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Porkscratching

Why no 00 / 4mm tube stock?

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For a while I've fancied doing a 1938 stock set, I lived at Elephant and Castle through much of the 80s and frequently travelled on these with their red livery and green interiors.

Having looked around it seems you just can't get underground stuff at all!

I found one very sparse 'site' that kind of implied they 'might' be producing something but not very encouraging.....so is it a case of scratch building as the only option here?

If so, any idea where some decent working plans/ drawings could be found?

Excuse my ignorance I've only recently thought of persuing this....!

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27 minutes ago, Porkscratching said:

For a while I've fancied doing a 1938 stock set, I lived at Elephant and Castle through much of the 80s and frequently travelled on these with their red livery and green interiors.

Having looked around it seems you just can't get underground stuff at all!

I found one very sparse 'site' that kind of implied they 'might' be producing something but not very encouraging.....so is it a case of scratch building as the only option here?

If so, any idea where some decent working plans/ drawings could be found?

Excuse my ignorance I've only recently thought of persuing this....!

 

London Underground is a niece modelling area and as such offers limited opportunities for making money as far as the RTR big boys are concerned, hence they normally stay well clear (although Bachmann did make the new S stock for the London Transport Museum and Hejan have done the 'Sarah Siddons' type electric loco).

 

However EfE produce di-cast models of the 1938 stock you remember travelling on in the 00 scale and which will run on ordinary HO track.

 

They are however non-motorised BUT it is possible to correct this with a bit of time and effort.

 

Have a look at this website which goes into some detail about what you need to do. http://www.metromodels.net/services.htm

 

The raw material as it were is sold by quite a few retailers and is not hard to find https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklistdatabase/1000397/1000588/1000671/0/EFE_OO_Gauge_1_76_Scale_Underground_vehicles/prodlist.aspx

Edited by phil-b259

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Is this any help?

http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/london-underground-metropolitan-cammell-1938-stock/

image.png.a3f4764463b236c75349489e9935b342.png

£205 for a 4-Car EMU may not seem cheap, but I think they're made (motorised) to order and that's about the same cost as a conventional RTR 2-Car EMU these days. I intend to buy a set eventually if I can't find another way of doing it.

Edited by sem34090
Just to add - these are the EFE models, but made RTR by Silver Fox.

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2 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

 I intend to buy a set eventually if I can't find another way of doing it.

 

Ahem...

 

http://www.metromodels.net/EFE_notes.pdf

http://www.metromodels.net/EFE_motorisation_instructions_1214.pdf

http://www.metromodels.net/EFE_trailing_bogie_upgrade_instructions_1214.pdf

 

Or pay someone else to do it http://www.metromodels.net/services.htm

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Yes, but getting hold of the EFE tube stock isn't cheap in itself and the way my family finances work I can probably more easily justify a complete RTR set than I can bits to motorise one, some static cars that I will be hacking the chassis of to pieces or paying someone to do the hacking. Also, £124 just to get the motor cars done, another £36 to get the trailers done... that's £160 without even buying the cars, and one of those can set you back approaching £40.

 

But yes,  I take the point that there are other ways of doing it. It just struck me that Silver Fox currently offer the cheapest.

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18 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

Yes, but getting hold of the EFE tube stock isn't cheap in itself and the way my family finances work I can probably more easily justify a complete RTR set than I can bits to motorise one, some static cars that I will be hacking the chassis of to pieces or paying someone to do the hacking. Also, £124 just to get the motor cars done, another £36 to get the trailers done... that's £160 without even buying the cars, and one of those can set you back approaching £40.

 

But yes,  I take the point that there are other ways of doing it. It just struck me that Silver Fox currently offer the cheapest.

 

Agreed, its a lot simpler to by the RTR Silver Fox offering (and the route I would probably take if I was in the market for such a thing) - but for some on here the building / kitbashing of a model is all part of the fun as it were.

 

One thing about EFE is they also do 1959 central line stock - which may be useful for someone looking to do something mixing mainline and tube stock based in east or west London.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

London Underground is a niece modelling area

 

Unfortunately none of my nieces have shown any interest in model railways, let alone the underground, despite it being on their doorstep.

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2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Unfortunately none of my nieces have shown any interest in model railways, let alone the underground, despite it being on their doorstep.

 

Dam you autocorrect! ;)

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I would suggest looking at the Radley Models website, as they make a wide range of tube and surface stock as resin (mainly) models, with motorising kits. However, it seems that they have a new website which has more problems that RMweb has had, and it is virtually impossible, at least on my tablet, to get much sense out of it, but a serious enquiry by email might elicit something of interest.

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I think that was the site I found and it seemed fairly, erm , unpromising shall we say....., but email them is a good plan, it may get a more useful insight into what they actually can supply.

My preference ideally would probably be to get some body shells or dummies and build up, detail and motorise them myself, rather than ready to rock stuff to just plonk on some track.

Obviously it's a bit of a limited 'gene pool' with this stuff, but much appreciated for all your input so far, all suggestions gratefully received.!:good_mini:

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I believe Bachmann produced S-Stock under license to the LT museum, but even sufficiently focused it was a tough commercial proposition and a quantity was ultimately re-positioned by LT.  It's strange how LT buses are hugely popular, but their tube cousins simply don't command the same following that will actually make purchases.

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Radley models just this week released 1935 stock, they also do kits of 1938 stock

 

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There is and has been a reasonable amount of London Underground rolling stock available.  Not all in ready-to-run condition, true, since many have been in kit form and of the others the majority (being the EFE models) are unpowered and not built to roll nicely along track.

 

But these issues can all be overcome.  EFE sets can be powered and re-wheeled to give a decent motorised model.  Bachmann has released its S-stock for the sub-surface lines and the ex-GWR pannier tanks and Heljan Metropolitan electric locomotives can be included in the bracket of London Underground rolling stock though (along with S-stock) not strictly "tube" stock.  Even an SR 4TC unit as released by Kernow MRC can be used on an Underground layout.

 

There are an awful lot of gaps however.  Underground modelling is a bit of a niche market despite the size of the system and how well known it is.  There is no proprietary four-rail track, engineering locomotives or wagons, suitable signals nor infrastructure such as tunnel mouths and the distinctive bridges and cable arches used.  Kingsway offer some easily-built card kits of a tube station platform (which is long enough for a 4-car EFE unit) and interior details; they are nothing flash but look reasonably convincing.  Then there are the various EFE / Bachmann surface buildings, escalators and other ephemera such as seated and roundels meaning it is possible to create a tube station scene without too much detailed modelling if one merely places a static train at the platform.

 

It gets more complex and more expensive the farther you go which is common to many areas of the hobby.  Metal or resin kit building isn't learned in an instant; motoring an EFE tube train may be a job for the experts; scratch-building the many components seen along tube lines, through stations and into tunnel mouths is all a part of modelling but again does not happen overnight.  

 

But to start out there is rolling stock out there even though the EFE trains are highly sought-after and can be pricey second-hand.  They also tend to sell out quickly when a (rare) new model is announced.  Look around.  Learn.  And enjoy.

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There used to be a range of good white metal kits from Harrow Models/Harrow Model Shop but the latter closed down many years ago now and I don't know what happened to the range.  They were reasonably priced, went together pretty well and with a bit of effort made for a nice model.  Always got the impression there was a chap in the Harrow Model Shop attic casting these in some dark room somewhere, one kit I bought once from them I could swear the contents were still warm...

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I'd definately be wanting to go the kit build type route with this.

Radley it seems have a phone number! I will attempt to give them a bell next week and see what the score is....it's often better to have a proper conversation with a real person!

Again thanks gents for the advice and info...

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2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

There used to be a range of good white metal kits from Harrow Models/Harrow Model Shop but the latter closed down many years ago now and I don't know what happened to the range.  They were reasonably priced, went together pretty well and with a bit of effort made for a nice model.  Always got the impression there was a chap in the Harrow Model Shop attic casting these in some dark room somewhere, one kit I bought once from them I could swear the contents were still warm...



Many of the Harrow kits went to Phil Radley, although he has also re-released many of the original white metal ones with one-piece resin body shells, and added to the range.

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It is, of course, ironic that the very first ready-to-run emu produced in the UK was of a London Underground train - released  by Ever Ready, the battery producer, in the early 1950s.

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Porkscratching - you'll find Phil Radley accommodating when you are able to contact him.  He does complete kits and sometimes just bodies.

 

You mentioned OO but adding third and fourth rails (Peco conductor rail and insulators) looks much better on EM or P4 track.....  Tenshodo powered bogies can easily be converted to EM or P4.

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Duplicate post removed

Edited by Jeff Smith

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On 05/04/2019 at 21:26, Nick Holliday said:

I would suggest looking at the Radley Models website, as they make a wide range of tube and surface stock as resin (mainly) models, with motorising kits. However, it seems that they have a new website which has more problems that RMweb has had, and it is virtually impossible, at least on my tablet, to get much sense out of it, but a serious enquiry by email might elicit something of interest.

It is usually better to phone Phil Radley than use the website if you're finding it difficult to navigate.

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Over the years I have acquired numerous models of Standard, 35, 38, and 59 stock. While I haven't yet motorized any of the EFE cars I have added the improved wheels from Metro Models and had no problems following the instructions. Radley Models is a pleasure to do business with and I have quite a few of their kits, mainly Standard stock.

 

I had hoped that once Bachmann had acquired EFE that they would have offered the underground stock but alas this has not yet happened, if it will at all.

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Just been reading this topic. Phil is very helpful and if you give him a call he will be able to advise what he has. The range is always expanding. The next stock being prepared for production is the 1967/72 tube stock.

E5E8EBE4-F1C4-45A9-9397-D0015912D85F.jpeg

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It would be nice to see that shrunk down to N scale as well but then the distinct lack of any chassis to put under it rears its ugly head again.

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