt, which served as a terminus, and it was pretty minimalistic https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/accars/79977boscarne.jpg

An excellent little junction halt at which I actually changed trains (twice).  In fact it was a pair of halts which made what could be termed (loosely) as a 'junction station'.  Was that unique I wonder? 

[Bernard Lamb]

Heath Park Halt. Opened August 9th 1905.

This must qualify as a passenger terminus.

The LMS certainly issued tickets and in BR years there was the odd rail tour advertised with the halt included.

Bernard

[Nearholmer]

Indeed, it got a mention right at the start of the thread.

[mervyn]

Does Stourbridge town count ? Although it did have a goods line going further on .

[corneliuslundie]

Only workmen's services but it appears that there was a halt at the northern extremity of the Rhymney Railway's Cylla branch - from a junction just north of Ystrad Mynach. I  am not sure where they originated. It would have been bringing workmen to Penallta Colliery. There was correspondence about it in Welsh Railways Archive magazine.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Stourbridge Town was a station, not a Halt, wasn't it? I can't believe that a whopping great building, as it originally had, didn't contain a booking office.

 

And, going back to South Wales, having consulted my book of railcars (Kidner, 1939, no less), it seems that the ADNR had two steam rail motors, which lasted "five minutes" before being converted to trailers, which implies that they were then used in PP service. Some of the photos of their circus carriages show 'destination boxes', like a tram, on the eaves of the verandah, so I still wonder if they actually become PP trailers too.

 

The Rhymney rail motors, despite being seriously macho looking beasts, were apparently equally disappointing, but one hung on a bit longer to serve the "Penrhiwfelin workmen's trains" ....... might this be the service that Cornelius refers to? Kidner says that the loco portions were converted to 0-6-0T, but I read another source to imply that they became 0-4-2T ..... which is correct?

Edited March 24, 2019 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

The Rhymney rail motors, despite being seriously macho looking beasts, were apparently equally disappointing, but one hung on a bit longer to serve the "Penrhiwfelin workmen's trains" ....... might this be the service that Cornelius refers to? Kidner says that the loco portions were converted to 0-6-0T, but I read another source to imply that they became 0-4-2T ..... which is correct?

Both are correct!.  The two engine units were delivered as 0-4-0Ts but had the rear frames extended and a carrying wheel added thus converting them to 0-4-2T due to rough riding while still working as railmotor engines and fairly soon after entering traffic.    Car No.2 was converted to a separate engine and coach in 1910 and the rear frames of the engine were again altered and deepened in order to convert it into an 0-6-0T numbered 120.   Car No.1 survived as a railmotor until 1919 when it was similarly split and converted with the now 0-6-0T engine becoming number 121.

 

So not just an 0-4-2T and then an 0-6-0T but also, for a short while starting life as an 0-4-0T.  There can't have been many tank engines with a history of wheel arrangement changes like that - not even on the GWR.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

May I suggest Emerson Park on the LT&SR / MR / LMS?

 

It was built as a halt on a single-track line between Upminster on the LT&SR and Romford on the GER. In an effort to prevent passengers from defecting to the GER, the LT&SR used to reverse some trains at Emerson Park instead of continuing to Romford. Auto trains were used, but there was also a release loop installed beyond the platform. 

[Steamysandy]

Can I add North Berwick which was stripped down to a basic single platform in the1970s.Since then it's been electrified and the platform extended at the outer end

[Nearholmer]

Sandy

 

The ones that are really the subject here are places that were genuine Halts (no booking facility), before that term was abolished c1967, and where train services terminated.  If NB fits that description, its 'in'.

 

Titanius

 

Emerson Park is a cracking find, I had no idea it was a terminating point ...... the OS maps show the loop and signalbox on the Romford side of the station, and Bradshaw contains a note about extra trains Emerson Park to Upminster only, quite obviously timed to hoover-up commuters and take them to Fenchurch St. I wonder if the loop was used more as a lay-by for the motor train than for running-round [EDIT: No, it was for running round, and was removed when push-pull trains were introduced]. I rather like EP station, because it is pretty much unchanged since construction; it was very tatty indeed for a while, but TfL spruced it up very nicely. Apart from the signage, it still looks like this 

 

 

Kevin

Edited March 25, 2019 by Nearholmer

[corneliuslundie]

Yes, that would be the service, though I failed to find the reference when I was looking. Can you kindly give the reference?

This is how I started the discussion in WRA:

"There are several illustrations in  John Hutton’s volume 2 [on the Rhymney railway], one of which shows the site of the former Penrhiwfelin Halt (p90) at what was evidently the end of the line and is shown on a 1948 OS map. This halt is not mentioned by Cooke. However, another source states that in addition to an unadvertised workmen’s service the halt was mentioned in Bradshaw for three months in 1911. Hutton is apparently incorrect in stating that the branch was extended two miles to Pentrefelin Halt in 1909 (page 85), though in his book he includes a Railway Magazine map dated 1910 which seems to show the line as extending further north than Pengam on the main line. In addition, in volume 1 by Hutton there is a reproduction of a TVR map dated 1910 which shows the end of the completed branch just beyond Penallta Colliery with a further length shown as “authorised” about the same length as in the Railway Magazine map."

But I didn't get much in the way of definite answers.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Cornelius

 

I'm playing jigsaw puzzles blindfolded with this, because I get really confused by place names and railway geography in South Wales, but:

 

- this website has a Rhymey railway chronology, showing the Cylla Branch completed as far as Penrhiwfelin in 1906, and fully completed (to where, I can't work out!) in 1909 https://www.railscot.co.uk/chronology/dates.php?coname=Rhymney Railway;

 

- Kidner, The Railcar 1847-1939, Oakwood 1939, briefly describes the steam rail motors, and my copy, Kidner's personal copy, donated to the RCTS, then sold as excess stock, has his pencilled annotations to sources; here he gives Locomotive Magazine 1904/172; and,

 

- the Wikipedia entry for the Rhymney Railway cites another book by Kidner, The Rhymney Railway, Oakwood 1995 as the source for use of one of the steam rail motors on the Penrhiwfelin workmen's trains ......... if only we had his personal copy of that, we might have an annotation as to where he gleaned that information from!

 

The Wikipedia entry also has some info about the Cylla Branch, for which it cites Barrie, The Rhymney Railway, Oakwood 1952 ...... perhaps Kidner's book about the line was a revision of that one, and he carried the information forward.

 

Now all we need is a photo!

 

Kevin

 

EDIT: This is interesting http://www.hengoed.net/index.php?x=penallta ........ the dates of construction and opening of the colliery align closely with those given for the railway branch, which makes good sense.

 

EDIT: No wonder I get confused, there were two Penallta Collieries, one spelled with a 'u' at the end, served by the earlier Ystrad Mynach to Penallta(u) Junction Line, and the later (1906) one, served by the newly-built Cylla Branch and the halt in question.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Nearholmer

[south_tyne]

I don't know whether this has been highlighted before, apologies if so, but for another example how about the Beck Hole branch in the Esk Valley, North Yorkshire? 

[corneliuslundie]

Yep! Penalltau colliery was nearer Nelson & Llancaiach station on the PPL-Neath line, and was originally served, I have a feeling, by the Taff Vale Railway Nelson branch which crossed what was later the PPL-Neath line. But that is another story.

My uncertainty about the Cylla branch stems from the fact that despite what is in the two books you cite there also seems to be contradictory evidence.

I would love a model of one of the Rhymney SRMs as they were quite distinctive and I have a good maker's photo. perhaps one day.

But this is all well off topic.

One question for those who are really discussing the subject in hand. Are we solely interested in halts which were termini because they were built that way, as there are many "halts" now on the railway network which are terminating points but which started out as manned station? For the latter just in South wales it includes most of the valleys lines.

Jonathan

 

[Nearholmer]

See Post 1 for ToR.

 

my reading is that the branch opened to the halt and goods station in 1906, was used to bring in materials to construct the huge colliery, then began to be used in earnest for coal traffic from 1909.

 

if you try the London Gazette, you might be able to find draft acts for extensions.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

South Tyne

 

i found the picture below, and it certainly looks as if it might qualify.

 

can you point to any more info about Beck Hole? 

 

Kevin

Edited March 26, 2019 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

And back to Penrhiwfelin.  Information in the GWR's details of line authoristation and opening shows the Cylla Branch as authorised on 30 May 1895 from Ystrad Mynach to Penrhiw Felin (sic) Goods and opening on 1 August 1906.  Hutton confirms the 1906 opening to L Panallta but quotess 1909 for opening through to Penriwfelin.

 

The original Oakwood Press book on the Rhymney was written by Derek Barrie - in the course of his covering many of the South Wales companies for the Oakwood series - alas I haven't got a copy.  The RCTS GWR locos history has quite a lot about the Rhymney railmotors and their conversion to separate coaches and tank engines but has no mention of them working over the Cylla Branch. However originally one was based at Rhymney and worked between Rhymney, Ystrad Mynach and  Merthyr but for only the three years  up to 1910,  that working ended when the first of the cars was withdrawn for 'separation'.  The other car remained based on Senghenydd working to Caerphilly and later Machen as well until it was 'separated' in 1919/20.  There was no change to the original notes in respect of these cars/locos in the RCTS addenda published in 1993.

 

Tony Cooke's 'Atlas of the GWR' shows no passenger halts on the Cylla branch but he continues his research to this day for revision of his books covering individual sections of route so he might yet come up with something for whenever the section covering the upper Rhymney Valley is reissued.  However even if there was a colliers' service the provision of platforms would have been unlikely in early ears.  The  1:25,000 193 -61 OS Map shows no sign of a halt at Rhiwderin (although it definitely shows Old Ynysybwl Halt).  However the 1892-1914 25" OS map shows something titled 'Pen-rhiw-felin Halt' on one of the sidings at the upper end of the branch.  The position of signal posts on that map suggests the upper section of the line may well have been signalled to handle passenger trains

 

Even more usefully the presence of a halt also mentioned in this document

 

https://www.rchs.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/QuickSupplement1-final.pdf

 

Which has the following entry for it -  

 

 

Which takes us back to the railmotor because the dates shown are after the car based at Rhymney had been withdrawn and according to the RCTS the other car was at that time based at Senghenydd.  However the first 'separated' loco part of the other railmotor was, according to the RCTS work,  also based at Senghenydd alongside the surviving railmotor into the year in which, according to the above, Penrhiwfelin Halt opened although perhaps not as late as October.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by The Stationmaster
Get rid on unwanted image