GMRC Series 2 - Episode 6 - Semi-final 1 - 'Myths, Monsters, Legends and Fables'

[LNER4479]

7 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Nice little ode to put down the presenters' puns too!

I'm SO glad that made the final cut - and he'd just given me the perfect lead in too ( not shown) by wondering if they were going to see Sir Cumference...

[LNER4479]

A few model railway technical titbits to explain a bit more about what you saw...

 

One aspect of our design was that we were able to make use of G scale figures. One thing I've been struck by in GMRC so far is that individual figure cameos can be a bit small in OO/4mm, even though the sophisticated production cameras can pick them up perfectly OK. There were a range of figures and animals available via the Bachmann shopping list but to supplement these, Tom found some cheap plastic Wild West cowboy n Indian figures on line. I'm so glad they included the 'how to' interview with him as he really was in his element with this aspect of our layout.

 

The 'stage hands' were two more of the Hornby 0-4-0 diesel mechanical shunters that served us so well on the Heat layout. The wagons for the horses were two more of the Lilliput HO bogie flat wagons (available via Gaugemaster) - diecast bodies, so nice n stable. The motive power for the rotating stage were two Hornby Railroad Class 73s (AGAIN as used in the Heat layout); with their bodies and cab details removed, the power bogie pivot point was the ideal bearing point for the wood structure. Two Hornby mineral wagons carrying wood block packers acted as outriders, meaning that the stage structure was supported at four 90degree points.

 

The most sophisticated part was the release mechanism to allow the white knight to ride off the rail wagon on to the road as the 'unloading' part of the challenge. As you saw, the heart of this was a Faller road vehicle (Gaugemaster again) - anyone familiar with these marvels of miniature engineering will know that you can stop them with a magnet adjacent to the in built reed switch which cuts the power to the motor. So the wagon was fitted with a swing out magnet arrangement that was held in place whilst in motion on the railway tracks and then engaged with a track pin strategically placed alongside the unloading siding which had the effect of releasing the road vehicle from the deck of the wagon at just the right moment. Very much a joint effort from myself and Andrew.

 

The Lady of the Lake was raised and lowered via Spud motor running on a short length of track. Very Heath Robinson but it worked.

 

Honourable mentions to Richie who had a Children's (Osborne) cardboard cut out castle to work with and Paul for the most of scenic components, including the castle interior as the finale.

 

As I mentioned earlier, we had very little time to work up the details of the design beforehand as we were fully engaged with our Heat 5 layout so we really did have to work out how to do a lot of this stuff on the day. The drawbridge for example was an extra feature from scratch - had not anticipated the need for that.

Edited October 13, 2019 by LNER4479

[LMS29]

4 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Not wishing to detract from the other teams extremely hard work, it’s hard to figure out what the actual judges were looking for. 

I agree, I was confused.  We had deliberately chosen limited scenery, we just wanted to set the scene with the surroundings as we wanted people to focus on the stage and the action. I would have expected a question on why we had gone from a complex scenic layout in Heat 5 to such a simple one in the Semi-final.  I guess I forgot our basic premise that we were just making a TV programme.  Still it was great fun.

[Neil]

7 hours ago, phil gollin said:

......

 

What then amused/irritated me is that AFTER criticising the teams for lacking "imagination" and "creativity", when the teams explained their layouts the judges gave all sorts of grimaces and explained how these were meant to be model railway layouts.   Thankfully the Grantham layout was just so astounding that their whinges were lost in the overall praise, despite the lack of traditional "trains". ....

 

.

 

5 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Not wishing to detract from the other teams extremely hard work, it’s hard to figure out what the actual judges were looking for.  ....

 

For me this episode posed an interesting question, when does a model railway cease to become a model railway? I think that Steve Flint made the point at an early stage of the program that there's an expectation that the trains would be seen rather than be hidden. Team Grantham's 'Knights of the Turntable' would have caused me problems in reconciling the build quality and the way it tackled the brief with it's lack of model railwayness if I'd have been judging.

[stivesnick]

Congratulations to Team Grantham for their win last night.

 

I can understand why some people may not think it a proper railway, but the ideas used, especially the unloading rail knight,  is something that could be adopted on other layouts, so good railway modelling as far as I am concerned.

 

My concern over some of these layouts, is how they might be seen at exhibitions over the coming year. What is being produced is based around a 2-3 minute presentation to the judges. But how does this translate into an appearance for perhaps 6-7 hours at a show as many of the actions are not easily repeatable (the earthquake scenes come to mind)?

 

Will we end up with set demonstration times, every 30 minutes or even 15 minutes, when crowds would appear to see the layout operating? In between the operators are busy setting up the next "show" rather than talking to people. 

 

Not sure how this would work, but would welcome the thoughts of those who built the layouts and have no doubt starting to get the invites.

 

Nick 

[ruggedpeak]

I was a little surprised that the standard warnings were not issued at the start: "Mild peril, injury detail".

 

Which included a drilled finger and the blood covered drill bit

[Ramblin Rich]

No synopsis from Phil Parker yet? Perhaps he had better things to do on a Saturday night

[Jenny Emily]

 

 

Behind the scenes. I captured Steve’s reaction to ‘his’ items getting given out for the scratchbuild challenge along with Tim’s Baywatch comment that appeared to get cut even though team Corby later mentions it. 
 

So much that was filmed got cut out. I have no idea where the judges and production got the idea of the tree supposed to be ‘bursting’ through the floorboards. We explained repeatedly that it was the kids model railway coming to life as an evil tree grows up through the middle bringing evil life to all the toys. 
 

Quite a few continuity errors, and changes in the scores that go unexplained. All three models were brilliant. 

 

it was never 100% clear what and how it was actually being judged. We completed the brief and our plan and everything worked perfectly. The judging felt very subjective rather than objective. 

[Phil Parker]

7 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

No synopsis from Phil Parker yet? Perhaps he had better things to do on a Saturday night

 

He does. He's working on it right now so you have something to read this evening. It's a bumper issue!

[Jenny Emily]

I’m also miffed at Kathy’s comment about either end looking like an afterthought of plonked stuff. If they had actually paid attention to the interview with team members (cut from the transmitted program) they would have known that every item had a significance as either something pertaining to a team member, back story or social reference.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Jenny Emily

[ruggedpeak]

11 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

I’m also miffed at Kathy’s comment about either end looking like an afterthought of plonked stuff. If they had actually paid attention to the interview with team members (cut from the transmitted program) they would have known that every item had a significance as either something pertaining to a team member, back story or social reference.

That is completely normal for TV production. What you see on screen rarely bears any relation to the reality that was filmed, and if the context or background to something can't be explained in 3 seconds or less then it will be lost.

 

I agree with the continuity issues, this episode and some of the more recent ones have become more disjointed and randomised. It is also clear actual trains are becoming less and less important to the format. That may be deliberate as in my household the non-train people like all the non-railway modelling things (volcanos etc) and would have no interest if it focused on actual trains.

[LocoLadies CF]

1 hour ago, stivesnick said:

My concern over some of these layouts, is how they might be seen at exhibitions over the coming year. What is being produced is based around a 2-3 minute presentation to the judges. But how does this translate into an appearance for perhaps 6-7 hours at a show as many of the actions are not easily repeatable (the earthquake scenes come to mind)?

When I designed the LocoLadies Bucolic Britain I didn’t realise it at the time, because it was for a competition after all, that I had really made an exhibition layout that was repeatable and could run continuously.  That may well be why we are going to Warley NMRE as Special Guests. However, our ‘repeatable’ animations didn’t appear to excite the judges.

 

Our crochet trees have attracted a lot more positive comments than I think Kathy anticipated. I always knew they would be a bit like Marmite though! Love or hate!! 

 

However, all power to the teams in this semi final though. You all did a terrific job. 

 

 

 

[caradoc]

All three teams constructed excellent layouts and of course it is a great pity that one had to be knocked out.

 

I also find the scoring system bizarre; When the 'intermediate' scores are awarded we often hear that they may be revised later, but never get told when this has been done, or why.

 

[D9003]

One of the things that you didn’t really see on the Knights of the Round Turntable as shown on TV was that the white knight actually traversed nearly all of the layout including both the inner and outer circuits and the crossovers at both the front and the rear of the layout, before heading off the circuit to the siding where the horse rode off the train.  Therefore, even though the trains were meant to be invisible, there was actually a lot of model railway operation in the demonstration.

 

Also, as Graham has already stated, the animation of the turntable and the lady of the lake were both achieved with model railway mechanisms running on OO track, as was the radio telescope in our heat layout.  In both layouts we were trying to make the maximum use of model railway technology to achieve the briefs we had been given.

 

To give you an idea of the amount of model railway operation involved, our heat layout used 6 controllers (and could have done with a seventh) and the Knights of the Round Turntable used 4.

[Huw Griffiths]

15 minutes ago, caradoc said:

All three teams constructed excellent layouts and of course it is a great pity that one had to be knocked out.

 

I also find the scoring system bizarre; When the 'intermediate' scores are awarded we often hear that they may be revised later, but never get told when this has been done, or why.

 

 

There could be a number of reasons for this:

 

When these marks are provisionally awarded, a lot of the stuff hasn't actually been completed - so the judges are trying to guess how they're going to work out.

 

Also, there might be an element of them also trying to assess the quality of / impression given by the completed layout as a whole - something which "bits and pieces" marks might not really allow for adequately.

 

Assuming that future series get commissioned next year and beyond, I wouldn't be at all surprised if an extra scoring category were to be created to cater for this.

 

 

Huw.

[noiseboy72]

I agree that scoring during the build is extremely hard, as different layouts mature at different rates. our (Team Muddle and Go Nowhere) method is to build the buildings etc. off the layout with 3 or more team members, leaving 2 on day 1 and 1 on day 2 to work on the basics of the layouts - trackwork and electrics. The scenics then all come together in a very intense period, so it all looks and feels very last minute. 

 

I did enjoy the fantasy layouts and I think that you will see more "traditional" layouts in the next semi. I'm still glad we went through as Wildcard, as I'm not sure we would have been able to compete against any of the other entries! 

[LMS29]

2 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

There could be a number of reasons for this:

 

When these marks are provisionally awarded, a lot of the stuff hasn't actually been completed - so the judges are trying to guess how they're going to work out.

 

Also, there might be an element of them also trying to assess the quality of / impression given by the completed layout as a whole - something which "bits and pieces" marks might not really allow for adequately.

 

Assuming that future series get commissioned next year and beyond, I wouldn't be at all surprised if an extra scoring category were to be created to cater for this.

 

 

Huw.

 

For me the process of assessing aspects of the build at the end of Day 1 and Day 2 and projecting marks was a bit artificial. As we saw each team had its own pathway to completion. I saw it simply as a device to build some tension on TV.  We were not aware of the judges deliberations or these provisional marks during the competition. 

[whart57]

Hmm, this one left me cold I'm afraid. OK some clever work done but let's face it it only met the first and fourth words of the title, the middle two were pretty absent.

 

Part of the trouble I think stems from the fact that the format changed. The fixed track plan was meant to be the quarter final (if memory serves me right) and the carry something from one end to the other challenge was in the semi. Combining them into one round added to the workload which showed up in the projected scores for build quality.

 

Then there was the choice of theme. Whereas the heat themes and the other semi-final theme still had some sort of railway link, this one had completely cast off its moorings. Team Grantham's way of getting round it was clever, but a model railway?

[Phil Parker]

My roundup is now live: https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/reviews/the-great-model-railway-challenge-series-2-semi-final-1-myths-m/

[Pacific231G]

6 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

 

 

Behind the scenes. I captured Steve’s reaction to ‘his’ items getting given out for the scratchbuild challenge along with Tim’s Baywatch comment that appeared to get cut even though team Corby later mentions it. 
 

So much that was filmed got cut out. I have no idea where the judges and production got the idea of the tree supposed to be ‘bursting’ through the floorboards. We explained repeatedly that it was the kids model railway coming to life as an evil tree grows up through the middle bringing evil life to all the toys. 
 

Quite a few continuity errors, and changes in the scores that go unexplained. All three models were brilliant. 

 

it was never 100% clear what and how it was actually being judged. We completed the brief and our plan and everything worked perfectly. The judging felt very subjective rather than objective. 

Hi Jenny

Very interesting to see the filming taking place.

Just from watching the programme I hadn't sussed that your layout was a 1:1 (?) model of a model railway taken over by evil spirits. I actually think that was a really imaginative idea. For some reason, it does now make me think of the scene in Close Encounters where Richard Dreyfus manically builds a model of the Devil's Tower on the family's model railroad but that's a completely different thing.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Pacific231G

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Once again, I think hats off to all the participants for their incredible achievements - as we learn more about the constraints of the filming process and production schedule, it makes the reality of what is being produced even more impressive.

 

Of all the themes / titles that have been set by the powers that be, I think this was the hardest to approach within what might be termed 'conventional railway modelling,' - I wouldn't have known where to start!  I think the question Neil (who has been a participant in this series, of course) asks is a fair one:

 

9 hours ago, Neil said:

For me this episode posed an interesting question, when does a model railway cease to become a model railway?

 

It's no reflection on the quality of what the teams produced, for me it is more about the task that was set.  I think this comment from one of Team Grantham offers a helpful insight into how they interpreted the challenge:

 

4 hours ago, D9003 said:

...we were trying to make the maximum use of model railway technology to achieve the briefs we had been given.

 

Based on what I saw on the programme last night, I'd say they succeeded...and then some!  The additional explanations offered on this thread are well worth reading for the further illumination they offer, too.  Their use of model railway technology came across as ingenious and professionally done.

 

Perhaps what we see here is a possible tension between a desire to produce an entertaining TV show for the general public that can continue to attract audiences (and hence remain commercially viable), as compared to the appetite of devotees of the hobby for higher and higher standards of detail and realism, as we see month by month in the modelling press - and on the shelves of our model stores.  In the highly competitive world of commercial broadcasting, the question as to how to retain the interest of the viewing public, particularly on a Saturday night, is one that I suspect applies to all long-running series over time.

 

In terms of the difference between a short demonstration and an all-day exhibition, a question stivesnick asks (below), I wonder if the Corby model from last night might have the greatest potential for conversion into a long-running exhibition layout, if they want to, having more of the attributes of a conventional fantasy layout that might fit into the requirements of an exhibition portfolio where it is displayed alongside traditional layouts?  It's just a thought.

 

7 hours ago, stivesnick said:

What is being produced is based around a 2-3 minute presentation to the judges. But how does this translate into an appearance for perhaps 6-7 hours at a show as many of the actions are not easily repeatable

 

Once again, well done to all involved, Keith.

[LNER4479]

Thanks for further comments, good and bad!

 

I have to say that I am in complete agreement in terms of the 'was this railway modelling?' discussion. We were aware that what we had planned was rather different to our Heat layout but we did not otherwise set out to be radical. As I have mentioned already, we actually had very little time to work up a design as we were in the middle of a fair amount of pre-build work to our Heat layout; but we were all required to submit our designs some weeks prior to semi-final filming (for them to be OK'd and then the stuff to be ordered).

 

When we got the theme, the first thing we were all agreed on was NOT dinosaurs, not our 'thing' at all. Instead, conversation around 'legends' threw up St George n Dragon, Robin Hood ... and King Arthur. It just grew from there.

 

The 'light bulb' moment for me was the jousting knights, realising that we had a double track railway whereby they could rush at each other.

 

The production company liked it as a design so it was 'job done' and back to the work on the Heat layout.

 

Yes, not a conventional model railway at all, rather a challenge involving the use of model railway equipment. Happily - for us - the judges ultimately went along with that.

Edited October 13, 2019 by LNER4479

[CraigT]

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Once again, I think hats off to all the participants for their incredible achievements - as we learn more about the constraints of the filming process and production schedule, it makes the reality of what is being produced even more impressive.

 

Of all the themes / titles that have been set by the powers that be, I think this was the hardest to approach within what might be termed 'conventional railway modelling,' - I wouldn't have known where to start!  I think the question Neil (who has been a participant in this series, of course) asks is a fair one:

 

 

It's no reflection on the quality of what the teams produced, for me it is more about the task that was set.  I think this comment from one of Team Grantham offers a helpful insight into how they interpreted the challenge:

 

 

Based on what I saw on the programme last night, I'd say they succeeded...and then some!  The additional explanations offered on this thread are well worth reading for the further illumination they offer, too.  Their use of model railway technology came across as ingenious and professionally done.

 

Perhaps what we see here is a possible tension between a desire to produce an entertaining TV show for the general public that can continue to attract audiences (and hence remain commercially viable), as compared to the appetite of devotees of the hobby for higher and higher standards of detail and realism, as we see month by month in the modelling press - and on the shelves of our model stores.  In the highly competitive world of commercial broadcasting, the question as to how to retain the interest of the viewing public, particularly on a Saturday night, is one that I suspect applies to all long-running series over time.

 

In terms of the difference between a short demonstration and an all-day exhibition, a question stivesnick asks (below), I wonder if the Corby model from last night might have the greatest potential for conversion into a long-running exhibition layout, if they want to, having more of the attributes of a conventional fantasy layout that might fit into the requirements of an exhibition portfolio where it is displayed alongside traditional layouts?  It's just a thought.

 

 

Once again, well done to all involved, Keith.

both the Corby heat and semi final layouts were designed to be split and used in the future with careful consideration for this. They will both be on display with everything functioning at our forthcoming exhibition on 26th and 27th of October. Check out the CDMRS or our Facebook page for more details. Even the volcano has starting erupting again! 

[hicksan]

44 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

The production company liked it as a design so it was 'job done' and back to the work on the Heat layout.

 

Yes, not a conventional model railway at all, rather a challenge involving the use of model railway equipment. Happily - for us - the judges ultimately went along with that. 

I think one of the problems with the show, not that it has many, is that the production team and the judges have differing priorities. It is the production team that are very much involved in the planning stage - telling the teams what they do and don't like and issuing strong directions as to what they want to see. The teams then find, on set, that the judges may have completely different ideas and may hate an idea that the production team pushed the team towards. Missenden Modellers discovered that conflict the hard way in series 1 but were not by any means the only team to find themselves steered down a dead end. The production team are not, at all, railway modellers - so their interest is in what they think the viewing public will like (regardless of whether the judges will like it) including elements of plot conflict to add dramatic tension to the show - which may be why the show is gradually but obviously departing from any direct association with railways. The last episode might as easily have been titled "The Great Model Gimmick Challenge". Teams ought to go in to this with their eyes open: we have a great time on set but the broadcast result isn't always quite true to the spirit of what actually happened. That's tv for you. It's still good for the hobby and the public love the losers as much as the winners, so you just have to go with it and enjoy the ride.

[Professor Yaffle]

Three really interesting layouts, well done guys.

 

If I was wearing a hat, Team Grantham, it would be doffed in your direction. As we shambled away from heat 5 we really felt for you. We were knackered after 3 days, Ive no idea how you felt after 6 days of it.

 

Well done again all