Jump to content

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

28XX

Imaginary Locomotives

Recommended Posts

She almost looks like she could run 2'.   Mock up a TT Prairie with bogies and a Driver for scale?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
On 29/10/2019 at 17:06, RedGemAlchemist said:

 

Very nice. Makes me think of my own Pacific design. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-33750-0-67443100-1520366761.pnghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_07_2018/post-33750-0-15807100-1532090804.jpg

My original number 10, now unnumbered and retired as it's hideously surplus to requirements and really bad at turning. Replaced amusingly by a freelance Pacific tank. 

Nice pacific model, though the cab is kinda sagging down at the back.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Nice pacific model, though the cab is kinda sagging down at the back.

It's an older model and I was ill when I made it. It'll probably have some modifications to fix that. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/08/2019 at 11:39, Satan's Goldfish said:

That's a very creative HST! Even BR would go for a prototype like this! Good luck making it into a model!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

It's an older model and I was ill when I made it. It'll probably have some modifications to fix that. 

I'm sure you will. Plus, I am working on a freelance 0-6-0 tank engine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all,

 

I had another idea I thought belonged on this thread, although strictly speaking not an imaginary locomotive, but another repurposing of existing stock for an imaginary railway of the past:

 

I'm not necessarily a fan of the neo-Awdry stuff that appears here now and again, and I appreciate is very popular with many, because the overall backstory to the railways on Sodor is a bit too … neat?

 

Thing is, in my head, if you had a large semi-autonomous island off the Northwest coast of the UK and a sufficient industrial economy for heavy mainline rail, in the immediate pre- and post-war period it would have had a) a large military or naval base and b) a complicated local politics and quite possibly a local separatist terrorist movement. And even then it probably wouldn't have been running, eg, Pacifics.

(Possibly after WWII it would have had a USA military presence and Cold War spying, but that's another issue.)

But then I discovered the history of the Palestine Railways, being an interwar British-run railway in a 'colonial' area with a strong military legacy being entirely equipped with either WW1 military surplus locomotives, or locomotives built or rebuilt by British manufacturers...

Transplant its locomotive stock to a northern-hemisphere location, and you have a perfect representation of what a small, cash-strapped, embattled but autonomous system in the 1930s actually looked like, particularly if you monkey with Awdry slightly.

A bit like an Irish railway of the same era, but different.

To make some parallels with Railway Series locomotives...

'Edward' becomes an ex-ROD Baldwin 4-4-0

'James' becomes an ex-LNWR Webb 17" 0-6-0 or ex-LSWR 395 0-6-0

'Percy' and 'Duck' become Manning Wardle 0-6-0STs

'Henry' becomes the ex-Baldwin 4-6-0s rebuilt twice (into 4-6-2Ts and 4-6-4Ts)

'Gordon' becomes the larger, more powerful and faster North british 4-6-0s which were technically mixed-traffic engines but were their nearest thing to express engines.

and 'Thomas' becomes the Nasmyth WIlson 0-6-0Ts (which were a strikingly odd but winning combination of a Jinty, an LMS 2MT tank, Scottish-style curved tank tops, and an SR USA tank)

I can't find a home in the Irish Sea or North Atlantic for the Kitson 2-8-4Ts, though...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/08/2019 at 11:39, Satan's Goldfish said:

You know, this is an impressive HST. This is something BR would've had back in the day when experimenting with multiple unit trains. Good luck making this into an actual physical model!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the form shown it wouldn't have been a particularly HS, T.  The DTBS is mk2 based and has B4 100mph bogies, but the Mk1 CKs have B1s, and are speed limited to 90mph.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking more about multiple unit trains, what about a general service 90mph air conditioned DMU based on the Blue Pullman? Same basic frame and engines, but with Mk 1 interiors and a more traditional first generation DMU cab.

 

Cheers

David

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

Thinking more about multiple unit trains, what about a general service 90mph air conditioned DMU based on the Blue Pullman? Same basic frame and engines, but with Mk 1 interiors and a more traditional first generation DMU cab.

 

Cheers

David

You've designed a Thumper.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

You've designed a Thumper.

 

No, he's designed what a Thumper should have been.

 

Much better to build a standard unit and modify the track layout (as was later done with Hastings electrification)

  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

Thinking more about multiple unit trains, what about a general service 90mph air conditioned DMU based on the Blue Pullman? Same basic frame and engines, but with Mk 1 interiors and a more traditional first generation DMU cab.

Not quite, as I kept the Blue Pullman cab and forsook air-conditioning (still a decade off from general service application irca 1960), but I did post this earlier.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

In the form shown it wouldn't have been a particularly HS, T.  The DTBS is mk2 based and has B4 100mph bogies, but the Mk1 CKs have B1s, and are speed limited to 90mph.

 

What speeds did Deltic + mk1s usually run at on the ECML?

 

(More of a fan of the more modern livery versions I did prior to the maroon incarnation... maybe NSE next just to upset everyone...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Deltics, IIRC, were restricted to a top speed of 100mph (in theory, I mean; practice was, er, different), as were the 37s and 50s that used the same bogies and traction motors.  The B4 bogies were good for 100mph, as were Commonwealth bogies, and mk1 stock that had been refurbished with them were stencilled on the ends as suitable for that speed.  Mk1s with the older B1 bogie were speed restricted to 90mph (again, practice might be different).  

 

The driving trailer with the Deltic cab is unlikely, tbh, as it does not make the best use of driver visibility that a dmu style cab provides, and at this period I would expect something like a Clacton electric or Swindon 4-car Inter City type of front, or possibly Transpennine wrap around window.  And there seems to me to be wasted space in the nose.

 

The load is not a good use of the Deltic's power, and the expense of running these prima donna locos demanded cost efficient use.  Acceleration could be fierce, providing the Deltic could keep it's feet and there was no wheelslip, and of course for any distance catering vehicles need to be included; I reckon a 10 coach set is more likely and if any of it is to the mk2 profile the whole train would have been, perhaps in style something like the mk2 based demus produced for Northern Ireland.  This renders the maroon livery unlikely, lovely though it looks, and blue/grey more probable.  

 

Such a train could have dispensed with the need for the DP2 based 50s on the WCML, and ended up replacing Westerns on the WR, but the WCML required 110mph running.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The load is not a good use of the Deltic's power, and the expense of running these prima donna locos demanded cost efficient use.  Acceleration could be fierce, providing the Deltic could keep it's feet and there was no wheelslip, and of course for any distance catering vehicles need to be included; I reckon a 10 coach set is more likely and if any of it is to the mk2 profile the whole train would have been, perhaps in style something like the mk2 based demus produced for Northern Ireland.  This renders the maroon livery unlikely, lovely though it looks, and blue/grey more probable.  

I rather like a Deltic/Blue Pullman/HST hybrid with a powe car at either end. 100mph looks to be easy with 10 cars, probable with 11, and may be achievable with 12.

 

One 1,800 hp Deltic in each power car with a Voith transmission for lighter weight. Reckon on about 1,200hp at the rail. Because it's a multiple unit, and the diesel-electrics don't dominate yet, this makes sense - and I'm not a diesel-hydraulic fan. Probably need an auxiliary power takeoff for train supply to run air conditioning, but that's solvable. By my reckoning, each power car comes in at 65 tons 5 cwt.

 

I've never decided what the cabs should look like, though I like the idea of an 'Express Multiple Unit' livery of green and cream.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RLBH said:

 

I've never decided what the cabs should look like, though I like the idea of an 'Express Multiple Unit' livery of green and cream.

Now there's another 'imaginary' subject, liveries. I think that instead of Rail Blue they should have kept the maroon which would have gone well with Rail Grey. The blue/grey combination allways seemed 'cold' to my eye. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The Deltics, IIRC, were restricted to a top speed of 100mph (in theory, I mean; practice was, er, different),

Weren't the Deltics originally restricted to 100mph by the line speed?

IIRC they were officially allowed to 110mph after line speeds had been raised.

 

EDIT 55008 reached 125mph in Feb 1978 as part of a "special" run.

Edited by melmerby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AFAIK the first 110mph locos were the 87s, which could not legitimately achieve that speed in service until they had been given mk2 stock to haul; all mk2 coaches and mk1s fitted with B4 or Commonwealth bogies were speed restricted to 100mph.  100mph was the overall line speed top limit nationwide until the introduction of the HSTs on the ECML and WR, and even then the limit stayed at 90mph for everything except HSTs with two locomen in the cab and both headlights working for some time.  The WCML was upgraded to 110mph in association with the completion of the Weaver Jc-Motherwll electrification, and IIRC class 86 with 87 bogies were also permitted 110mph.

 

Line speed on the WR for non-HST traffic was still 90mph, and the 75mph limit inside the Severn Tunnel was relaxed to 90mph for HSTs only.  I timed a Sunday morning Cardiff-Paddington train of 8 mixed mk1 and 2 coaches hauled by a 50 (can't remember which one) which ran via Gloucester and on this particular day was diverted via Westerleigh due to work in Sapperton Tunnel so had time to make up, and, with a companion verifying the readings, recorded 114mph between Cholesly and Moulsford, and Goring, the fastest ever loco hauled train I ever experienced.  I was riding in the leading coach, a mk1 BCK with Commonwealth bogies, and the ride was excellent; it was a bit noisy, though!  This would have been about 1983.

  • Like 4
  • Informative/Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

114 mph behind a class 50 is really hot!  The driver would certainly have had nothing on the dial but Smiths!

  • Agree 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, jf2682 said:

114 mph behind a class 50 is really hot!  The driver would certainly have had nothing on the dial but Smiths!

I was on a late-running special behind the preserved Western a few years ago and we were certainly the wrong side of 90mph between Swindon and Didcot.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nic Goodrich did this photoshop of a Bagnall built for the London Underground - I think it suits it! 

(posted on the British What-If & Never-Were Locomotives FB group)

499330922_nicgoodrichphotoshop.jpg.7a3aac942c03d14f35569f41d7ff37d2.jpg

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I know the GWR was wedded to just 2 sets of valve gear for it's steam locos but what if they had tried a 3 cylinder mixed traffic loco?

 

Take a Hall or Grange, fit Castle cylinders outside operated by rockers from inside Walschaerts, as normal, and a third similar inside cylinder driven from a derived motion a là Holcroft.

A nice powerful mixed traffic loco capable of use on restricted width routes, where a Grange couldn't go.

 

Would it be practical?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LT did have a peckett saddle tank loco. That does seem to suit that loco though.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.