hornby 2020 Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)

[Ian Hargrave]

9 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Royal Mail  wil come and collect for 72p - how easy is that!  You can buy your postage online at past 10 o'clock at night and still get the item collected next day.

 

Regards Ray

Now that’s worth knowing.Many thanks Ray.

[WisTramwayMan]

3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I don’t expect everyone to be pleased at the lack of a front NEM socket but I’m not so sure that it is purely a cost-cutting exercise. The lack of one certainly improves the appearance of the front of the bogie if, like me, you dress up the front of the loco. I couldn’t agree more with the rest of your points.

Will be interesting to see what Hornby do with the P2s later in the year.

On the A2/2s, A2/3s and P2 class in their day I would think it unlikely that tender first running occurred (and even, if so, a rarity). For 2007 Prince of Wales, however, the same is unlikely to be true - visits to preserved railways which have no turntables, and it will probably see considerable amounts of it.....

[landscapes]

Hi

 

Hornby A2/2 60501 Cock O the north nearly completed now, just need some more weathering over the locomotive boiler and the tender side to darken up the green livery.

 

Regards

 

David

[robmcg]

2 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi

 

Hornby A2/2 60501 Cock O the north nearly completed now, just need some more weathering over the locomotive boiler and the tender side to darken up the green livery.

 

Regards

 

David

 

Looking good and I think weathering will improve the boiler no end.

 

Thanks for your comments re my picture-making... I use every trick I can find to get the look I like,   essentially I use two lap tops and two phones to look at pictures,  an Acer (rather bluish by default) an Asus (rather yellow by default)  and each has been made as neutral as possible in advanced display settings,  an iPhone 6 and an Android phone, these are all slightly different when viewed one after another.

I use Paintshop Pro 6 for most post-exposure editing (it is about US$12.95 ), but also Picasa photo editor (free) .

My camera is a Canon EOS-M half frame with 18-55mm kit lens.  I usually have a mix of natural light and a little tungsten reading lamp light and I use F29-32 and exposures typically 8-12 seconds, ISO 100. No filters.

 

PSP6 allows a lot of tricks, but I do most things manually, even focussing of various exposures when I graft several together, can't get my head around stacking, I care a lot about perspective, distortion, shading, highlighting, saturation, all the usual things, and try to simply enjoy myself.  It has taken 10 years and thousands of photos and still learning.

 

Cheers and good luck with weathering, beautiful model, can't wait to see mine!

 

edit,  while I wait for my deliveries from England would you mind if I messed around with your picture?

Edited February 15, 2021 by robmcg

[atom3624]

Looking good David.

 

There's no doubt the detailing is excellent, it's the colour that's the problem.

Green a tad light without appearing faded, and the bands / lining .... erm .... !!

 

Glad to see you trimmed the cylinder drains.

 

Al.

[landscapes]

32 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

Looking good and I think weathering will improve the boiler no end.

 

Thanks for your comments re my picture-making... I use every trick I can find to get the look I like,   essentially I use two lap tops and two phones to look at pictures,  an Acer (rather bluish by default) an Asus (rather yellow by default)  and each has been made as neutral as possible in advanced display settings,  an iPhone 6 and an Android phone, these are all slightly different when viewed one after another.

I use Paintshop Pro 6 for most post-exposure editing (it is about US$12.95 ), but also Picasa photo editor (free) .

My camera is a Canon EOS-M half frame with 18-55mm kit lens.  I usually have a mix of natural light and a little tungsten reading lamp light and I use F29-32 and exposures typically 8-12 seconds, ISO 100. No filters.

 

PSP6 allows a lot of tricks, but I do most things manually, even focussing of various exposures when I graft several together, can't get my head around stacking, I care a lot about perspective, distortion, shading, highlighting, saturation, all the usual things, and try to simply enjoy myself.  It has taken 10 years and thousands of photos and still learning.

 

Cheers and good luck with weathering, beautiful model, can't wait to see mine!

 

edit,  while I wait for my deliveries from England would you mind if I messed around with your picture?

Hi Rob

 

Your explanation sounds very complicated and more like brain surgery to me, but thank you for taking the time to put an explanation on how you produce your stunning photos.

 

please feel free to edit or adapt any of my photos I post.

 

There are many more on my Haymarket 64B thread please help yourself .

 

Regards

 

David

[landscapes]

15 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Looking good David.

 

There's no doubt the detailing is excellent, it's the colour that's the problem.

Green a tad light without appearing faded, and the bands / lining .... erm .... !!

 

Glad to see you trimmed the cylinder drains.

 

Al.

Hi Al

 

This may found strange but the colour does look a little better now whether that’s because I have just got use to it or maybe where I applied a coat of Johnson’s Klear and some very slight weathering which I then removed with a dirty white spirit solution and that has slightly darkened the green I am not sure.

 

I will probably get a friend of mine who does weathering to waft over a light dusting of soot to all the green areas.

 

Regards

 

David

[robmcg]

21 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi Rob

 

Your explanation sounds very complicated and more like brain surgery to me, but thank you for taking the time to put an explanation on how you produce your stunning photos.

 

please feel free to edit or adapt any of my photos I post.

 

There are many more on my Haymarket 64B thread please help yourself .

 

Regards

 

David

 

You are very kind. Mostly I adapt photos I take and add backgrounds and so on.  I may find some in your collection which I would love to mess around with, 

 

Here is my version of 64B  ... I have a book entitled 'Steam Days at Haymarket' which is the same size as a typical Irwell 'Book of..'  and I recall greatly enjoying it some years ago, I must take another look, but in the meantime here is a version of your photo with a bit more contrast and the addition of the kind of thing of which Tony Wright would not approve...    

 

Most enjoyable and quite a challenge to do much with Hornby livery... I've made the light a bit more harsh than is common that far north!

 

 

 

May I say what a pleasure it is to see such a lovely model, any production faults notwithstanding, which can look so good. Your shed modelling is clearly top-notch, and I am aware that the shed environs were generally kept very tidy by BR standards.

 

I wonder how the Haymarket drivers and firemen felt if they ever got landed with an A2/2? I know they had three A2/1s for many years, not sure about A2/3s.

 

edit; I am not supposed to put edited pictures in product threads so if anyone complains it could be put perhaps in your Haymarket thread?

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by robmcg

[Brocp]

13 hours ago, 60800 said:

A bit of a combination of tooling issues and assembly issues, but I had to strip down, file away at bits and completely rebuild the front end of my Princess to reduce the ski-jump. I still have issues with the valve gear not sitting correctly and I have a plan for that but it won't be an easy fix. 

 

Cheers,

  60800 

 

What's your plan for that mate? I tried all the things you did to reduce the ski jump on one of my two princesses and i couldn't get it any lower, unless i missed something? The body, when off the chassis, just has the unnatural ski jump. I can't see a way of changing it.

[60800]

1 hour ago, Brocp said:

 

What's your plan for that mate? I tried all the things you did to reduce the ski jump on one of my two princesses and i couldn't get it any lower, unless i missed something? The body, when off the chassis, just has the unnatural ski jump. I can't see a way of changing it.

 

I had to break all the glued joints as far back as the first splasher, then removed the fake front frames, filed those square and glued them back in after having bent the running plate just forward of the smokebox. 

 

My plan for the valve gear is to file more off the underside of the running plate then file 1mm off the front face of the motion bracket and re-inforce it with a strip of brass. 

 

Half of the issue with the motion bracket is just how flimsy it is. The loco is still in the box at the minute but I'll be working on it end of Feb and will update the Princess thread with my mods then.

 

Cheers 

  60800 

[Paddy]

Hi Folks,

 

My heart goes out to all of you affected by these issues and also Hornby.  To go to all that effort of designing a model which even @Tony Wright believes is one of the most accurate RTR models for it to be poorly assembled is heartbreaking.  It also sounds like other Hornby models are suffering from manufacturing issues as well.

 

In my humble opinion, Hornby need to get ahead of this in a proactive manner and should acknowledge the issues and offer reassurance to its loyal customers.  They really do not want to get a reputation for poor workmanship as this could quickly undo all the hard work they have done as part of their recovery.

It would great if one of the model railway magazines raised these issues with Hornby and helped them to manage communication etc.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Paddy

[G-BOAF]

28 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Hi Folks,

 

My heart goes out to all of you affected by these issues and also Hornby.  To go to all that effort of designing a model which even @Tony Wright believes is one of the most accurate RTR models for it to be poorly assembled is heartbreaking.  It also sounds like other Hornby models are suffering from manufacturing issues as well.

 

In my humble opinion, Hornby need to get ahead of this in a proactive manner and should acknowledge the issues and offer reassurance to its loyal customers.  They really do not want to get a reputation for poor workmanship as this could quickly undo all the hard work they have done as part of their recovery.

It would great if one of the model railway magazines raised these issues with Hornby and helped them to manage communication etc.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

 

The problem with this idea is thst magazines dont want to bite the hand that feeds. If they highlight flaws in the model the manufacturer will simply stop supplying models for review or advertising with them. Minor quibbles and constructive criticism fine but significant issues affecting the whole batch, unlikely in a magazine.

 

 

I watched Sams Trains review a few days agi, initially just for a laugh as he basically criticises anything that costs over £120 and has no real prototype knowlegde. I wondered how he could slate the A2 so much given all the positive noise. Then i looked on here and see similar views. Oh dear.

 

Maybe a few models being returned directly to Hornby for 'repair' will draw their attention to the issues....

Edited February 16, 2021 by G-BOAF

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

Hi Folks,

 

My heart goes out to all of you affected by these issues and also Hornby.  To go to all that effort of designing a model which even @Tony Wright believes is one of the most accurate RTR models for it to be poorly assembled is heartbreaking.  It also sounds like other Hornby models are suffering from manufacturing issues as well.

 

In my humble opinion, Hornby need to get ahead of this in a proactive manner and should acknowledge the issues and offer reassurance to its loyal customers.  They really do not want to get a reputation for poor workmanship as this could quickly undo all the hard work they have done as part of their recovery.

It would great if one of the model railway magazines raised these issues with Hornby and helped them to manage communication etc.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

Thank you Paddy for this.Accepting responsibility for what has happened is a key issue and a thorny question because there have been difficulties with quality for quite a while.At this juncture it is difficult to see what could immediately be done as the model is currently in retailer distribution.I think some are still awaiting their allocation.

 

I has to be said that some will be quite happy with their model and of course others not.Some too are content to fettle theirs as we see above. It’s a matter of personal judgement.I’ve read about and seen some of the issues encountered,even to the extent of allowing myself a viewing of Sam’s Trains you tube video last evening. He rightly doesn’t mince his words about it and compares it with a Bachmann A2/1 with which it comes across as a poorly finished second best.He highlights the livery application and dull paint finish,amongst other things. The conclusion made is that it’s not value for money.Given what I saw I can but agree with Sam....and I’m normally not a fan of his channel.....but on this occasion etc.

 
So then what to do ? Bachmann have twice provided a product recall.Once with a grossly underpowered A1 which was returned to China for remotoring,mine included. We posted to Barwell and they did the rest.They were returned in due course with new motor.Secondly with the later release Class 40 which landed with the wrong kind of lubricant.Barwell did a similar recall but this time did the stripping down and relubricating in house,employing extra staff to help with the job here. But.....Bachmann is Chinese owned with its own factory production....Hornby sub contracts so they are very different and returning to China in this instance would be a logistical nightmare and probably not to be contemplated.  Again,I can think of a couple of examples where Hornby did actually provide replacements for models delivered with design errors...a GW B Set and a wrong tender body for rebuilt WC 34050.This they did acknowledge and acted courteously and correctly 

 

 Anyone unhappy with their model has normal consumer legal rights of course .Unlike Paddy,I cannot be too sympathetic with Hornby.Production quality should not be serendipity and if this actually is a source new to them then a more thorough investigation is needed before using this factory. It’s clear that the sloppiness in finish is cost cutting down to a price ....the cab details being one example.

 

A recall of the production batch would be a brave act and probably won’t happen.Be good for ongoing customer relations if it did .Stopping further distribution might be a way forward but would cause an inevitable cash flow problem.Something reassuring and constructive surely needs to happen.

 

 

 

 

[Hilux5972]

2 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Maybe a few models being returned directly to Hornby for 'repair' will draw their attention to the issues....

Yes and there in lies the problem. I would say more people repair themselves than return, especially those of us at the bottom of the world. I myself did so with my GWR Heavy tanks. 

[60027Merlin]

For those whose purchases are not up to standard they should write to Hornby in a business like,  objective manner where possible attaching photographs of the poor aspects in the model(s).

 

That way Hornby will have, what looks like, a good number of complaints to deal with from customers rather than just read comments in various Webs. They cannot ignore a great number of written comments from customers as many would also not be willing to purchase for future models as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

7 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

For those whose purchases are not up to standard they should write to Hornby in a business like,  objective manner where possible attaching photographs of the poor aspects in the model(s).

 

That way Hornby will have, what looks like, a good number of complaints to deal with from customers rather than just read comments in various Webs. They cannot ignore a great number of written comments from customers as many would also not be willing to purchase for future models as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They also incidentally look in on this forum,so they should be aware of the issues.But what you suggest is an excellent idea,especially in this age of digital online imaging. As regarding their response,I wish I could be optimistic,given a long history of denial of such problems. But certainly worth a shot if you get problems out of the box. 

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

 

The problem with this idea is thst magazines dont want to bite the hand that feeds. If they highlight flaws in the model the manufacturer will simply stop supplying models for review or advertising with them. Minor quibbles and constructive criticism fine but significant issues affecting the whole batch, unlikely in a magazine.

 

 

I watched Sams Trains review a few days agi, initially just for a laugh as he basically criticises anything that costs over £120 and has no real prototype knowlegde. I wondered how he could slate the A2 so much given all the positive noise. Then i looked on here and see similar views. Oh dear.

 

Maybe a few models being returned directly to Hornby for 'repair' will draw their attention to the issues....

 

But Hornby doesn’t supply review models does it ? But your general point is correct.  Magazines usually stay well clear of being overly critical and fewer of us buy them than used to in any case,relying on “reviews “ on YouTube 

 

 

 

 

[atom3624]

Wasn't aware of the A1 recall.

 

Probably why both of my Tornados - light and dark green - have larger motors and fly like the best from Hornby!

 

Al.

[G-BOAF]

9 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Wasn't aware of the A1 recall.

 

Probably why both of my Tornados - light and dark green - have larger motors and fly like the best from Hornby!

 

Al.

The very first batch of Bachmann A1s were recalled due to having under-powered motors. This was the early 2000s I think, maybe?

[RCAR6015]

I really hope that the factory that produced this model has not been awarded the order to assemble the forthcoming re- release of the B.R. class 6 Clan locomotive

[G-BOAF]

I strongly suspect that part of the problem will be the varnish on the green is to matte, this is scattering too much light on the surface, and generally washing out the colour.

 

I seem to remember the Hornby King suffered from a similar problem, but not the high-gloss Locomotion KGV model, despite using the same base colour.

 

Either way, someone either dropped the ball in terms of signing off on livery samples (Hornby's fault), or the factory did not deliver on what was signed off (contractors fault, and there should be clauses in contracts that require redress....).

[landscapes]

12 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

You are very kind. Mostly I adapt photos I take and add backgrounds and so on.  I may find some in your collection which I would love to mess around with, 

 

Here is my version of 64B  ... I have a book entitled 'Steam Days at Haymarket' which is the same size as a typical Irwell 'Book of..'  and I recall greatly enjoying it some years ago, I must take another look, but in the meantime here is a version of your photo with a bit more contrast and the addition of the kind of thing of which Tony Wright would not approve...    

 

Most enjoyable and quite a challenge to do much with Hornby livery... I've made the light a bit more harsh than is common that far north!

 

 

 

May I say what a pleasure it is to see such a lovely model, any production faults notwithstanding, which can look so good. Your shed modelling is clearly top-notch, and I am aware that the shed environs were generally kept very tidy by BR standards.

 

I wonder how the Haymarket drivers and firemen felt if they ever got landed with an A2/2? I know they had three A2/1s for many years, not sure about A2/3s.

 

edit; I am not supposed to put edited pictures in product threads so if anyone complains it could be put perhaps in your Haymarket thread?

 

Hi Rob

 

Why on earth  would anyone want to complain about your image, it’s absolutely superb with lots of atmosphere and you have done wonders with that green livery which is something I have not to have been to do so far.

 

I do get quite a lot of comments on my Haymarket 64B thread about how clean the shed environment is but it’s far from completed.

 

I have completed all the track wiring but 14 digital point motors need to be wired and installed, until that is done and all the track-work tested the scenic works will have to wait.

 

The book you are referring to Steam days at Haymarket was the reason I first started building the MPD in 00 scale, that and fellow member Merlin Eric Kidds layout Longdrem and Pink Hill which is also on RMWeb both gave me the inspiration to start the project.

 

Also I had the privilege and pleasure to have communicated with the author of the Haymarket book, a gentleman call Harry Knox, he stated work there as an engine cleaner in the mid 1950’s a progressed to passed fireman.

 

I do t believe he became a driver as he went onto other managerial duties with the Scottish railways, he was a very nice man to communicate with and always very helpful with information regarding the MPD, sadly Harry passed away about a year to eighteen  months ago, a sad loss.

 

The A2/2’a were allocated to Haymarket in the late 1940’s early 1940’s and as you have already said they had three A2/1’s on their books but only one A2/3. 60519 Honeyway.

 

I do have a PDK kit built A2/1 on my layout it’s No 60510 Robert the Bruce and a brilliant model it is.

 

Finally please feel free to post any of your images of Haymarket and it’s locomotives on my Haymarket 64B thread I have no objections what so ever and please feel free to use any of my photo images on the thread as well.

 

Regards

 

David

[atom3624]

1 hour ago, G-BOAF said:

I strongly suspect that part of the problem will be the varnish on the green is to matte, this is scattering too much light on the surface, and generally washing out the colour.

 

I seem to remember the Hornby King suffered from a similar problem, but not the high-gloss Locomotion KGV model, despite using the same base colour.

 

Either way, someone either dropped the ball in terms of signing off on livery samples (Hornby's fault), or the factory did not deliver on what was signed off (contractors fault, and there should be clauses in contracts that require redress....).

Simply using 'rattle cans' I find that lacquer / varnish is very sensitive to temperature - cooler than 'x' and it's rubbish, above it, it's fine - perhaps they were sprayed in a hangar / factory that was too cool?

 

Al.

[G-BOAF]

4 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Simply using 'rattle cans' I find that lacquer / varnish is very sensitive to temperature - cooler than 'x' and it's rubbish, above it, it's fine - perhaps they were sprayed in a hangar / factory that was too cool?

 

Al.

Could be

But something very much within the control of the factory - if you are working with varnish for a certain finish, ensure room is heated to X degrees before starting the shift.....

The onus is then on Hornby to have specified varnish/finish. Not quite sure how you can specify a varnish - its not like colour which has a CMYK/RGB code.... (I presume there is a way of quantifying varnish though...?). Maybe have a test piece showing 'this is how the finished colour should look when varnished'

Edited February 16, 2021 by G-BOAF

[Ian Hargrave]

20 hours ago, RCAR6015 said:

I really hope that the factory that produced this model has not been awarded the order to assemble the forthcoming re- release of the B.R. class 6 Clan locomotive

 
Or any other release