New Hornby class 31.

[Guest]

Hi all.

Just a word of warning here.

I bought a brand new Hornby class 31, only just been released, i had it on pre order from hattons for a while. 

Only had it 2 days and it has stopped working completely. Seems like there is no power going from the pick ups to motor.

I have contacted Hattons regarding a refund or replacement , i mean this loco was not cheap , im fuming , say what you like about the old lima locos but they just bloody work forever , not 2 days.

So if anyone is thinking of getting one of these new (not the previous mazak rot type) BEWARE . yes they look lovely ,but they are crap , i will certainly think twice about buying new Hornby again.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The likelihood is that one track power input has disconnected on the socket. That's the single fault that will leave a model electrically dead, as there will be no power to motor or lights.

[Chrisr40]

So that people can try and help you what fault finding have you done ? It could be something as trivial as a loose blanking plug etc if it was working fine for 2 days prior. I know it doesn't make you feel any better but occasionally problems crop up with a new model and it obviously isn't all of the new Hornby 31s or this forum would flooded with angry customers. RM Web is a brilliant source of information but also of help from like minded model railways enthusiasts. Give everyone some info and then maybe we can get you going again. 

Best wishes

Chris

[Guest]

No info to give that has not been said,it just stopped working after 2 days. I have not done anything to the loco other than take it out of the box and fit the nem coupings.

[Les Bird]

I think to describe the Hornby 31 as crap is a little harsh. I had a problem with a B12 some while ago and it was replaced without any problems, The replacement works perfectly.  Just because there is a problem with one product it doesn't mean that they are all faulty.

 

[Chrisr40]

Okay just go through the simple things first. Clean track ?, clean wheels ?, are other locos working okay with your controller ?, is the dcc blanking plug in place if it's not dcc fitted. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Chrisr40

[Guest]

Yes all other locos running fine,track is perfect , just done a quick body off check and yes blanking plug is ok etc.

All i did was replace the small narrow nem couplings with some of the wider nem couplings then it stopped working , cant see how just plugging in some couplings would stop a loco working.

As too my statement about being crap...i stand by it , when you spend £160 on a loco i expect it to work , when you can get a 40 quid lima that is still working 30 plus years on and will still be running in another 30 years .

[Gwiwer]

Focus.  

 

One loco which worked well for a couple of days and now doesn't is not necessarily indicative of the entire release which is probably be thousands of locos.  A very few might have problems.  The assembly might have been less than 100% or something might have come slightly adrift in the shipping process.  These things happen.  They don't turn an entire release into "crap".

 

It may very well be that there is something inside which the user can rectify.  Loose blanking plate has been suggested and is very quickly fixed.  All you need to do is carefully pop the body off (or unscrew it - I haven't seen this loco yet to know how it is assembled) and check the plate for a good tight fit.  A quick inspection will then usually reveal anything else which might be amiss such as a loose wire.  Those might require more specialist attention but are extremely rare now that all joints are factory-soldered.  The days of spade connectors are long gone.

 

If you don't feel confident in taking a body off or if you still cannot get the loco to work then perhaps a fellow RMwebber might be able to offer help.  We don't bite.  Some of us are extremely knowledgeable and helpful.  

 

To write the entire release off in the terms used on the basis of one locomotive which does not work without having investigated the problem is more than harsh - it is grossly unfair.  

[JDW]

Yeah, it's irritating when something goes wrong, but I think your first step to rectifying it should be to step back and take a deep breath.  Getting mad isn't going to help, you'll either end up going in heavy handed and breaking something, missing something obvious, or getting into a slanging match with the retailer.  I had a problem recently with a loco, couldn't understand why it wouldn't run smoothly having previously been fine and not been used since I last cleaned the wheels and pick ups.  After a while, I got frustrated, left it, came back a day later and spotted the problem within a minute after working through the potential issues in order.

 

These things happen, I've had locos of various ages and makes go wrong.  My at-the-time-expensive Lima Yeoman class 59 went back the day after I bought it as it just wouldn't run right.  I have ongoing problems with one of my Bachmann 66s.  It's infuriating, and probably shouldn't happen, but rather than write it off, follow the advice above when you've calmed down and focussed a bit, otherwise send it back and ask for a replacement.  That shouldn't be a major issue, especially as you bought it from Hattons who are pretty good at dealing with things like that I believe.  

 

Of course, if you're really not happy, you could always swap it for a couple of second hand Lima ones, with enough change to have one of them repainted in that particular livery...

[Guest]

yeah,i have calmed down a bit now. I am not going to take the loco apart and start messing trying to fix it , as i have only had it a few days it will be going back to hattons. unlike the older Hornby / lima locos which are a doddle to work on these new ones are a different story. Looking closely at the bogies i cant see how or where the pick ups are.

Thanks for the replys chaps.

[Mike Buckner]

I had a Hornby Class 31 (rotating fan model) a few years ago. Although it didn't have the mazak problem, it exhibited frequent start/stop behaviour at random locations on the freshly-cleaned layout, no other loco having problems. Perhaps it had loose solder joints affected by being in motion?  I would have been able to disassemble it (with difficulty), but there is no way, with my 3 thumbs and limited dexterity, that I would have been able to re-assemble it with everything in place and all the lights working. Too complicated for people with basic skills. Got rid of it.

 

Also had a Hornby Class 40 which stopped dead. This one, being of simple construction, I could attend to. The Chinese factory had used very thin wires and weak solder joints. Re-soldering cured the problem - which occurred on 2 occasions in separate places.

 

Made a vow to buy no more Hornby, and have stuck to it now for several years.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Mike Buckner
Afterthought

[Legend]

While I appreciate you can’t dismiss a model as crap because one doesn’t work, I completely agree that you should send it back . It might be something simple, but these models are complex and I wouldn’t be confident messing about with it .  

[Bernard Lamb]

12 hours ago, matto3868 said:

Yes all other locos running fine,track is perfect , just done a quick body off check and yes blanking plug is ok etc.

All i did was replace the small narrow nem couplings with some of the wider nem couplings then it stopped working , cant see how just plugging in some couplings would stop a loco working.

As too my statement about being crap...i stand by it , when you spend £160 on a loco i expect it to work , when you can get a 40 quid lima that is still working 30 plus years on and will still be running in another 30 years .

But in the real world it does not work like that.

You pay £160 and receive a model.

A certain percentage will be faulty.

The maker will not tell you what percentage, but his QC has a set level that is reviewed and revised as required by the commercial people.

if you are unlucky and get a faulty one, you send it back to the retailer and they will replace, repair or refund.

If you want more intensive checks and a much lower failure rate it will cost you a lot.

That is why a motor car is relatively dearer than a model train and why an aircraft is dearer than a car.

The market place  and public opinion set the standard.

It would be an interesting exercise to calculate just how much a Lima locomotive would cost to make today.

Bernard

[Sir TophamHatt]

Out of interest:

How did the loco stop? (did it just stop, or did you stop it and it wouldn't go again?)

I assume you're on DC (hence you checked the blanking plug)?

Did you take the blanking plug out and reseat it?

[Guest]

Yes on DC,I also run DCC but had not converted this loco as yet,was running in on DC.  It stuttered a little on the corners then just refused to go,no lights or anything,just dead.

[cypherman]

I can fully understand your frustration at this, But one bad loco does not mean all of them are bad. In mass production sometimes problems occur with the odd item. If you compare this to the silicone chip industry about 1 out of every 3 microchips are thrown out because it does not pass the QC stage. It is the same for all massed produced items.Just out of idle curiosity have you tried put power directly to the motor. If it runs then the problem is probably a pick up one. Do any of the wires appear bent or look like they have been trapped. A trapped wire may break the central core and although look ok from the outside will not make a circuit . Does this engine have multiple pick up point on both the bogies. check that they all work. Try powering up one side of the motor directly at the motor and then try all the pick ups for the other side. Then do the same for the other side. If one side works then you have narrowed down the faulty section. If neither work then it is probably not a pick up problem. It could also be a dry joint in the wiring. To check this out you really need a meter(If you do not have a meter a battery in a case, 1 small light bulb in it's holder,2 bits of wire, 2 crocodile clips put in to a circuit will make a simple method to check there is a circuit between 2 points on your wiring) to check each circuit to see where the power is not passing through. You say that the blanking plate is firmly in place. But have you checked it out for any damage. I had  a similar  problem with the Hogwarts Castle I picked up cheap as a none runner with every one scratching their heads. Fixed it by completely removing the old blanking plate and replacing it with a new blanking plate.

Edited May 6, 2019 by cypherman

[royaloak]

17 hours ago, matto3868 said:

Yes all other locos running fine,track is perfect , just done a quick body off check and yes blanking plug is ok etc.

All i did was replace the small narrow nem couplings with some of the wider nem couplings then it stopped working , cant see how just plugging in some couplings would stop a loco working.

As too my statement about being crap...i stand by it , when you spend £160 on a loco i expect it to work , when you can get a 40 quid lima that is still working 30 plus years on and will still be running in another 30 years .

Dont ever buy a new car then, if you think a £160 model having a (probably small) problem is such a major issue I wonder how you would feel about a £20,000 car having issues!

 

Have you done any sort of fault finding?

[Fat Controller]

The 'pick-ups' are actually the ends of the axles, which fit into a brass 'bearing' plate that sits inside the bogie sideframe. This is connected by a very thin wire to the motor. It's possible that, when changing the coupling, you broke one of these soldered joints, which are pretty flimsy.

This should take you the appropriate Service Sheet, which has an exploded diagram:-

https://www.Hornby.com/us-en/downloads/view/index/cat/24/

[Guest]

On close inspection now I know where the pick ups are, I can see that 2 wires , one each end above the centre wheels have come off from the pick ups,hence no power,as it's a new loco I'm not going to try and fix it by re soldering,I shall await what hattons have to say as regards a replacement/ refund.

Thanks for the useful info,the Hornby download diagrams etc.

New car , haha never bought a brand new car never will , plus when my motors do have problems,my mate works for the RAC and does my jobs ,very very cheaply,but what that has to do with model railways is beyond me.

[gismorail]

I think your answer is really quite simple just send it back to Hattons and get it replaced wouldn't even bother taking the body off as it might invalidate the warranty. If the replacement does the same demand your money back and then get mad !!!!!!!

[JDW]

22 hours ago, matto3868 said:

yeah,i have calmed down a bit now. I am not going to take the loco apart and start messing trying to fix it , as i have only had it a few days it will be going back to hattons. unlike the older Hornby / lima locos which are a doddle to work on these new ones are a different story. Looking closely at the bogies i cant see how or where the pick ups are.

Thanks for the replys chaps.

 

That part is certainly true - I find I can do the mechanical and simple electrical parts (wires, pick ups) fine if something goes wrong.  I've just stripped and rebuilt a Hornby 60 which had seized after sitting on a display shelf for years (strangely the two other 60s it was with were fine!).  But if it involves electronics, eg a circuit board, with tiny wires and fiddly soldering in close proximity, I just haven't the skill or knowledge (or small enough soldering iron!) to do anything.  It does still scare me to take apart an expensive and delicate modern model though!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

18 hours ago, matto3868 said:

...never bought a brand new car never will , plus when my motors do have problems,my mate works for the RAC and does my jobs ,very very cheaply,but what that has to do with model railways is beyond me.

Knowledge is valuable. Learn about the relatively simple machine that is a model railway loco and you can quickly fix them instead of losing your rag, just as your knowledgeable friend with the RAC can fix cars. It's a simple choice...

[Legend]

I think it is missing the basic point . Buy something at £40, £160 or even £20000 for a new car , you expect it to go or perform as advertised, not to conk out after 2 days.  We shouldn't have to fettle it , repair it, investigate it.   Yes , those with knowledge might have a look to avoid the hassle of sending it back  but the critical point is it should have been fit for purpose to begin with .     

[Phil Parker]

Everyone calm down. The model is under warranty and can be sent back - this is the correct way to deal with it.

 

To suggest that one faulty model means, as the OP suggests, that an entire manufacturers range is faulty is counter to most people's experience.

[AY Mod]

Agreed; topic locked to save the OP from himself.