Any Sign of New Hornby Gresley A1/A3s without ski-jump?

[sirwilliamfrs]

I understand all the points made about the "ski-jump" footplates, which are, dependent on viewing angle, quite noticeable. But to me the most jarring feature of any A3 (and A4) model representing any time after about 1954 is the double set of front guard irons which plainly just look wrong. I am a collector who only displays models and have removed the front set of irons and the splash-plates on my A3s, re-working the front of the bogie to suit. Nit-picking maybe but it appeals to me. In the past I have also removed the large overhanging "blob" which many Hornby locos, particularly the previous model "Duchesses" have at the front of the bogie, producing a much better appearance.

SWFRS

Edited July 22, 2019 by sirwilliamfrs

[robmcg]

Thanks for all those replies, I had thought for a while there I was in an echo chamber.  I hadn't realised that brass covered the entire splasher tops, and paint and/or brass strip might be adapted. 

 

I also understand the variation in things which stand out or annoy... one of my pet hates is incorrect offset on valve gear eccentrics. Hornby usually get one side right.  For some it's the 00 gauge, or the fat wheel profile, thus only P4 will do, but for me it's the overall look of a model which makes it a winner or loser.

 

A few years ago I had a burst of Flying Scotsman mania and wanted a super-detail early 30s 4472, so I adapted a Railroad right hand drive Scotsman to a full-fat later chassis, it worked fairly well but from memory the RR body sat a fraction high. As is my habit I fixed this with photo-editing.

 

With regard to the brass beading, here is a Rails-weathered RR Scotsman from a few years ago, and below that my edited 'creation' from a RR body and late version chassis.

 

 

 

 

 

I know it's not proper modelling but I enjoy it.

 

I think the Gresley A1s came into 'full flower' with the first non-stops from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and did this pic yesterday, based on Hornby's Flying Fox but name and number change etc

 

[robmcg]

Bit the bullet today and bought a R3736 1920s 4472...  pictures may follow. Copper trimmed splashers and all...  but it will probably take 2 weeks to get it to NZ.  

 

I'm wondering how many and what kind of  Gresley corridor carriages were around in 1923-4?

Edited July 22, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Didn't take long....

 

 

adapted from 1470 'Great Northern'... and PSP6 editing.

[micklner]

Without ever seeing a photo of Brass splashers on FS , I personally would only do the beading in Brass, unless such evidence is shown . Much easier to paint the splasher tops afterwards than trying to remove if disproven !!.

 

I haven't checked but if FS still had the GN cab at Wembley?  then buy a secondhand GN version and put a crest from Fox transfers on the cab for half or less of the asking price!!.

Edited July 23, 2019 by micklner

[Tiddles47]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

Without ever seeing a photo of Brass splashers on FS , I personally would only do the beading in Brass, unless such evidence is shown . Much easier to paint the splasher tops afterwards than trying to remove if disproven !!.

 

I haven't checked but if FS still had the GN cab at Wembley?  then buy a secondhand GN version and put a crest from Fox transfers on the cab for half or less of the asking price!!.

4472 had a GN cab until 1928 when she was rebuilt to LNER gauge and gained her 1st corridor tender. The brass trim to the splashers was retained well into wartime when they were painted over or replaced. 

 

The pic is from Getty images of her at KX Top Shed in 1934 and shows the brass splashers.  The others are  of her in Exhibition condition. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Tiddles47

[micklner]

Thanks for the lovely photo . As said buy a GN version and do some modelling a very simple conversion and it already has chrome handrail too !! (no I am trying to  not selling a Hornby GN and there at least one on eBay at mo for about £50 last time I looked).

[Tiddles47]

Has anyone got the latest model then? I'd love 1 but can't afford it. 

[robmcg]

2 hours ago, Tiddles47 said:

Has anyone got the latest model then? I'd love 1 but can't afford it. 

 

Yes,  arrived here in NZ after 6 days from purchase, photos coming, time permitting. Certainly in a few days. cheers 

[robmcg]

Just now I quickly unwrapped my well-packed well-cushioned 4472 parcel from respected high volume UK retailer,

 

Photo below.

 

Ashpan lever was in sleeve, loose, would have not been seen except I tend to look for these things!

 

Front brake hose was loose, jammed under housing clip moulding above the tender,

 

Most annoying of all, front buffer beam broken and bent,  front buffer has received a clout from the side.  Ought really to be rejected and refunded.

 

Can only be slipshod packing at factory or during assembly. It certainly wasn't me!

 

Disappointed. Again, but will repair, the sending back from NZ is just too tiresome...  after receiving three Coronation and none had top handrails...  All else on 4472 looks ok  and it ran ok a short distance.

 

 

 

edit;   no ski jump. 

 

note; photo is unedited, except for cropping. Canon EOS-M at approx 40mm focal length on 28-55mm kit lens, F29, 15 secs,  two ordinary tungsten ceiling 100w room lights and one hand-held 60w reading lamp. DIN100. For those who care , auto colour balance.

 

cheers

 

p.p.s. reason for repair and not refund?   It's not the retailer's fault, it's the manufacturer's...  and apart from cost, time, inconvenience, customs etc., a replacement will likely have similar faults. Success in receiving undamaged engines from Hornby lately has been about 50%.   I'm tending to buy s/h SK-era models instead.  I should note that all three Nelsons appear undamaged, yet to test (other issues take my time)  but all were very hard to open, very tight sleeve.

Edited July 30, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Actually you couldn't do this kind of damage unless you were talented !  I haven't got the opportunity to repair it right now but am hoping it will become all but invisible...

 

 

p.s.   Isn't the flatness of the running plate in the previous pic thoroughly brilliant!  Who would have thought it possible?

 

Even SK-era A3s and A1s had wavy running plates... well, slightly, if you were fussy.. 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by robmcg

[Bon Accord]

Rob,

Good to see the ski jump gone - I can now start acquiring A3's again after something of a hiatus.

Hornby do seem to have some QC issues of late. Two J36 I ordered (one NB version the other BR) from Hattons had to be returned due to damage which had obviously occurred at the packing stage in China. Hattons response was excellent in both cases with replacement examples sent out ASAP and no fuss whatsoever, however it did make me wonder just how many duds they - and the other retailers large and small - have been saddled with.

I'm reluctant to complain too much as Hornby's ongoing resurgence is to be admired and is something the hobby needs, lest we have overall blue box dominance.

[robmcg]

4 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

Rob,

Good to see the ski jump gone - I can now start acquiring A3's again after something of a hiatus.

Hornby do seem to have some QC issues of late. Two J36 I ordered (one NB version the other BR) from Hattons had to be returned due to damage which had obviously occurred at the packing stage in China. Hattons response was excellent in both cases with replacement examples sent out ASAP and no fuss whatsoever, however it did make me wonder just how many duds they - and the other retailers large and small - have been saddled with.

I'm reluctant to complain too much as Hornby's ongoing resurgence is to be admired and is something the hobby needs, lest we have overall blue box dominance.

 

I suspect a lot of buyers don't open and run their models, they just collect them, and many others repair faults.

 

That said there must be a huge number of returns, and Hornby MUST know about the likely proportion not fit for purpose and either scrapped or possibly repaired and re-sold?  

[Rshakes3]

Hi Rob - that really is an 'interesting' bit of damage to the buffer beam! But also I succumbed and purchased 6221 earlier in the week so I`ll let you know if it  turns up with all the hand rails  

[robmcg]

3 hours ago, Rshakes3 said:

Hi Rob - that really is an 'interesting' bit of damage to the buffer beam! But also I succumbed and purchased 6221 earlier in the week so I`ll let you know if it  turns up with all the hand rails  

 

Thanks, it recovered well with no glue needed, except for the ashpan lever...  I have some suitable glue coming, quick-set superglue.

 

Took a photo of the other side, unedited, showing the buffer pushed back into place and front brakehose pushed back in. 

 

Hornby are now forgiven. I wonder how they fixed the mismatched parts and assembly issues of the front end and running plate?

 

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by robmcg

[atom3624]

That was highly unusual with the buffer beam.

I believe it must be an agitated or new employee not aware of how to handle these expensive - to use - models - and simply grabbed it by the buffer!

 

Looks much better now.

 

Al.

[sirwilliamfrs]

I 'm not sure if it has been mentioned before, but it is good to see the correct front footsteps and square-ended buffer beam fitted for 4472's 1924 condition.

[MikeParkin65]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Thanks, it recovered well with no glue needed, except for the ashpan lever...  I have some suitable glue coming, quick-set superglue.

 

Took a photo of the other side, unedited, showing the buffer pushed back into place and front brakehose pushed back in. 

 

Hornby are now forgiven. I wonder how they fixed the mismatched parts and assembly issues of the front end and running plate?

 

 

Neat (as in invisible!) repair

[G-BOAF]

Well done on the repair, and lucky the break is all but hidden by the buffer shank.

 

The model really does look smart, probably the best A1/A3 Hornby have made since the closure of Sanda Kan. Well done Hornby, shame its taken so long, but hopefully a sign that new management is getting to grips with remaining production problems.

 

My only criticism is that, having correctly modelled the square corner buffer beam, they have not painted and lined the 'infill' in the side that forms the running plate 'edging' taht joins onto the buffer beam. They have left it as a red lump! Looking at a picture of Hornby's original 4470, this was done very well. You can hardly see the join between running plate and buffer beam side (you can just through a slight break in the lining, so I know the tooling arrangement has stayed the same).

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/203875/hornby_r2405_sd01_class_a1_4_6_2_1470_great_northern_in_lner_green_pre_owned_one_cabin_door_brok/stockdetail.aspx

Edited July 31, 2019 by G-BOAF

[robmcg]

Another thing different between the 1470 earlier Hornby model is that 1470 had lining on the cab front, current 4472 lacks this minor? touch. 4475 Flying Fox with the LNER cab also has lining.

 

Shades of Terrier details! <g>

 

I agree that the bent buffer beam is a fairly unusual assembly fault but not unheard-of. I think the lack of some final paint subtleties and brass beading detract slightly.  The damage on arrival here is more common than it used to be, either air-freight to NZ has become rougher or assembly is a bit more slipshod.

 

Dare I mention the Heljan 47XX   ?     Many, in fact I suggest most of the BR black version for some reason suffered broken front buffers and more. That said, it was probably a packaging and weight issue,  different from 4472 which was probably a human error.

Edited July 31, 2019 by robmcg

[micklner]

This looks like a further moulding version of the Boiler/Smokebox .  I have just noticed there are no small/wiggly pipes present on the offside of the smokebox (which is correct) , I have never seen this before on any of the detailed Hornby A1/A3's, are there still sliding vents on the Cab Roof ?

 

The ski jump footplate on Book Law was different from the earlier mouldings, perhaps they have reverted to the old Footplate tooling on this version.

 

The Bufferbeam needs painting Black along the top edge as well, as the ends, again it has been wrong since the Book Law version.

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

This looks like a further moulding version of the Boiler/Smokebox .  I have just noticed there are no small/wiggly pipes present on the offside of the smokebox (which is correct) , I have never seen this before on any of the detailed Hornby A1/A3's, are there still sliding vents on the Cab Roof ?

 

The ski jump footplate on Book Law was different from the earlier mouldings, perhaps they have reverted to the old Footplate tooling on this version.

 

The Bufferbeam needs painting Black along the top edge as well, as the ends, again it has been wrong since the Book Law version.

 

The model isn't in front of me right now buy as I recall from yesterday the roof has a moulded vent cover, not a separate sliding one.

 

 

 

Edit here s the pic of the slightly damaged model I received with the damage repaired by editing... I took photos of the repaired one but prefer the lighting on the original, this represents what a buyer might reasonably expect, regardless.

Edited July 31, 2019 by robmcg

[micklner]

Strange mix of standards , over wide lining on the cab sides and windows and missing on  front , from the photo it has a green surround ? to the cab window which should be Brown. The handrails should all be unpainted.

 

 Other than the straight footplate ,everything else sadly is poorer detail/quality its almost a Railroad standard issue, compared to the original GN and the other early issue models. 

 

The asking  price around £200 is simply ridiculous to finish !!

[Tiddles47]

Managed to pick last 1 up from Arcadia today (traded a few unwanted in). So will "bull" it up to exhibition condition. As the saying goes "watch this space"

[Dominion]

16 hours ago, micklner said:

This looks like a further moulding version of the Boiler/Smokebox .  I have just noticed there are no small/wiggly pipes present on the offside of the smokebox (which is correct) , I have never seen this before on any of the detailed Hornby A1/A3's, are there still sliding vents on the Cab Roof ?

 

The ski jump footplate on Book Law was different from the earlier mouldings, perhaps they have reverted to the old Footplate tooling on this version.

 

The Bufferbeam needs painting Black along the top edge as well, as the ends, again it has been wrong since the Book Law version.

 

No small wiggly pipes on any of my other RHD A1s, Woolwinder, Flying Fox, Gladiateur, Great Northern or Royal Lancer. 

The roof vents do slide on this GN version of Flying Scotsman.

Also the join at the top seem of the boiler halves between the second boiler band and the dome is much better on this model than my other recent Hornby A1s/A3s.

There are only 3 lamp irons on the buffer beam, the extra right hand one fitted to the Great Northern model is not present. I do not know when that was removed on the prototype relative to the square corner buffer beam and the 4472 number.