DK123GWR Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I am not sure if this is the right subforum, but I can't see a better place for it. Where would the best place to look for cheaper models of 1st generation DMUs be. I am particularly interested in the Thames Valley area. My research so far suggests that the following regularly operated in this area: 101 104 108 117 119 121 As well as a few of the following: 115 118 122 Hornby do not currently produce models of these (unless I'm blind), and the Dapol and Bachmann models are above the price that I would be willing to pay. Where can I find models of these on the second hand market (Ebay obviously, but is there anywhere else)? What are the best* manufacturers to look for? As mentioned, I am looking at the Thames Valley around the 1980s (possibly stretching into the early 1990s) so the liveries that I am looking for will largely be blue/grey and NSE. Thank you in advance for any advice. *Any lack of detail on older models will not be an issue - they will fit right in to my existing 1980s/90s rolling stock. I am looking for a model which is likely to run well (or at least could be made to without too much work and after a conversion to DCC) and is recogniseable as that class (although I can't really tell the difference between similar types such as the 117 and 118, certainly not at a distance). As long as it meets these two conditions, price will determine which is best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmail Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Hattons currently have some Dapol 121's for £79.00 https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000396/1000588/1000673/0/dapol_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_dmus/prodlist.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, DK123GWR said: I Hornby do not currently produce models of these (unless I'm blind), and the Dapol and Bachmann models are above the price that I would be willing to pay. Where can I find models of these on the second hand market (Ebay obviously, but is there anywhere else)? Realistically you only have one choice, second hand Lima. You’ll find the 121, 101/117 available in blue/blue grey/ NSE and regional railways schemes. NSE on the 101 was a late release, so not many around and they tended to command higher values second hand. The 121 and101 subsequently joined the Hornby Railroad range with improved mechanisms. The 117 centre car isn’t common either, so 3 car sets or separate centre cars can also be higher priced. The 117 was certainly available in blue and blue grey, I can’t recall NSE being released, almost certainly not on the centre car. The other option for a DMU would be the Hornby 110 in blue/blue grey but not common in Thames valley. Finding the above cheap? Facebook marketplace, Gumtree, those sort of platforms. Obviously there’s no ebay/retail type cover if it’s a lemon. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 The 104 is an easy conversion from the Hornby 110. For the 119, Craftsman did a conversion kit to fit the Lima 117 which can sometimes be found at exhibitions or toy fairs as well as Ebay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 Yes, Lima will be your best bet here. Good models for their time. Worth pointing out too that the WR had a great liking for hybrid units. You will sometimes be able to pick up one element of a DMU quite cheaply because it is not complete with the rest of the unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK123GWR Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Yes, Lima will be your best bet here. Good models for their time. Worth pointing out too that the WR had a great liking for hybrid units. You will sometimes be able to pick up one element of a DMU quite cheaply because it is not complete with the rest of the unit. Thank you. I'd been planning on a bit of mix and match anyway having seen photos so this is definitely an option. I'll just have to make sure I remember to buy power cars as most of the individual unnits for sale are dummys. Failing this, how much work would be required to replace a regular bogie with a motorised one? It's a bit frustrating that for every cheap Lima product you find on Ebay there seem to be three Bachmann ones, even when searching for 'Lima'. Does anybody know a way to get around this, or is it just the price you have to pay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, DK123GWR said: Thank you. I'd been planning on a bit of mix and match anyway having seen photos so this is definitely an option. I'll just have to make sure I remember to buy power cars as most of the individual unnits for sale are dummys. Failing this, how much work would be required to replace a regular bogie with a motorised one? It's a bit frustrating that for every cheap Lima product you find on Ebay there seem to be three Bachmann ones, even when searching for 'Lima'. Does anybody know a way to get around this, or is it just the price you have to pay? eBay listing is cr*p. I'm not sure if that is eBay's fault (poor algorithms) or sellers who know nothing about what they are selling. Probably both! It may help if you put some + in your search e.g. Lima+00+diesel. Motorising a dummy involves a lot of chopping or use of a "spud" type bogie. Those have become a bit scarce (and expensive) now. Given your budget restrictions, if you can find some non-motorised coaches that represent powered units rather than unpowered trailers, make them up into units that you can couple to a powered model to make up a longer train. So long as you do not have any severe gradients on your layout, a powered DMU should be able to haul/propel an unpowered model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK123GWR Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said: eBay listing is cr*p. I'm not sure if that is eBay's fault (poor algorithms) or sellers who know nothing about what they are selling. Probably both! It may help if you put some + in your search e.g. Lima+00+diesel. Motorising a dummy involves a lot of chopping or use of a "spud" type bogie. Those have become a bit scarce (and expensive) now. Given your budget restrictions, if you can find some non-motorised coaches that represent powered units rather than unpowered trailers, make them up into units that you can couple to a powered model to make up a longer train. So long as you do not have any severe gradients on your layout, a powered DMU should be able to haul/propel an unpowered model. I'll just do that. I'm not worried about gradients as I don't have the space. Even if I did, we are talking about a section of 'Brunel's billiard table'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, DK123GWR said: Failing this, how much work would be required to replace a regular bogie with a motorised one? A lot of work. The floor mouldings are different, and fixing the bogie side frames to a ‘spud’ also not particularly easy, partly due to the plastic used for the Lima bogies. If cost is a significant element, by the time you’ve bought a replacement motor bogie, you’re likely better off waiting for a Lima unit on eBay etc as it will be cheaper. On eBay just type in ‘Lima DMU’ and they’ll all be there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Replica Railways offer a low profile power unit which may suit some conversions. Office probably closed during lock down however. http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/ I wouldn't give up on Bachmann or Dapol either (and you need Bachmann if a 108 is a priority). I obtained a s/h 105 two car set for £70 'as new' just two months ago, a find in a small model shop. They are out there, or will be when normal opportunity to move about and search the shelves resumes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Ive seen Hornby 3 car 101s new for 69.99 the other day but cant for the life of me remember where Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Not really Thames Valley area but the Hornby 110s are nice and cheap on the secondhand market. Some got to London on Great Eastern metals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Here's a 104 I did many years ago from a Hornby 110 with only a little plasticard, filler and a file: 7 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskra Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Hereford models have some going pretty cheap but from memory they were mainly 105’s and 101’s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: eBay listing is cr*p. I'm not sure if that is eBay's fault (poor algorithms) or sellers who know nothing about what they are selling. Probably both! It may help if you put some + in your search e.g. Lima+00+diesel. Motorising a dummy involves a lot of chopping or use of a "spud" type bogie. Those have become a bit scarce (and expensive) now. Given your budget restrictions, if you can find some non-motorised coaches that represent powered units rather than unpowered trailers, make them up into units that you can couple to a powered model to make up a longer train. So long as you do not have any severe gradients on your layout, a powered DMU should be able to haul/propel an unpowered model. Or get a Heljan DPU to pull unpowered units - they often ran coupled to units , and were available new down to £59 at one stage. I defy you to find a limit to the amount of unpowered units you could hang on the back of one of them - will pull a house down! 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2020 Lima did do a whole three car 117 in NSE as I remember seeing it and nearly buying one but was put off by the poor livery application (the wrongly dimensioned window behind the cab put the stripe chevrons out of kilter) and both driving cars being DMBS although with cutting and shutting, removing the other Brake accommodation was doable The 101 with some extra pick ups fitted was superb for it's time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, John M Upton said: Lima did do a whole three car 117 in NSE as I remember seeing it and nearly buying one but was put off by the poor livery application (the wrongly dimensioned window behind the cab put the stripe chevrons out of kilter) and both driving cars being DMBS although with cutting and shutting, removing the other Brake accommodation was doable The 101 with some extra pick ups fitted was superb for it's time. ISTR the NSE 117 came out about the same time as the Regional Railways version although the latter seems more common now. I agree about the 101, not much a little detailing won't fix: Edit: This thread has prompted me to get this out of the loft. It's fitted with a Black Beetle which runs nicely now I've oiled it. I will dcc it later so I can run it on my layout. Edited May 9, 2020 by giz 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Half-full Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 101 - Lima or Hornby (NSE Lima only) - or DC Kit 104 - Convert from a Hornby 110 108 - Bachmann or DC Kit (if you can find one) 117 - Lima - will need one of the DMBS' cut about to produce a DMS using a spare TC shell or moulding from Silver Fox 119 - Silver Fox overlays for LIma 117 (or Craftsman kit if you can find one) 121 - Lima or Hornby (or Dapol for a modern take on it) As well as a few of the following: 115 - convert from a Lima 117 - no kit that Im aware of 118 - convert from a Lima 117 - no kit that Im aware of 122 - Dapol, or convert from a Lima 121/117 or Hornby 121 eBay is your best bet, for all of the above, or possibly Facebook market place (I dont use Facebook but have heard of deals on there) For the Dapol units, Hattons has some cheap at the moment Edited May 9, 2020 by Half-full Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2020 Don't forget a lot of 117's were sacrificed to become cut and shut 121's and with Craftsman conversion parts, plenty of other DMU's as well. Ironically Lima sacrificed the 117 moulds to make their RTR 121 towards the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 also, if you are any good with a bit of cut and shut, the Hornby 110 can give you a lot of other dmu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 Not aware of 104s working out of Paddington, or anywhere south of the Birmingham area; 117/8 were the most common. You might want to look at kits for converting mk1s into 123s as well; they were used on the Oxford service around your time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Not aware of 104s working out of Paddington, or anywhere south of the Birmingham area; 117/8 were the most common. You might want to look at kits for converting mk1s into 123s as well; they were used on the Oxford service around your time. In their final days some of the ex Gospel Oak - Barking NSE livery sets moved to the Thames Line: https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-104/operations-later Here's one at the rear of a mixed set: Edited May 9, 2020 by giz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 5 hours ago, meatloaf said: Ive seen Hornby 3 car 101s new for 69.99 the other day but cant for the life of me remember where Green and blue 3 car Hornby 101s for 70 quid at Hereford Models, click here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, giz said: In their final days some of the ex Gospel Oak - Barking NSE livery sets moved to the Thames Line: https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-104/operations-later Here's one at the rear of a mixed set: Well, wontcha just look at that! Never even knew they'd got to Gospel Oak! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexAshton Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Back in the early 1980's we were able to organise a club trip to Didcot and Pendon on a Buxton 104. It caused quite a stir at Didcot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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