locomotive kits 30368's Workbench SR Loco's with a bit of LNER

[30368]

Jack's Hornby Flying Scotsman train set arrived today - tempted to open it and play to check that it all works ok. Wouldn't be right though.

 

Onother issue with the S15 kit is the relationship between the white metal running plate and the brass frames. The running plate sits too high, the tops of the wheels should be hidden by the running plate valance, indeed the S15's did have a very tiny splasher. To drop the running plate I have removed material from the underside of the running plate casting so that the frames fit more accurately. Also the flashing on the edge of the running plate casting has to be removed and as a result, unless you are lucky, the running plate edge that extends over the valance will be lost in places. So I have removed this edging and cleaned up the edge of the casting with green stuff. I will add some 5 thou brass overlays to the top of the running plate casting to restore the edging.

 

Remove about 1mm from the areas indicated so that the brass frames fit closer to the running plate.

 

Ready for cleaning up after the Green stuff has been applied.

 

Ready for the two captive nuts to be soldered in position and the overlays to be fitted.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Richard B

Edited November 22, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

Good day.

Running plate casting fitted to chassis and after the removal of material on the underside sits about 1mm lower so worth the effort.

 

One good thing about white metail kits, apart from the excellent traction, is that progress is rapid. Boiler temporarily fitted.

 

 

There are two motion plates supplied with the S15 kit. One suitable for H and N15s and one for the S15. Oddly, the S15 plate is designed to sit on top of the frames with a resultant raising of the running plate thus undoing my earlier work! so I have modified the S15 style motion plate so that it fits flush with the top of the frames.

 

 

S15 motion plate on the left, marked out and I have started to file away the material so that it fits flush with the frame tops. H/N15 style motion plate on the right.

 

S15 motion plate is now ready for bending and further modification of which more later.

 

The SEF N15 now has a motor and gearbox so I may switch build to the N15 to catch up with the S15.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited November 24, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

Started to assemble the SEF N15 frames - very much finer and more delicate than the DJH frames of the S15. I have also taken still more material from the underside of the S15 running plate to lower the running plate and boiler down to something approaching the prototype. The Urie S15 seems to have a smaller boiler than the N15, in fact it is the same diameter but is mounted much lower in the frames.

 

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited November 24, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

Completed the overlays for the front part of the S15's running plate. I have also dug out my DJH S15 30499. I think this was one of the first, if not the first, kit that I built. It runs ok but is very rough in places. It could do with a trip to the works.

 

 

You can just see the elusive filler lid for the front sand box. The lid appears to be made of sheet steel which swivels about a securing bolt to gain access to the box.

 

Good old 30499. There are so many things that need improvement on this model, just look at that horrid transfer application on the tender! I modified my kit and fitted AWS, the battery box is on the drivers side of the running plate. 30499 was the last Urie S15 that I saw in steam (December 1963), in Winchester Yard (car park now) on the front of a freight bound for Basingstoke. It seemed to be in good nick with steam blowing off the safety valves and it had an N15 boiler fitted as I recall. 30499 ended up with a six wheeled tender but on the occasion related, had an eight wheeled tender fitted. I shall probably fit the "new" S15 with the tender originally built for my Drummond S11 which was so heavy, the poor old S11 could hardly pull it.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

I see that the Dapol 5100/6100 2-6-2T is available, I have just ordered a 6100 in later BR condition, as I remember them at Reading and Basingstoke. A 6100 was often on 70D. I remember my very first day as an apprentice on BR, my train was a Southampton Terminus train which called at Eastleigh where I would start my appreticeship. It was hauled by a 6100 from Reading and then came off the train and onto the shed. A Maunsell N class took the train on. That was September 2nd 1963 a very different railway and a in some ways a very different me!

 

Cylinder construction today. The DJH arrangement consists of a white metal stretcher to which the two cylinder casting are fitted. Despite the kits age, the quality of the castings is first class.

 

The slide bars are brass extrusions bent in a loop and fit around a cast "rails" on the inside of the cylinders. Since the security and accuracy of the slidebars is crucial to smooth running I decided to solder these in position using low melt solder. When I am using this solder I usually switch the iron off since it retains sufficient heat to solder and reduces the risk of damaging white metal castings.

 

L/H cylinder ready for soldering, I have already tinned the slidebars with 180 degree solder. R/H cylinder soldered although I will have to dig out the solder in the top R/H corner to enable the cylinder to fit the stretcher,

 

Avoided extra work with the second cylinder on the right.

 

All done! The slidebars have been reduced in legnth, 19mm from the front face of the cylinders.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[30368]

Continueing with the valve gear today. Connecting rods are connected! To the crossheads. The slide bars required a fair bit of fettling before the crossheads would run smoothly, particularly on the firemans side.

 

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard b

 

[John Tomlinson]

On 25/11/2021 at 14:14, 30368 said:

Completed the overlays for the front part of the S15's running plate. I have also dug out my DJH S15 30499. I think this was one of the first, if not the first, kit that I built. It runs ok but is very rough in places. It could do with a trip to the works.

 

 

You can just see the elusive filler lid for the front sand box. The lid appears to be made of sheet steel which swivels about a securing bolt to gain access to the box.

 

Good old 30499. There are so many things that need improvement on this model, just look at that horrid transfer application on the tender! I modified my kit and fitted AWS, the battery box is on the drivers side of the running plate. 30499 was the last Urie S15 that I saw in steam (December 1963), in Winchester Yard (car park now) on the front of a freight bound for Basingstoke. It seemed to be in good nick with steam blowing off the safety valves and it had an N15 boiler fitted as I recall. 30499 ended up with a six wheeled tender but on the occasion related, had an eight wheeled tender fitted. I shall probably fit the "new" S15 with the tender originally built for my Drummond S11 which was so heavy, the poor old S11 could hardly pull it.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

I'm fascinated by this project, although sadly never saw any of these locos in proper service.

 

I have wondered, if it doesn't sound too heretical, if it would be possible to convert one of Hornby's Maunsell S15's to a Urie variant. I have some detailed drawings although they aren't that clear. The Urie running plate above the cylinders I take to be the same height as the Maunsell one, except the latter doesn't then drop a tad over the drivers. The Urie boiler IIRC has a pitch at 8'7'' rather than Maunsell at 9'0'', which I guess accounts for it being and looking a lot lower, with the deflectors being adjusted as well. Also the cabs are have the distinct roof rather than Maunsell's continuous curve.

 

FWIW I think your elderly 30499 really catches the character of the whole thing, but it will I'm sure be good to have two of them!

 

John.

[30368]

On 28/11/2021 at 14:20, John Tomlinson said:

I have wondered, if it doesn't sound too heretical, if it would be possible to convert one of Hornby's Maunsell S15's to a Urie variant.

 

Hi John,

 

Not at all, heritical thoughts are for religious zelots, this is a hobby! I think it is worth looking at certainly. The boiler and running gear is much the same and so is the tender (assuming original Urie pattern) the issue that would make a conversion tricky is the boiler mounting, 2mm really shows at this scale. So you would have to remove all the running plate and cab and build a new running plate and cab although the latter is not too much of a problem indeed I might have a spare somewhere.....

Just a thought John, Hornby could have produced one given they have the Maunsell version so why have they not? Having said that the Urie S15 will probably be in the 2022 product announcement!

 

Continueing with the valvegear on what will probably be 30506 (with Drummond Tender) not much to show but lots of background work. Some alterations to the motion plate. The 1mm set screw head that supports the expansion link etc has been filed square and some rivet detail added although this area still needs cleaning up.

 

Another shot of 499 showing off its AWS equipment. Fine old girl.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited November 29, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

The DJH valvegear components are robust and fairly well formed. Some progress today but still more to do. Awaiting a 1mm Allan Key for the Markits return crank set screws.

 

I have used the soft iron rivets for the Combination Lever/piston valve rod joint and the CL to Union link joint. All the rest will be 1mm or 16BA set screws.

 

Basingstoke shedded S11 on a Salisbury stopper - I know, no headcode disks, will do eventually.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited November 29, 2021 by 30368

[Guest Jack Benson]

On 28/11/2021 at 14:20, John Tomlinson said:

 

I'm fascinated by this project, although sadly never saw any of these locos in proper service.

 

I have wondered, if it doesn't sound too heretical, if it would be possible to convert one of Hornby's Maunsell S15's to a Urie variant. I have some detailed drawings although they aren't that clear. The Urie running plate above the cylinders I take to be the same height as the Maunsell one, except the latter doesn't then drop a tad over the drivers. The Urie boiler IIRC has a pitch at 8'7'' rather than Maunsell at 9'0'', which I guess accounts for it being and looking a lot lower, with the deflectors being adjusted as well. Also the cabs are have the distinct roof rather than Maunsell's continuous curve.

 

FWIW I think your elderly 30499 really catches the character of the whole thing, but it will I'm sure be good to have two of them!

 

John.

Try looking at this thread 

 

StaySafe

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Jack Benson said:

Try looking at this thread 

 

StaySafe

 

Thanks for the reference to an interesting thread I hadn't come across before.

 

On the basis of his H15, the Urie S15 should be simpler, you don't need new wheels and provided you get the earlier version the tender is also correct.

 

Hmmmm....!

 

John.

[30368]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:44, John Tomlinson said:

On the basis of his H15, the Urie S15 should be simpler, you don't need new wheels and provided you get the earlier version the tender is also correct.

 

 

Thanks Jack for highlighting an interesting thread. The N15-H15 conversion look good for 30491, would not work on a Urie original though.

 

The big issue though remains the boiler mounting height - the Maunsell S15 is very like a small wheeled Maunsell N15 with the same boiler pitch. Not the case with Urie S15 - the chimney height of the respective versions tells the story. Having said that, have a go John, I would be very interested in the outcome.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by 30368

[30368]

Awaiting, of all things, a genuine Markits 1mm Allan Key to secure the return cranks so valve gear on hold.

 

Did further work on the running plate, adding the oil boxes for the leading and middle axles (the trailing is in the cab) which are really difficult to fit if the boiler is in place. I have also added pipe clamps for the clack and injector pipes to the running plate. All that remains is the lifting links for the reverser amd the reverser support. I also have to add an overlay in front of the running plate in front of the smokebox and some rivet detail in the same area.

 

John - Let me know if you want Urie cab parts and I will send them to you, assuming I can find them! PM me.

 

I still have to trim some of the running plate sections.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Richard B

 

[John Tomlinson]

Thanks for the kind offer of Urie cab parts.

 

I'll be keeping an eye open for a cheapish Hornby S15 on ebay first, and will see if I'm succesful!

 

John.

[30368]

21 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I'll be keeping an eye open for a cheapish Hornby S15 on ebay first

 

Good luck John, please keep me posted.

 

Today I mainly did boiler fitting.

 

Alignment and ensuring that all is square before soldering is critical. I found it easiest to solder the cab spectacle plate to the running plate and then ensure that the boiler was along the centre line of the running and spectacle plates. I had already drilled the required holes in the front of the spectacle plate for the reverser, gravity oil pipes to the cylinders and various cab controls to the whistle etc. I then soldered the base of the firebox to the running plate and then the top of the firebox to the spectacle plate top. Lastly I tacked the base of the smokebox to the running plate. The spokebox front was then superglued in place.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Edited December 3, 2021 by 30368

[Mallard60022]

On 02/12/2021 at 17:51, John Tomlinson said:

Thanks for the kind offer of Urie cab parts.

 

I'll be keeping an eye open for a cheapish Hornby S15 on ebay first, and will see if I'm succesful!

 

John.

I've got one that you could have at a reasonable price. Probably just run in and that's it. They are going for about 80£ at auction, bid price. 

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I've got one that you could have at a reasonable price. Probably just run in and that's it. They are going for about 80£ at auction, bid price. 

Phil

 

Many thanks and to Richard for the heads up.

 

I've sent you a pm.

 

John.

[30368]

1 hour ago, John Tomlinson said:

Many thanks and to Richard for the heads up.

 

Hi John,

 

Assuming that you go ahead and buy/convert. Give me a shout for the cab parts FOC.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

Continueing with the body, still awaiting delvery of parts that includes the 1mm Allan Key. Valve gear just needs assembling.

 

Cab now soldered in position, roof still needs some fettling to fit.

 

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

This morning I received my pack of bits including the official 1mm Allan Key so will return to the chassis work shortly.

 

I constructed the gravity oil pipes and covers today - I use very fine brass wire and a strip of thin brass strip to create these items.

 

The two oil pipes are pinned down by bluetac and then soldered to the brass sheet. It is far easier to handle curring the brass sheet to size after soldering. A fair dolop of solder which was cleaned off.

 

Oil pipes super glued in position. I have also assembled the reverser which should be fitted aftre the oil pipes. You can also see my Allan Key! I hope I am not becoming obsessed!

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[30368]

Another little problem has raised its head. The kit does not have the clack valve castings in the box. I have searched for the Markits items but to no avail so I have made my own from brass wire, crankpin nuts and brass washers. I assembled them on the brass wire using solder. The brass washers, used to represent the flange that secures the clack valve to the boiler was superglued to the body of the valve. They don't look too bad.

 

I use copper wire for most of my pipework, this is the firemans side of the boiler. Note the awkward bend behind the oil box and then back out to the running plate securing flange. The last item to fit is the clack valve.

 

All assembled on this side, I have managed to get the clack valve out of focus but it looks fine.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[Blandford1969]

Its  nice to see the horn cheek lubricator boxes on the running plate, so often missing. Are these just bits of brass? 

[30368]

37 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Are these just bits of brass? 

 

They are bits of whitemetal with a brass "lid". I usually use the brass Castings produced by Alan Gibson but have run out of the correct size. I will use some of the larger size (3 and 4 oil pipes) in the cab.

 

Added some of the boiler fittings. It really now is time to return to the chassis and fit the valvegear and brakes. Oh and some overlays for the large holes where the frame should be.

 

Better view of the clack valve!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[Jon4470]

4 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

They are bits of whitemetal with a brass "lid". I usually use the brass Castings produced by Alan Gibson but have run out of the correct size. I will use some of the larger size (3 and 4 oil pipes) in the cab.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

Thank you for that information - I didn’t realise that Alan Gibson do the oil pots. I will have to investigate.

 

I have started to add oil pots to my recent builds and have used a rectangle of thick plastikard topped with a thin piece as the lid. Then drilled three holes for pipes made from 5 amp fuse wire. They look ok (from a distance).

[30368]

I have spent a lot of time filing the frames to lower the motion plate in the frames so that the cylinders have the correct relationship to the running plate - the DJH S15 kit is good but the running plate is just too high resulting in a buffer beam that is too high and a large gap between the top of the cylinders and the running plate valance.

 

I have now filled in the large gap in the frames to allow for a motor mounting arrangement that is not used. The frames have now been painted. More copper pipework added to the boiler.

 

The frame stretcher added at the front of the frames raises the cylinder casting to bring it closer to the running plate. There is a running plate support bracket to be fitted to the frame "patch" but I will do this after I have made it (!) and when the body is fitted to the frames.

 

 

My goodness, this closeup shows that I have been using too coarse a file to clean off the casting flash around the washout plugs some of which still needs removal, will use a sharp modelling knife.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by 30368