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Hornby Rocket - pre-order from Hattons

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26 minutes ago, Ronny said:

For goodness sake, just shut up and move on.

Nothing like telling people to shut up when you want to curtail an argument, I am sure no-one will mention this topic again.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Nothing like telling people to shut up when you want to curtail an argument, I am sure no-one will mention this topic again.

 
The dulcet diplomacy  of “The Donald “.

Edited by Ian Hargrave
missing word
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, andyman7 said:

There are 15 listed on ebay right now, out of an edition of 1500. Reminds of that childhood joke, 'I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate...!'

22 sold, 12 left on ebay...

so in around 2 weeks since release, 2.2% seem to have passed by ebay, of 1500.

Thats not a lot, and theres no more coming from where they came from, so I’d expect that remaining number to fall... 6 of the 12 are auctions and will drop off in a few days.

Edited by adb968008
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I noticed a 'recognised Hornby Retailer' (more renowned for Scalextric sales) has a Limited Edition Rocket on for £140 over list price .... 'nough said!!

 

Al.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I noticed a 'recognised Hornby Retailer' (more renowned for Scalextric sales) has a Limited Edition Rocket on for £140 over list price .... 'nough said!!

 

Al.

 

List price is just that - it isn't a maximum price.

It's called "market forces", or simply put - supply and demand.

If it doesn't sell at that price, no doubt the retailer will lower it until it does.

Discussed on the main Rocket thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by newbryford
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On 28/02/2020 at 21:22, No Decorum said:

I’m inclined to agree. Some years ago, I had a tense weekend until I could get to my PC and order a Hornby Royal 67, which Hornby stated was in very limited supply. It turned out that the limited supply only related to the initial batch and the loco in question was available is such quantities that the remainder was sold at a discount. It reminds me of the saying, “Politicians do not lie; they tell the truth in a manner calculated to mislead.” I recall feeling indignant at what I regarded as fast practice by Hornby – not a feeling any good business wants to create in customers.


I also had a tense weekend recently...  I was told  by a surgeon that I had been referred to by my Doctor that I had a very nasty cancerous growth on my head.... fortunately the biopsy came back negative, and it was then just a routine surgical procedure....

 

I suppose it’s all about perspective.....

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I was one of the unlucky ones who had their pre-order cancelled by Hattons.

 

Accepting pre-orders beyond the stock that was due to be allocated is a questionable business ethic.

 

I have re-acted by cancelling all my pre-orders and placing them with other suppliers which I hope they will be able to supply. I will no longer be shopping with Hattons as my first shop of call and will only now use them as a last resort, and have told them so. Not that I think they will take any notice or care.

 

If they cared about their customers they would not allow this to happen in the first case.

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Good Afternoon Robert,

 

First of all I’d like to sincerely apologise for having let you down in this situation. I’d also like to address a couple of your points if I may.

 

Accepting pre-orders beyond allocated stock levels is a questionable business ethic.

I would agree if this had been done intentionally due to malice or greed. However, this certainly wasn’t the case. We never deliberately look to have more pre-orders taken than we have stock.

 

This wouldn’t have happened if Hattons cared about their customers.

We certainly do care about our customers and we’re taking steps to ensure they do not face this situation again in future.


 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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36 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

Good Afternoon Robert,

 

First of all I’d like to sincerely apologise for having let you down in this situation. I’d also like to address a couple of your points if I may.

 

Accepting pre-orders beyond allocated stock levels is a questionable business ethic.

I would agree if this had been done intentionally due to malice or greed. However, this certainly wasn’t the case. We never deliberately look to have more pre-orders taken than we have stock.

 

This wouldn’t have happened if Hattons cared about their customers.

We certainly do care about our customers and we’re taking steps to ensure they do not face this situation again in future.


 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

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Dave,

 

Whether it was intentional or not, you still accepted pre-orders in excess of the confirmed allocation from Hornby.

 

What you need to do is, when you have sold your initial allocation and you are unsure of additional stock being available, stop taking orders and ask customers to express interest (via your wish list). If you are then able to get additional stock, or a customer cancels his order you can then offer to a customer from the wish list. This seems a fairer way of doing things.

 

You must also realise that when these situations arise, you inevitably damage your reputation.  I must also add that I have walked away from using your shop as my first choice and will only use you now as a shop of last resort.

I have cancelled my outstanding pre-orders with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Not unprecedented because the same thing happened with Hornby's Maunsell pull-push which is a must have model for me as I am modelling the Swanage Railway whereas it is difficult to justify running the 'Rocket' on my layout. It has not stopped me buying one from the Swanage Station shop.

 

Eventually, about two years later, Hornby produced enough pull-push sets to satisfy demand. Now supply exceeds demand and they have turned into Hattons bargains.

 

I expect the same will happen with the 'Rocket' unless you want a red Tri-ang Railways box.

 

Good things come to those who wait as long as you stay alive and smile.

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31 minutes ago, Robert Scott said:

What you need to do is, ....

 

You must...

 

Try suggesting rather than adopting a demanding tone please.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎01‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 17:26, Hal Nail said:

I feel like I've missed something!

 

If you haven't bought a Hornby Rocket in a red box, then that's the answer.

:D

Edited by newbryford
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I have worked in the commercial aviation industry for on 35 years and know that particularly in the United States it was the company policy of most airlines to overbook seats to a factor of 10%.  There was a viral video a year or two ago of an irate and justified passenger, a doctor, who was travelling in the course of his responsibilities as a medical professional.  Just prior leaving the gate on departure the aircraft entry door was opened and airline officials decided that due overbooking he was the one selected to be off loaded to allow another passenger to board.  The passenger explained his need to be on the flight and objected very vocally and was forcibly dragged from the aircraft, suffering minor injuries plus no doubt a lot of embarrassment.  Subsequent legal action saw the passenger rewarded financially but I am sure the experience turned him off using the airline again.  Normally in the case of an overbooked aircraft the airline representative would board the aircraft and offer an incentive,  usually money and overnight accommodation in a hotel free of charge as compensation for any passenger voluntarily vacating their seat.  It is actually illegal in the U.S. to intentionally overbook and in these days of computers how could you not intentionally overbook a flight?

 

I have never prebooked a purchase with Hattons so do not know if a customer is required to pay upfront or payment is taken when the goods arrive instore.   If no payment has been made then given the store's terms and conditions a contract has not been breached.  Of cause goodwill has taken a beating,  however, given that the item was in such limited numbers I do have some sympathy for any who missed out on receiving their order but alas with the limited Hornby allocation to each store it seems it is first in,  first served.  There has to be a more practical and moral distribution from Hornby for limited edition items to give all interested purchasers an even chance to be able to purchase.  I personally think a lottery system so that no one has insider trading or is a favourite customer of a store receiving an allocation.

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2 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

Good Afternoon Robert,

 

First of all I’d like to sincerely apologise for having let you down in this situation. I’d also like to address a couple of your points if I may.

 

Accepting pre-orders beyond allocated stock levels is a questionable business ethic.

I would agree if this had been done intentionally due to malice or greed. However, this certainly wasn’t the case. We never deliberately look to have more pre-orders taken than we have stock.

 

This wouldn’t have happened if Hattons cared about their customers.

We certainly do care about our customers and we’re taking steps to ensure they do not face this situation again in future.


 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Hi

 

I wasn’t going to bother commenting on this thread but I feel I must reply to the above.

 

When the Dapol n gauge 156 was released I had a preorder with yourselves. Unknown to me someone’s had been on a spending spree with my credit card and so when you came to charge me for my order it was refused. I received an email telling me this and I immediately rang you to pay using a different method. I was told that unfortunately the model had now sold out. This would suggest in this instance you also took more preorders than you had allocated stock for.

 

I was lucky and managed to source one elsewhere thanks to this forum.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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7 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

I have worked in the commercial aviation industry for on 35 years and know that particularly in the United States it was the company policy of most airlines to overbook seats to a factor of 10%.  There was a viral video a year or two ago of an irate and justified passenger, a doctor, who was travelling in the course of his responsibilities as a medical professional.  Just prior leaving the gate on departure the aircraft entry door was opened and airline officials decided that due overbooking he was the one selected to be off loaded to allow another passenger to board.  The passenger explained his need to be on the flight and objected very vocally and was forcibly dragged from the aircraft, suffering minor injuries plus no doubt a lot of embarrassment.  Subsequent legal action saw the passenger rewarded financially but I am sure the experience turned him off using the airline again.  Normally in the case of an overbooked aircraft the airline representative would board the aircraft and offer an incentive,  usually money and overnight accommodation in a hotel free of charge as compensation for any passenger voluntarily vacating their seat.  It is actually illegal in the U.S. to intentionally overbook and in these days of computers how could you not intentionally overbook a flight?

 

I have never prebooked a purchase with Hattons so do not know if a customer is required to pay upfront or payment is taken when the goods arrive instore.   If no payment has been made then given the store's terms and conditions a contract has not been breached.  Of cause goodwill has taken a beating,  however, given that the item was in such limited numbers I do have some sympathy for any who missed out on receiving their order but alas with the limited Hornby allocation to each store it seems it is first in,  first served.  There has to be a more practical and moral distribution from Hornby for limited edition items to give all interested purchasers an even chance to be able to purchase.  I personally think a lottery system so that no one has insider trading or is a favourite customer of a store receiving an allocation.

 

It is not illegal to overbook flights in the US. It's done by the airlines because a vast number of people don't show up, so the aircraft would otherwise always fly less than full. On the occasions when the airlines do get caught out, cash is rarely offered as an inducement. Free flights are usually offered. In my experience, which is extensive, there is never any problem finding volunteers to deplane. I've done it myself. Fly a couple of hours later on the next flight and get a free flight to anywhere within the continental US, that's usually a pretty good deal.

 

By the way, nobody is forcibly removed from an aircraft due to overbooking. If nobody leaves, you just sit there until the airline ups the offer until a volunteer emerges.

 

Nothing whatsoever to do with Hornby Rockets but I feel the need to set the record straight.

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27 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Normally in the case of an overbooked aircraft the airline representative would board the aircraft and offer an incentive,  usually money and overnight accommodation in a hotel free of charge as compensation for any passenger voluntarily vacating their seat.  It is actually illegal in the U.S. to intentionally overbook and in these days of computers how could you not intentionally overbook a flight?

 

 

 

 

We had the reverse experience, just prior to boarding a flight from LA, we were approached and as the flight was overbooked (it was about twenty years ago), would we mind delaying our flight? One night in a hotel all inclusive and $100 each, with the possibility of a second night as the flight the following day was also overbooked, another $100. All three of us jumped with joy. We had been playing in a golf tournament in Arizona and fancied some free time in LA. We were asked to remain in the departure lounge while the arrangements were made.

 

Then came the biggest kick in the pants ever, there were some no-shows and there was now room on the flight. We were practically dragged onto the flight kicking and screaming. Still use that airline, just in case it happens again.....

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1 hour ago, Ronny said:

 

It is not illegal to overbook flights in the US. It's done by the airlines because a vast number of people don't show up, so the aircraft would otherwise always fly less than full. .........................................

 

By the way, nobody is forcibly removed from an aircraft due to overbooking. If nobody leaves, you just sit there until the airline ups the offer until a volunteer emerges.

 

Nothing whatsoever to do with Hornby Rockets but I feel the need to set the record straight.

 

Correct nothing to do with the Rocket but the topic seems to be drifting towards overbooking and overbooking or over ordering is a model used in business.  The Federal Aviation Administration enforces its policy of not allowing overbooking on flights and this is why airlines are so eager to offer incentives for passengers to voluntarily vacate their seat.  By judicial law perhaps not "illegal" but overbooking breaches federal aviation regulations.  As regards no one being forcibly removed then no doubt you have never seen the violent viral video several years ago of the doctor being physically dragged off the aircraft incurring injuries because he refused to vacate his seat for another passenger.  

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3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Try suggesting rather than adopting a demanding tone please.

Point taken.

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Reading this thread, I feel huge sympathy for all parties.  It feels to me that the fairly abrupt tone  of the cancellation email with no mitigation is what’s riled people as much as the fact of the cancellation.  Would an earlier email allowing those people who may not have wanted to be on a wait list to make alternative arrangements have also helped?Whether, per the airlines, Hattons had taken a slightly different approach with a grovelly email plus say a £20 voucher towards another purchase on their site, this thread would have had quite the legs, we won’t know.  Of course, we don’t know how many people were effected and hence the economics to Hattons of any such proposal.  

 

However, I reckon a lot of people reading who fear being in the same situation might look more favourably on the situation if they can see how they would be treated if the same situation, for whatever reason, arose in the future.  As with so many things, its not how you do when things go well but how you deal with an adverse situation that matters in customer relations.

 

David

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After Rocketgate who would you recommend I pre-order the Dapol Manor from ? Hattons or my friendly local model shop?

 

When I first dealt with Hattons their advertisements said that they never advertise anything that is not in stock because pre-ordering is a logistical nightmare.

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Last week there was a mixup when I ordered some pre-owned items that when they went to retrieve from stock were not available.  The store advised me of this and refunded the cost of the items but did not adjust for the additional postage cost of the items unable to supply.  Normally I accept and do not voice my thoughts, but decided to request a recalculation of the postage cost.  The store responded with a code for a discount on postage on my next order.  As I regularly purchase from the store the code was used within a few days and saved me a few dollars. I always find the staff friendly, courteous and very helpful and while I understand the angst felt by some I feel that some appears to be an over reaction. 

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If someone has waited 38 years for Hornby to re-introduce the 'Rocket' set, pre-orders one, the order is accepted and by the time he finds out that it is out of stock he cannot get it anywhere else it is reasonable to expect him to be upset.

 

Despite this I expect that Hornby will be supplying some more 'Rocket' sets soon and then everyone will be happy.

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Maybe theirs a big lesson for Hornby in this - the limited edition Rocket would probably have been better offered as a Hornby Club item but then their Collectors Club is either deliberately poor in its offerings or simply badly run with absolutely nothing to tempt the majority of modellers to join once those who wanted the SECR H got their order on.

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