2 character DMU headcodes?

[Firecracker]

Maybe not the best title, but here goes.  Early DMU’s and rail buses carry a 2 character ‘headcode’ (A2, B2, etc.).  How do these work?  Are they just the first two characters of a 4 digit train reporting number (1T17 for example) or is there more to them?  Photo nicked from Westerns ‘The Ingleton branch’ to illustrate.

 

Thanks in advance

Owain

[jonny777]

I always understood the letter to indicate the train class, i.e. A = express or limited stop; B = all/most station stopper; C = ECS.  The number indicated a local route number laid out in the operating instructions. 

 

But I might have this wrong. 

[DaveF]

Ian Allan used to publish books on BR headcodes in the abc series.

 

They can sometimes be found secondhand.

 

They give a snapshot of 2 and 4 character codes at the time of publication, as well as the various light codes used on some trains, including some emus.

 

David

 

 

[rab]

22 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Ian Allan used to publish books on BR headcodes in the abc series.

 

They can sometimes be found secondhand.

 

They give a snapshot of 2 and 4 character codes at the time of publication, as well as the various light codes used on some trains, including some emus.

 

David

 

 

Out of interest I googled the Ian Allen books

but they don't seem to be available.

I did find this though:

http://uksteam.info/gwr/hcodes.html.

 

Not sure how relevant it is to the original question.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Firecracker said:

Maybe not the best title, but here goes.  Early DMU’s and rail buses carry a 2 character ‘headcode’ (A2, B2, etc.).  How do these work?  Are they just the first two characters of a 4 digit train reporting number (1T17 for example) or is there more to them?  Photo nicked from Westerns ‘The Ingleton branch’ to illustrate.

 

Thanks in advance

Owain

Hi Owain

 

Each region had its own ideas.

 

From the book David mentioned

 

The LMR and NER used a a combination of a letter denoting the class of train and a number to indicate the route the train was taking. Some times the up and down services over the same route had different codes. There was a limit on the number of codes that could be used so 4 might be used quite a few times as long as there was not two 4s traversing the same stretch of line.

 

The Scottish Region used the numerical classification for the type of train and the letter for its destination. The Glasgow blue trains used two numbers and the differed either side of the city. The north the first was destination and the second route and if it was a fast or stopping train. The south used the first for what type of train and the second for destination and route.

 

The ER used the number for the class of train and the letter for the destination, which was a bit confusing because most DMUs leaving or arriving at Kings Cross carried 2B, 2 for ordinary passenger and B for the London district which went as far north as Cambridge. There was an exception the services in Lincolnshire had there own combination of numbers and letters denoting the service the train was on. 

 

The Ian Allan book does not mention the WR two figure codes and I cannot find my notes regarding the WR.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Firecracker]

1

23 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Owain

 

Each region had its own ideas.

 

From the book David mentioned

 

The LMR and NER used a a combination of a letter denoting the class of train and a number to indicate the route the train was taking. Some times the up and down services over the same route had different codes. There was a limit on the number of codes that could be used so 4 might be used quite a few times as long as there was not two 4s traversing the same stretch of line.

 

The Scottish Region used the numerical classification for the type of train and the letter for its destination. The Glasgow blue trains used two numbers and the differed either side of the city. The north the first was destination and the second route and if it was a fast or stopping train. The south used the first for what type of train and the second for destination and route.

 

The ER used the number for the class of train and the letter for the destination, which was a bit confusing because most DMUs leaving or arriving at Kings Cross carried 2B, 2 for ordinary passenger and B for the London district which went as far north as Cambridge. There was an exception the services in Lincolnshire had there own combination of numbers and letters denoting the service the train was on. 

 

The Ian Allan book does not mention the WR two figure codes and I cannot find my notes regarding the WR.

 

 

 

 

Cheers matey (and everyone else who chipped in).   That makes perfect sense.  I’m modelling LMR (arbeit as a preserved line) so that makes it nice and easy.  The upshot is that I can probably get away with B2 as a all-stopper (if I’ve understood that correctly?).

 

Thanks again one and all.

 

Owain

[chrisf]

A summary of the answer is "it depends".   As far as the WR was concerned many of its units - the Swindon 120 Cross-Country sets and the first batch of 116s - did not have the two character headcode panels.  When dmus were introduced in South Wales in 1958 they took over steam diagrams.  Many sported the target boards carried by steam locos, or, in at least one ingenious case, the alphanumerical duty code chalked on one of the front buffers.   Rediagramming in June 1958 made a nonsense of this practice.  By and large the South Wales dmus displayed B and a white blank.   After the introduction of four character headcodes in 1960 some sets operating in the West Country had the blinds swapped over so that they could display 2C, the C standing for Plymouth Division. 

 

Chris 

[The Stationmaster]

Assuming the photo in the OP is correctly dated that is a Class 2 train.   But I haven't got a clue what the significance of the 'A' might be by that date (possibly none at all as I see there is a paper label on the central windscreen which logically would be read in conjunction with the train being a Class 2 service.

 

Classification of trains by letter code ceased to exist on all Regions of BR (other than the WR) no later than June 1962 and possibly earlier as the WR had changed over to numerical classifications in 1960.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Assuming the photo in the OP is correctly dated that is a Class 2 train.   But I haven't got a clue what the significance of the 'A' might be by that date (possibly none at all as I see there is a paper label on the central windscreen which logically would be read in conjunction with the train being a Class 2 service.

 

Classification of trains by letter code ceased to exist on all Regions of BR (other than the WR) no later than June 1962 and possibly earlier as the WR had changed over to numerical classifications in 1960.

Hi Mike

 

My research, not only the Ian Allan headcode book but my collection of LMR and NER WTTs state that those two regions continued to use the old letter classification for the type of train and a number for the route. If you enlarge the photo the paper headcode is 1X36 or 1X38. Therefore the use of A is correct. I cannot find if 2 was the correct route code for the Low Gill to Ingleton line for either of the two regions.

 

I found this document a fascinating read. http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRB_4_Position_Train_indicators2.pdf

 

From what Chris as posted and the information I have the WR and ER both seemed to use the first two figures of what would have been the 4 figure headcode.

 

 

[keefer]

ScR headcodes for 1967, courtesy railcar.co.uk : https://railcar.co.uk/topic/destination-blinds/scottish-region-two-digit

 

They continued into the '70s, I think there was a thread here previously where I posted an entry from a 1974 WTT - I'll have to find it first though!

[Steamysandy]

As a mention of an aside,the frequency of departures from North Berwick should be noted.This was when the old full size station with two platforms was in use and wouldnt be possible today

[Covkid]

Certainly around  the West Midlands "B" was the dominant letter followed by a number. B2 B5 and B7 being common. Not sure but I have a feeling the the 2  digit  code were  printed in the WTTs.

 

One  interesting photo I have seen is of Derby (class 108)  fitted with the roof mounted Headcode box showing B7 in the two inner positions with blank either side.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Mike

 

My research, not only the Ian Allan headcode book but my collection of LMR and NER WTTs state that those two regions continued to use the old letter classification for the type of train and a number for the route. If you enlarge the photo the paper headcode is 1X36 or 1X38. Therefore the use of A is correct. I cannot find if 2 was the correct route code for the Low Gill to Ingleton line for either of the two regions.

 

I found this document a fascinating read. http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRB_4_Position_Train_indicators2.pdf

 

From what Chris as posted and the information I have the WR and ER both seemed to use the first two figures of what would have been the 4 figure headcode.

 

 

All Regions definitely ceased to use it in June 1962 when the use of the latter based classification was discontinued throughout BR Clive.  From that date all operating documents no longer made any reference to aplphabetical classification but used the numerical classification.   And indeed the classification on the printed paper headcode confirms that.

 

It ould therefore seem that the code A2 had some sort of route identifucation meaning or it had been left because no one could be bothered to alter it 

[Clive Mortimore]

52 minutes ago, Covkid said:

Certainly around  the West Midlands "B" was the dominant letter followed by a number. B2 B5 and B7 being common. Not sure but I have a feeling the the 2  digit  code were  printed in the WTTs.

 

One  interesting photo I have seen is of Derby (class 108)  fitted with the roof mounted Headcode box showing B7 in the two inner positions with blank either side.

 

 

 

 

 

That did seem to quite a regular practice with 108s, and 113s. Also happened frequently in Scotland with 107s.

 

110s and 111s seemed to display the full four figured headcode could that have been because they were NER based?  LMR Derby 4 car suburban units also displayed the full headcode.

[Ray H]

In my early working days - circa 1964-7 - I was a reasonably regular user of the GE service out of Liverpool Street where some but not all of the EMUs only had two character headcode panels.

 

I can't recall the codes used but I know that the different destinations and I think stopping patterns had different alpha-numeric characters.

 

I think the LT&SR had a similar arrangement but I could swear to that.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

All Regions definitely ceased to use it in June 1962 when the use of the latter based classification was discontinued throughout BR Clive.  From that date all operating documents no longer made any reference to aplphabetical classification but used the numerical classification.   And indeed the classification on the printed paper headcode confirms that.

 

It ould therefore seem that the code A2 had some sort of route identifucation meaning or it had been left because no one could be bothered to alter it 

Hi Mike

 

On trains displaying the full four figure headcode the old letter classification was discontinued as noted in the LMR document I posted the link to. But as I have stated above the LMR and NER continued to use the letter classification with a single digit for the route when it came to DMUs fitted with two figure headcode boxes. Otherwise Covkids class 108 displaying B7 was a class 7 train heading for the LNWR London division.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Pannier Tank]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

All Regions definitely ceased to use it in June 1962 when the use of the latter based classification was discontinued throughout BR Clive.  From that date all operating documents no longer made any reference to alphabetical classification but used the numerical classification.   And indeed the classification on the printed paper headcode confirms that.

 

It could therefore seem that the code A2 had some sort of route identification meaning or it had been left because no one could be bothered to alter it 

 

Bletchley allocated DMU's which carried 2 Two digit Codes B1, B2, B3 to denote  different Routes. The B3 Code denoted a Bletchley to Bedford Service and lasted into the BR Blue Era. I'll see if I can find the B1 & B2 Codes, probably the Bletchley to Oxford and Bletchley to Buckingham Services.

[Steamport Southport]

20 hours ago, rab said:

Out of interest I googled the Ian Allen books

but they don't seem to be available.

I did find this though:

http://uksteam.info/gwr/hcodes.html.

 

Not sure how relevant it is to the original question.

 

 

 

This is one. Note the spelling of Allan.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railways-Headcodes-Ian-Allan/dp/0711026963

 

They reprinted some of them a few years back with the ABCs.

 

 

 

Jason

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

Bletchley allocated DMU's which carried 2 Two digit Codes B1, B2, B3 to denote  different Routes. The B3 Code denoted a Bletchley to Bedford Service and lasted into the BR Blue Era. I'll see if I can find the B1 & B2 Codes, probably the Bletchley to Oxford and Bletchley to Buckingham Services.

Hi Pannier Tank

 

You are on the right track. B3 was Bletchley to Bedford or Cambridge.

 

B1 on the Western Lines of the LMR was a class 2 passenger train on one of the following routes.

Bletchley and Banbury

Birmingham and Stafford or intermediate stations via Dudley Port and Wolverhampton

Rugby and Stafford via Birmingham and Dudley Port

Birmingham and Coventry, Rugby or Northampton.

 

B2 routes were

Bletchley and Wolverton or Oxford

Dudley and Walsall

Birmingham and Lichfield or Burton via Four Oaks

Nuneaton and Coventry or Leamington

Rugby and Leicester

Northampton and Bedford.

 

The list goes up to B0 (not very nice thing to say about the passengers from Wolverhampton) no more had Bletchley as their starting point.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Pannier Tank]

8 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

B1 on the Western Lines of the LMR was a class 2 passenger train on one of the following routes.

Bletchley and Banbury

 

B2 routes were

Bletchley and Wolverton or Oxford

 

 

Clive, thank you for the information; I thought that was the case but couldn't be sure.

 

When I used to be a young Spotter at Bletchley Station in the early 60s I used to be able rattle off all the stations on the Oxford to Cambridge Branch Lines and the Rugby to London Euston Main Lines much to the amusement of the Station Master and his staff.  Happy days, just wished I had a Camera to have recalled it all.

[rab]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

This is one. Note the spelling of Allan.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railways-Headcodes-Ian-Allan/dp/0711026963

 

They reprinted some of them a few years back with the ABCs.

 

 

 

Jason

 

I noticed that one, and the note,

 "Currently unavailable, not known when available again" .

 

(Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

 You can tell I didn't buy many of the books).

[Market65]

I’ve been looking at NER WTT’s for 1964/65 and 1979/80 and taken shots of the relevant pages. I know it’s been stated that letters were not used from 1962, but the 64/65 WTT seems to contradict that. Please see the following photo’s:

 

 

 

It states that the letters represent the train classification. Then the number is the route indication number. Was the NER not aware of the 1962 change?

Anyway, by 1979/80 this was the position:

 

 

I hope all this of some help and interest, and perhaps, whilst it existed, the NER of BR was going about things in its own way.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, rab said:

 

I noticed that one, and the note,

 "Currently unavailable, not known when available again" .

 

(Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

 You can tell I didn't buy many of the books).

 

They're quite common at heritage railways though. I think I paid about 50p for one. 

 

No idea of the date, but it's got two Electric Blue with SYP AC electrics on the cover (Class 83 and 86?) and the price is now 4/6. Guessing about 1968 as it says "Do you miss steam locomotives?" in one of the adverts.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited June 30, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[Clive Mortimore]

8 minutes ago, Market65 said:

I’ve been looking at NER WTT’s for 1964/65 and 1979/80 and taken shots of the relevant pages. I know it’s been stated that letters were not used from 1962, but the 64/65 WTT seems to contradict that. Please see the following photo’s:

 

 

 

It states that the letters represent the train classification. Then the number is the route indication number. Was the NER not aware of the 1962 change?

Anyway, by 1979/80 this was the position:

 

 

I hope all this of some help and interest, and perhaps, whilst it existed, the NER of BR was going about things in its own way.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

Thanks Rob

 

In front of me I have a 1970/71 WTT from the LMR which states " In the case of multiple unit trains fitted with two-position indicator boxes, the fromer classification letters (A, B and C) will continue to be displayed together with the route indication numbers. " So as I have stated above the NER was not alone , it and the LMR done the same thing.

 

What I would like to know what happened after the ER and NER became the big ER in 1968? Well after May 1969 when the new headcodes were introduced for the new region. I know the old ER areas kept their existing headcodes.

 

The 1979/80 headcodes were not displayed by the trains as that had been abolished in 1976, although of interest does it apply to our models. There were exceptions the Bedford to St Pancras DMUs kept using them and on the GER suburban lines. And of course the SR but then the SR never complied to the national headcode policy/guidance.

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Mike

 

On trains displaying the full four figure headcode the old letter classification was discontinued as noted in the LMR document I posted the link to. But as I have stated above the LMR and NER continued to use the letter classification with a single digit for the route when it came to DMUs fitted with two figure headcode boxes. Otherwise Covkids class 108 displaying B7 was a class 7 train heading for the LNWR London division.

But the letter classification was totally meaningless Clive - that is the point I am trying to make.  They could put in whatever code they liked and call it what they liked but after June 1962 it no longer indicated the classification of the train -  hence the paper label in the windscreen which says it was a Class 1 train (that wouldn't have needed all four digits if the A had indicated the classification of the train).    All that WTT note you have quoted says is that the former classification letters will continue to be displayed - note the word 'former' - i.e., such a classification no longer existed and was therefore meaningless in operational terms.

 

By 1963 there was no such things as Class A trains, the code was deceased, dead, and no longer meant anything at all.  It didn't exist in the Block Regulations so it was impossible to signal a Class A train - you could signal a Class 1 train and all Instructions applied to Class 1 trains but nothing existed to regulate the operation of a Class A train any more. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by The Stationmaster