S&DRT told to quit Washford by WSR

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, Dava said:

What will the WSR do about the D&EPG at Williton? Are they useful in restoring diesel motive power or also 'cuckoos in the nest' who could be remov?

 

Dava

It's a very different arrangement between the D&EPG  and the WSR. The D&EPG have always been supportive of the WSR in volunteer labour, motive power and financially.

 

Probably best not to look for issues where they don't exist.

 

[Gilbert]

Apologies if this has been referred to already

 

http://www.sdrt.org/images/files/news/press_release_22-02-20.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0A1WCoxP9Jvp6resAsrl4twAifTN3mnHCM4k9zzeiohAogCISOQB0JRGs

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Apologies if this has been referred to already

 

http://www.sdrt.org/images/files/news/press_release_22-02-20.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0A1WCoxP9Jvp6resAsrl4twAifTN3mnHCM4k9zzeiohAogCISOQB0JRGs

 

The bit about 53808 sounds a bit ominous.

 

Mike.

[Chris M]

I'm sure there are plenty of other railways who would happily look after 53808. If I was the S&DT I would move it elsewhere asap as there is clearly bad blood between the two organisations.

 

The big problem for the WSR is that there are plenty more "fish in the sea".  Somewhat oddly the shorter railways of the south west such as the Bodmin & Wenford, The South Devon Railway and Paignton & Dartmouth Steam Railway appeal more to me than the longer run on the WSR. I can't put my finger on it but the WSR doesn't have the charm of the others. The others have all got there own special character that works for me but the WSR doesn't quite do it. This may not be logical but its just how I feel. The events of the last 12 months have done nothing to improve this feeling.

[Joseph_Pestell]

21 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Update from WSR

http://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm#1970

 

 

I find that statement from WSR quite extraordinary. It shows a lack of basic business sense which may explain the situation that they are in.

 

1) A tenant has no obligation, legally or morally, to give you financial aid.

2) If the rent is too low, you put it up at lease renewal - not try to do so a couple of years into the lease.

 

I like the West Somerset and wish it well. But when that press release comes up at a Land Tribunal, WSR is going to end up paying substantial costs to SDRT. How does that help the WSR finances?

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I find that statement from WSR quite extraordinary. It shows a lack of basic business sense which may explain the situation that they are in.

 

1) A tenant has no obligation, legally or morally, to give you financial aid.

2) If the rent is too low, you put it up at lease renewal - not try to do so a couple of years into the lease.

 

I like the West Somerset and wish it well. But when that press release comes up at a Land Tribunal, WSR is going to end up paying substantial costs to SDRT. How does that help the WSR finances?

I think if you ask the current people running the WSR they would argue the people previously running it had no idea how to run it and is why it got into a parlous state that saw the ORR get involved and the big asks for money to replace the track.

 

Lovely video here with big diesels, these and big tender locos have been banned for the past 12 months until the track is able to take them again - the tender engines at the next gala would suggest they are now at last making progress on the renewals.

 

 

[5944]

The locos for the gala are 92134, 78018 and 76084. The latter has the highest axle load of less than 18 tons, so within RA5 which I believe is the current limit of the line. The 47 is RA7, hence why it's off the NYMR for a few months, it can't be used at WSR. 

[Denbridge]

On 22/02/2020 at 09:23, PenrithBeacon said:

The WSR was talking c2010 about taking over Washford because it needed the space and making an offer for the 2-8-0. If a new lease was signed less than two years ago why has the lessee been given notice?

The WSR have plenty of space at Norton Fitzwarren. More likely they are after the shed which I understand the S&D trust built and paid for themselves.

[Jonboy]

3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

1) A tenant has no obligation, legally or morally, to give you financial aid.

 

it may come down to the wording of terms around service charges and such that relate to joint and communal services.

 

These can be less clear cut than the headline rent(and the only people that win from disagreements are the lawyers...).

[davefrk]

I heard the WSR had also renaged on doing overhaul work for others and asked them to remove the items from the premises asap, from a good source who is involved.

 

Dave.

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 hours ago, Denbridge said:

The WSR have plenty of space at Norton Fitzwarren. More likely they are after the shed which I understand the S&D trust built and paid for themselves.

 

I made that point about the new facilities at Norton Fitzwarren in an earlier post.

 

I think that this is more about the law on leases. The usual justification for a landlord to cut short a lease is that they need the site for their own use. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

6 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I think if you ask the current people running the WSR they would argue the people previously running it had no idea how to run it and is why it got into a parlous state that saw the ORR get involved and the big asks for money to replace the track.

 

 

 

Yes, but it is the current management of the WSR doing this not the last lot.

 

I have not seen the lease involved but, if it is anything like a normal lease for commercial premises, the WSR seems to be making all the wrong moves. Have they taken advice from a Chartered Surveyor?

[Denbridge]

39 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I made that point about the new facilities at Norton Fitzwarren in an earlier post.

 

I think that this is more about the law on leases. The usual justification for a landlord to cut short a lease is that they need the site for their own use. 

Which is basically what I said. The WSR want a yard with a nice big shed. Incidentally,  as well as erecting the building the trust laid the track, which they brought with them from Radstock. So assuming the trust removes all its property,  the WAR will be left with an empty space, to no doubt become another eyesore like Dunster.

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Which is basically what I said. The WSR want a yard with a nice big shed. Incidentally,  as well as erecting the building the trust laid the track, which they brought with them from Radstock. So assuming the trust removes all its property,  the WAR will be left with an empty space, to no doubt become another eyesore like Dunster.

 

They may want one. But do they need one to the extent which a tribunal would deem justifies the termination of the lease? I have doubts.

 

The relationship seems to have broken down to a level which makes it better all round for SDRT to move out. Mediation or arbitration will be needed to determine the amount paid by WSR, both for terminating the lease early and for anything that SDRT leave for them on site. The bill may be rather higher than WSR expect.

[chris p bacon]

6 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Mediation or arbitration will be needed to determine the amount paid by WSR, both for terminating the lease early and for anything that SDRT leave for them on site. The bill may be rather higher than WSR expect.

 

Isn't this a presumption on the terms of the lease.

 

Have you had sight of it ?  I have seen leases that take many forms and no 2 are the same. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Isn't this a presumption on the terms of the lease.

 

Have you had sight of it ?  I have seen leases that take many forms and no 2 are the same. 

 

I said in my post that I have not seen it. Certainly, commercial leases vary greatly but the main clauses are usually fairly similar. The main variant is a clause that states whether or not the lease is made under the provisions of the Landlord & Tenant Act.

 

SDRT would have been very unwise to invest in buildings etc on a site where they do not have any legal protection.

[chris p bacon]

1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

SDRT would have been very unwise to invest in buildings etc on a site where they do not have any legal protection.

 

It wouldn't be the first time. 

 

Whenever I've been to the WSR the Washford site has always been shut, I've never thought it added much to the railway unlike the D&EPG.

[phil-b259]

19 hours ago, Dava said:

What will the WSR do about the D&EPG at Williton? Are they useful in restoring diesel motive power or also 'cuckoos in the nest' who could be remov?

 

Dava

 

The D&EPG have a vested interest in the WSR keeping going (as opposed to being shut down by the ORR for unsafe track.

 

It is thus entirely possible that an agreement has been made by the two parties involved which will help the WSR get over its short term problems.

 

Fundamentally I don’t believe there is an ‘agenda’ as some are suggesting to boot 3rd parties off the WSR - the 25 year agreement signed a year or two between the WSR and the S&DRT being proof of that.

 

However when the ORR are telling the WSR it faces closure unless it starts spending big money bringing its trackwork up to scratch, it does rather change the situation and what may have previously been envisaged is no longer possible.

[phil-b259]

17 hours ago, 5944 said:

A p-way yard that, unlike the current one at Dunster, has virtually no road access, so everything will have to come by rail. Dunster is only 5 or so miles away, so I can't see what benefit there is to moving the p/way yard. 

 

One idle thought is that Dunster offers non railway development potential. With the WSR (and it’s landowner Somerset county council) being short of cash, relocating the p-way, etc to alternative locations and releasing the land for development could bring in some much needed cash for both.

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

One idle thought is that Dunster offers non railway development potential. With the WSR (and it’s landowner Somerset county council) being short of cash, relocating the p-way, etc to alternative locations and releasing the land for development could bring in some much needed cash for both.

 

 

Not what I would call an "idle thought".

[Denbridge]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

It wouldn't be the first time. 

 

Whenever I've been to the WSR the Washford site has always been shut, I've never thought it added much to the railway unlike the D&EPG.

Yet, whenever I've visited it's been open.......

[Denbridge]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

One idle thought is that Dunster offers non railway development potential. With the WSR (and it’s landowner Somerset county council) being short of cash, relocating the p-way, etc to alternative locations and releasing the land for development could bring in some much needed cash for both.

 

 

But why Washford when there is ample, empty space at NF, which is also the ballast handling facility. Combining the PW yards there would be the perfect solution. 

[seraphim]

The WSR Board Member whose name seems associated with this decision - at least per the WSR website - is also a director of the Heritage Railway Association. I wonder how the HRA sees the eviction of a member organisation by one of their own directors?

[phil-b259]

20 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

But why Washford when there is ample, empty space at NF, which is also the ballast handling facility. Combining the PW yards there would be the perfect solution. 

 

NF is right at one end of the line and it could well prove a pain if everything had to come from there for a job up near Minehead.

 

Logically if you are going to concentrate all your maintenance related stuff in one place, it makes sense operationally for that to be as close to the middle of your railway, thus minimising travel time (and loco haulage, etc). Now granted Washford lacks certain things (e.g. decent road - rail access) but there is no reason why it couldn't be a staging area / minor works base with all the heavy duty stuff still based at NF. Not that different in principle to having minor stabling facilities for locos at NF while the main works are at Minehead.

[woodenhead]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-51630832

 

More news on the WSR finances - drastic times call for drastic measures which may reflect the attitude towards the lease held by the S&DRT