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30368's Workbench SR Loco's with a bit of LNER


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Posted (edited)

Our first year at Buxton and we have decided to sample The Buxton International Festival. It has been really very, very good. We attended a recital performed by Sarah Connolly last week, she was absolutely fabulous. Much more to see this week.

 

Meanwhile 30398 is now finished and ready for painting but before doing so I thought that it might be nice to pose each of my late Drummond 4-4-0's in front of Basingstoke (a work in progress) shed.

 

S11, L12 and D15. The S11 and L12 are both constructed from T9 kits with about the same amount of scratch building. The D15 is a PDK kit and very good it is too.

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS Just noticed that the S11 is not sitting on chassis correctly - not screwed down. In the paint shop now.

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Posted (edited)

Have now completed the water cart tender for the S112.

 

The kit supplies a white metal casting which had been assembled to create the main body by the previous owner of the kit. The bogies have been assembled with Gibson 14mm 10 spoke wheels. The kit also supplied some really fine castings for the brake hangers and blocks and the actuation gear including a brake cylinder. Again really first class castings.

 

The coal rail extenders were adapted from unused parts from my Judith Edge B9 etch, they do the job very well.

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673468191_IMG_6623(2).JPG.864bcde7578881a3e514469a3230ca68.JPG

 

You will spot, I'm sure, that I omitted to fit the pipe connected to the vacuum reservoir, now fitted. So its off to the paint shop and completion of both loco and tender.

1749327956_IMG_6625(2).JPG.cd81c17c22ed44893cd34d93378029c9.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

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Posted (edited)

30398 has returned from it's final overhaul at Eastleigh and is being checked over at Basingstoke, well thats the story......it has its 70D shedplate attached.

 

Still a little more painting, light weathering and adjustment to complete. I am very pleased with Micro Sol/Set it makes such a difference to lining with transfers. The sticky tape boiler bands are also an improvement on brass oversize bands so I am a convert.

 

Bogie ride hight needs adjusting.

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I need to brush off the dust!

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Thanks for all the positive comments. The loco looks better in the metal than the pictures that seem to emphasis every minor blemish! Bogie and weight balance needed a fair amount of adjustment, 4-4-0s always tricky to achieve reasonable traction. I had to add more lead under the cab to balance out the very heavy whitemetal smokebox.

 

A few more snapshots.

Coupling rod needs reversing!

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This side rod is fluted and the rifht way around but you can't se it!

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840969428_IMG_6641(2).JPG.a6230a28d530e00fc3ed713b47f257a2.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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I plan to start building my Proscale V2 kit shortly (lots of difficulties with this kit apparantly) but before doing so I will paint and line my D15, built a few years back from a PDK kit. The mechanism runs very well after some careful addition of lead ballast. It will be 30465, the last survivor.

 

30398 passes Basingstoke shed yard on a Salisbury local. I know, no headcode discs....

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From the other side.

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D15 ready for lining out and numbering. Some paint to apply to the chassis and the buffer beams.

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Posted (edited)

Brief update on the D15. This final Drummond class were big for a 4-4-0 almost as large as a 4-6-0 due to the long coupled wheelbase and big boiler.

 

 

A few more pics

 

 

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Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Posted (edited)

Final Drummond 4-4-0 update. D15 is now complete. The kit was a 70th birthday present from Mrs B and was built in early 2018. I have only been shamed into painting and lining it as a result of building the S11.

 

465 runs very, very well.

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1457401714_IMG_6660(2).JPG.94653efa39d833d26e975d52031b3b81.JPG

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Lastly all three of them.

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And now onto the V2.......

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

IMG_6656 (2).JPG

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Asssuming that you've used transfer lining, you've done very well to get the curves around the splashers and cab to look so good.

 

That really is a very imposing 4-4-0, presumably the most powerful of Drummond's several efforts.

 

John.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Asssuming that you've used transfer lining, you've done very well to get the curves around the splashers and cab to look so good.

 

Hi John,

 

Many thanks for your comments. I use Modelmaster and Fox. One problem with the Modelmaster transfers, which I think is now solved, is the variation in width and alignment with the corner curves - together, I should add, with my eyesight! I am fairly pleased with the appearance of the D15 lining but there are some issues with colour variation and alignment. Overall though I think it looks pretty good.

 

Indeed the D15's were Mr Drummonds most powerful 4-4-0 being 3P under the BR power classification. They were also fleet of foot with fairly long travel valves and they certainly look the part!

 

I am also pleased with the way this loco runs having very good power pickup and good traction. The PDK kit is recommended.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Richard B

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Hi ya Manna,

 

I might well do! My preference at present is to use much weathering powder and then gently remove with cotton buds and similar so that:

 

1. The powders light abbrasive effect improves the gloss of the cleaned areas but leaves the faintest trace of the cleaning marks.

2. The weathering powder remains trapped around all those parts (clack valves, handrail knobs etc) that a (1950s) cleaner would not bother with.

 

Follow that with some staining for oilly crude build up - under boiler from the motion - for example, and thats it.

That's the theory but then again I might leave it as it is.

 

The next job is the Pro-scale V2 kit which, I have been warned, is a bit of a devil to build. It may take some time given all the build reports from the 1990's when the kit was released.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard b

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13 hours ago, 30368 said:

Hi ya Manna,

 

I might well do! My preference at present is to use much weathering powder and then gently remove with cotton buds and similar so that:

 

1. The powders light abbrasive effect improves the gloss of the cleaned areas but leaves the faintest trace of the cleaning marks.

2. The weathering powder remains trapped around all those parts (clack valves, handrail knobs etc) that a (1950s) cleaner would not bother with.

 

Follow that with some staining for oilly crude build up - under boiler from the motion - for example, and thats it.

That's the theory but then again I might leave it as it is.

 

The next job is the Pro-scale V2 kit which, I have been warned, is a bit of a devil to build. It may take some time given all the build reports from the 1990's when the kit was released.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard b

G'Day Richard b

 

Yep got to have a bit of dirt on a Steam engine.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing a Pro-Scale V2 being built, just don't ask Tony Wright for advice, he'll say 'bin it'.

 

manna

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Posted (edited)

Well it just so happens that I have just started researching and then planning the build of the Pro-Scale V2 kit. It came with a two stage gearbox and a complete set of very old insulated Romford wheels. They have the right number of spokes but are coarse compared to Markit wheels so I may change them.

 

I have received lots of advice on this kit which seems to be mainly negative however not scarry enough to put me off, not yet anyway.... Thanks to everyone who has donated there experiences with this kit including Tony W and Woodcock29 (Andrew) who took the trouble to supply a scanned copy of the instructions and copies of the many articles on this kit. Thanks.

 

Apart from the wheels I am also considering a high level gearbox and coreless motor now that Chris and his family have recovered from Covid.

 

All ready to make a start...

907582608_IMG_6664(2).JPG.1757d8a68f813e79a091513b412aadb5.JPG

 

I will probably solder the axleboxes to the frames to convert to a solid frame and will align it all in my Poppy jig. I agree with Tony Wright's view that sprung/compensated chassis can lead to many complications, that's not to say that its wrong to build the chassis in this way just a personal preference.

10062768_IMG_6665(2).JPG.24a5f432e659de28a6021e82771d770b.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Take care with the coupling rods, as supplied they have to be riveted together at the knuckle joint - but if you do this forming the rivet will push the two halves of the rod apart slightly, altering the distance between the holes. Some material has to be removed from one of the rod halves to avoid this. If you check the rods in the Poppy jig you should be OK though.

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Thanks Michael, will do.

 

The "etch" for the frames is, I suspect, not an etch at all but, given it is almost 1mm thick, has been punched out. All the slots and edges on the mainframes have a lip that requires cleaning off if the chassis is to be assembled accurately. This adds to the workload but will create a very robust chassis. One downside of this is that the inside width of the frames is only 9mm (also due to the axleboxes adding width that needs to be compensated for by closing up the fames) so the motor will have to be above the frames and require a two stage gearbox. This is not a problem with a large locomotive.

 

I used a piece of scrap of the correct thickness to position the axlebox in the "hornguides" and then tacked these to the frame. I had already scribed the axle centre line on the frames to double check the location of the axle centre. All of the boxes were similarly tacked. I sould add that the punching lip was removed from the frame edge else the axle centre would be too low.

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The frames were then placed in the Poppy Jig and checked. Only one axle box need some adjustment. When all was square, the frames were removed from the jig and the boxes soldered to the frames making sure that nothing moved.

634950124_IMG_6670(2).JPG.3863bd0a57c7dae903a4b5dfb89db681.JPG

 

Frames with two of the cross members trial fitted. I intend to prepare a series of frame overlays to add all the rivet detail that is missing from the frames.

2110944231_IMG_6672(2).JPG.e87323b828f056bccc0c0f2092374361.JPG

 

I painted one of the Romford drivers supplied with the kit to see how "bad" they looked. Not too bad so I may well use these wheels.

34459868_IMG_6671(2).JPG.dca64201940dd0ab1efc36fc4d82e09a.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

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I think that's the best way to deal with these frames (they are etched by the way), in the early days I tried building the Proscale kits with the springs supplied but these were very stiff and only allowed limited movement. Most of the ones I have built (mainly P2s and A4s) have been rigid since.

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The frames have had the scratchbuilt overlay's fitted and have been assembled within the frame jig and soldered.

 

Ready for soldering. The slots for the crossmembers needed a good deal of fettling.

1806572841_IMG_6675(2).JPG.917120ae1924f0c33f3167732be43795.JPG

 

 

All soldered.

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I see that the far overlay needs a little more cleaning up. I have ordered replacement cylinders and crossheads so I will await delivery and checking the fit before soldering up the rear support bracket and motion bracket.

1955393921_IMG_6679(2).JPG.4b8062de4a47b500e73aec2638afda14.JPG

 

I have also ordered a 1230C HP Coreless motor and Hiflier Gearbox from Chris at Highlevel Kits. The ratio will be 45:1.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Did a bit more work on the chassis. I have identified the need for a further overlay at the front of the frames over the leading pony wheel. The support bracket for the running plate and reverser also needed some work to bring it in line with the prototype.

 

As you can see, the original slot on the left is nothing like the part filed version on the right - much closer to prototype.

1061249965_IMG_6680(2).JPG.feaef7e4a3c80f5f2f3b88eb500dbadd.JPG

 

The rear frame has been bent to the profile ensuring that it is equal. This can be soldered up now because the rear pony is a pivoted from the centre of the trailing lower crossmember.

827647390_IMG_6683(2).JPG.25c34800ef81572cad96f18fd5084ba5.JPG

 

Motion bracket and reverser bracket soldered in position.

471972925_IMG_6685(2).JPG.33af1698e6986717386a6eaa54755bae.JPG

 

I have filled the half etched bend mark on the rear frame ,with siolder, needs a little more.

541660157_IMG_6684(2).JPG.4b8aee03fcf3f62d8cf8802863bf3e10.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

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And I was so pleased with the look of the motion plate fitting so nicely in the slot provided in the mainframes except that is the wrong location! Whats more there is no location provided! I know, I was warned! So back to the drawing to locate the motion plate in its correct position and then cut a shallow slot to locate the plate flush with the top of the frames. The motion pivot point is in the correct location now, much closer to the cylinders. The location slot provided in the frames is 10.5mm too far back according to the Isinglass drawing.

 

I have discarded the Romford driving axles supplied with the kit since they appear to be oversize. Markits axles fit perfectly in the axleboxes.

 

On a happier note, the parts ordered from Wizard Models (I intend to use Comet LNER cylinders and Markits crossheads.) and the motor and gearbox from Highlevel Kits. Great sevice from both and its great to see Chris back to his former glory.

 

The remains of the bottom portion of the motion plate is fitted to the slot provided. 10.5mm forward of that is the top part of the motion plate in its new shallow slot ready for soldering.

1000263203_IMG_6687(2).JPG.640a4141c29f2814883fc3b386a24efa.JPG

 

Lots of goodies arrived today the big coreless motor and hiflier gear box on the left. You may well ask what a set of Comet GW tender axleboxs  have been purchased? The springs will be used to "support" the driving wheels - no springs are provided.

1311425409_IMG_6686(2).JPG.4c5f6e764b1b382e853679927daad3f8.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

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I usually drill holes in the frames (or better still etch them first) where the link pivot is. A wire through these holes locates the motion bracket accurately, regardless of where the kit designer might have slotted the frames. There are however a few locos where this is a bit difficult (the V2 might be one of them) because the link pivot coincides with a wheel tyre.

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18 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

There are however a few locos where this is a bit difficult (the V2 might be one of them)

 

Hi Michael,

 

Yes agree, a good suggestion but as you say, in the case of the V2, it does foul the wheel. I have marked the centres on the frames - you can just see them- and aligned the link pivot hole visually.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Thanks Michael. I have used that technique before and it works well.

 

As mentioned, I am using Markits LNER style crosshead/piston rod which uses a tube that doubles as a piston gland when soldered to the face of the cylinder. The cylinders are Comet LNER type. So its a bitza loco!

 

I have used the slidebar etch that comes with the kit. The whole set up needs careful assembly due largely to the differing manufacturers used. The carried out the following alterations:

 

1. Because the slidebar etch has a slot on the outer limb but not the inner, the Markits crosshead (as always, lovely engineering) is designed for slidebars having a slot back and front it needs to have the back face reduced. The crosshead then fits into the slidebar slot at the front and is retained by the plain rear slidebar.

 

2. The Markits piston rod and rod tube needs to be shortened by about 2.5mm.

 

3. The kit instructions come with no guidance as to how far the slidebars should project from the cylinder face so I trial fitted the connecting rod to the crosshead and checked the stroke of the crosshead. The prototype has the slidebar end up against the motion bracket casting. I found that if 1mm protrudes from the inside of the cylinder face then the stroke is correct.

 

Frames now painted, showing the jury rig to confirm that the slidebar location can accomodate the cylinder stroke. The Markits and Comet parts all work very well together.

IMG_6688.JPG.b6a32cdf27cd394047b8a90fbb052e51.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The Comet cylinders go together well but aligning everything in the frame slots is a bit of a devil. Still railway modeling wouldn't be fun if it was easy.....

 

One feature of the ProScale frames mentioned earlier is they are very narrow. The High Level gearbox will fit with 1mm or so clearance. I assume that this was done to make room for the sprung chassis? Thsi results in significant sideplay which will require at least 2 insulating washers behind each wheel.

 

The combination of Markits crosshead assembly and Comet cylinders seems to work well, operation in the slidbars is very very smooth.

 

Cylinder front with slidebars assembled.

1082773283_IMG_6689(2).JPG.566330a38b0db7b280112b21ad1ed421.JPG

 

Cylinders soldered in position so next step will complete cyinder assembly and then on to the valvegear.

1865376558_IMG_6692(2).JPG.5ae73cc12c2c9af7b61b3ace0d7098d9.JPG

 

I've made some alterations and additions to the pony truck to bring it a little closer to the prototype.

151477707_IMG_6691(2).JPG.bb5c065adbc218dbac3fb4afac52a1a2.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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