2 character DMU headcodes?

[Grovenor]

The 1964/5 document quoted above did specifically say that A, B, C should be displayed to indicate that the train was class 1, 2 or 3 respectively and obviously it would be signalled as such. So if the train was designated as 1X38 then displaying A would be following the instructions. So the letter was NOT meaningless, it was specified that A meant class 1 in this case.

[The Stationmaster]

11 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

The 1964/5 document quoted above did specifically say that A, B, C should be displayed to indicate that the train was class 1, 2 or 3 respectively and obviously it would be signalled as such. So if the train was designated as 1X38 then displaying A would be following the instructions. So the letter was NOT meaningless, it was specified that A meant class 1 in this case.

Actually Clive quoted it as a WWT note.  Not the same thing at all as an Instruction regarding Train Classification.

[Clive Mortimore]

6 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

The 1964/5 document quoted above did specifically say that A, B, C should be displayed to indicate that the train was class 1, 2 or 3 respectively and obviously it would be signalled as such. So if the train was designated as 1X38 then displaying A would be following the instructions. So the letter was NOT meaningless, it was specified that A meant class 1 in this case.

Thank you Keith.

 

The system for two figure headcodes as displayed by the LMR and NER possibly pre-dated the change to four figure headcodes but they must have thought it easier to stick with what they had not change things. 

[rab]

14 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Thanks Rob

 

In front of me I have a 1970/71 WTT from the LMR which states " In the case of multiple unit trains fitted with two-position indicator boxes, the fromer classification letters (A, B and C) will continue to be displayed together with the route indication numbers. " So as I have stated above the NER was not alone , it and the LMR done the same thing.

 

What I would like to know what happened after the ER and NER became the big ER in 1968? Well after May 1969 when the new headcodes were introduced for the new region. I know the old ER areas kept their existing headcodes.

 

The 1979/80 headcodes were not displayed by the trains as that had been abolished in 1976, although of interest does it apply to our models. There were exceptions the Bedford to St Pancras DMUs kept using them and on the GER suburban lines. And of course the SR but then the SR never complied to the national headcode policy/guidance.

 

Does that mean the SR used disc headcodes on their DMUs?  

Edited July 1, 2019 by rab
Clarification

[The Johnster]

Yes.  The Southern had diesel electric dmus to the same profile as their EPB and SUB emus, and used their disc codes in the same way.  They also used the rear red destination blinds as tail lamps, and did not carry oil tail lamps (as other region's dmus did until the 80s, the commonly seen RTR dmu in green or plain blue livery with both tail lamps lit is wrong).  This could lead to problems when the trains went off-region with signalmen who had not read their General Appendix stopping the trains in case they were divided.

[Wickham Green]

Actually, the Southern used alpha-numeric two digit codes ( supplemented with a selection of bars and dots ) for all electric and diesel electric headcodes. Initially these were formed of a steel stencil for each digit but roller blinds were introduced with the Hastings units : these enabled two identical digits to be displayed ( only one set of stencils had been carried ) so most diesel routes were divisible by eleven ! ..... as The Johnster says a double red blind was used as a 'tail lamp' on roller blind fitted units but an oil - or today battery - lamp was/is carried off region .... as, no doubt, anyone will see on Saturday when the Hastings unit ventures down to the Dean Forest !

[Steamport Southport]

The Southern used them well into the 1980s whereas everyone else had long since stopped using them. If you were a regular then you could tell what train to get as the commuters used them like destination boards.

 

 

http://www.semgonline.com/headcodes/eheadcodes.html

 

 

Jason

[nharding99]

Just by way of further example, here are some 2 character DMU headcodes for the Cambrian Coast and North Wales (mid 1970s)... https://www.2d53.co.uk/Headcode/headcodeB.htm 

[TheSignalEngineer]

12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The Southern used them well into the 1980s whereas everyone else had long since stopped using them. If you were a regular then you could tell what train to get as the commuters used them like destination boards.

 

I can remember going to catch a train at a Southern Region station where the codes were shown with the timetable. Made it easy to get the right one.

[Firecracker]

On 30/06/2019 at 13:58, Clive Mortimore said:

My research, not only the Ian Allan headcode book but my collection of LMR and NER WTTs state that those two regions continued to use the old letter classification for the type of train and a number for the route. If you enlarge the photo the paper headcode is 1X36 or 1X38. Therefore the use of A is correct. I cannot find if 2 was the correct route code for the Low Gill to Ingleton line for either of the two regions.

(Snipped)

 

Having gone back to the original photo and examined it under a glass, it’s 1X36.  

 

Owain

[Firecracker]

Wow.  Thanks one and all, this has been truly educational.  What started as an idle ‘what’s that?’ has turned into a lot of learning.  Although I am amused that going off Nharding99’s link,it appears Bachman got it wrong on their effort.  Thanks again one and all.

 

Owain

[96701]

These 2 character codes didn't half last a long time. I took this snap at Kingmoor when I was training there in 1974.

 

[keefer]

Found the thread i was thinking of, 

ScR Summer 1964 WTT: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61849-kirkcaldy-area/&do=findComment&comment=954004

 

ScR 1972 Section C and 1975 Section GC: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61849-kirkcaldy-area/&do=findComment&comment=954104

Edited July 2, 2019 by keefer

[D9001]

As a regular traveller on the Saltburn to Middlesbrough line I remember the met cam dmus displaying B1 well into the 1970s, probably up to refurbishment. I think Middlesbrough to Whitby trains were B3

[45125]

Some of the two character head code blinds had a D on them along with red, black and white blanks.

 

Al Taylor

[Trog]

Not DMU's but I think the 501 stock on the LNWR DC electrified lines were still using a letter and number code to show their destination into the 1980's.